Saluting a Chief?

[C/CMSgt]

So I'm a bit confused....


I recently attended a CAP activity. The Cadet Commander was a Chief. Due to the fact he was holding a Cadet Officer position, the cadets, NCOs AND Cadet Officers had to salute, brace and call him "Sir".

Is this the right way of doing things? I found it to be a bit.... wrong.

I just want to get your view/feel on this. Thanks!

[JoeTomasone]

You accord respect to the office but the courtesies to the grade...

So while the Chief is in the Chain of Command, it doesn't make the Chief an officer.

Same if you are a SM Lt Col in a unit commanded by a Major...   The Major still salutes the Lt Col, even though the Lt Col takes orders from the Major.

[Eclipse]

Yep - people get themselves in knots on stuff like this.  The answer is simple, the shoulder always wins.

[Pylon]

Due to the fact he was holding a Cadet Officer position, the cadets, NCOs AND Cadet Officers had to salute, brace and call him "Sir".

What concerns me more is why you mean by "brace"?  What exactly is bracing for an officer?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I quote the great Capt. Bill Winters... "We respect the rank not the man." that being said all officers should be saluted... this is a touchy subject yes because there is rank grade and position. All three refer to the same idea... a leadership position, but the rank is what is saluted not the position nor the grade. If it were grade Capt. would salute Capt. which in some places they do... but only if one Capt is in a position of leadership over the other... two flight commanders do not salute each other, but a Capt Squadron commander would be saluted by the Capt. flight commander. This has allways been a touchy subject that started by midshipmen in the British Royal Navy in the days they were at war with the Spanish. Midshipmen would have a higher position than the rest of the midshipmen in certain areas of the ship such as mess deck and quarters. Since then it has always been a question... but no longer should this be an issue. you salute the higher officer rank not grade or position.

[brasda91]

I quote the great Capt. Bill Winters... "We respect the rank not the man." that being said all officers should be saluted... this is a touchy subject yes because there is rank grade and position. All three refer to the same idea... a leadership position, but the rank is what is saluted not the position nor the grade. If it were grade Capt. would salute Capt. which in some places they do... but only if one Capt is in a position of leadership over the other... two flight commanders do not salute each other, but a Capt Squadron commander would be saluted by the Capt. flight commander. salute the higher officer rank not grade or position.

Good try, but incorrect.

Grade is a major step in the promotion structure or program while rank is grade adjusted for time. "Captain" or "major" are examples of grade; several individuals can have the same grade. Rank normally shows seniority (no two persons in a grade have the same rank - one is always senior to the other).
Bottom Line: The major difference between grade and rank is that grade is a major step in the promotion process. Rank is seniority between two people of the same grade.

You salute the grade, not the rank.

[lordmonar]

So I'm a bit confused....


I recently attended a CAP activity. The Cadet Commander was a Chief. Due to the fact he was holding a Cadet Officer position, the cadets, NCOs AND Cadet Officers had to salute, brace and call him "Sir".

Is this the right way of doing things? I found it to be a bit.... wrong.

I just want to get your view/feel on this. Thanks!

Well go with your gut.

It is wrong to treat the Chief as if he were an officer.....with the exception of in formation.....then your are saluting the postion not the individual standing in that position.

If he is having them call the room to attention or jump to side of the hall when he walks buy...that is wrong.

[raivo]

What concerns me more is why you mean by "brace"?  What exactly is bracing for an officer?

Moving against the wall and standing at attention as he passes by.

[shorning]

What concerns me more is why you mean by "brace"?  What exactly is bracing for an officer?

Moving against the wall and standing at attention as he passes by.

And why would one do this?  What purpose does it serve? 

[davidsinn]

What concerns me more is why you mean by "brace"?  What exactly is bracing for an officer?

Moving against the wall and standing at attention as he passes by.

And why would one do this?  What purpose does it serve?

My cadets don't even do that for me. That's rather dumb actually.

[Eclipse]

What concerns me more is why you mean by "brace"?  What exactly is bracing for an officer?

Moving against the wall and standing at attention as he passes by.

And why would one do this?  What purpose does it serve?

He hasn't read the legends page on the NHQ website?

[lordmonar]

What concerns me more is why you mean by "brace"?  What exactly is bracing for an officer?

Moving against the wall and standing at attention as he passes by.

And why would one do this?  What purpose does it serve?

You know....pumps that ego up! 

Gives you that sense of purpose.

I don't know where that comes from.  I have the hardest time trying to get my cadets to stop it.  Sure we tell them if you blocking the hallway to make room for ANYONE trying to move through.....I have been known to yell "make a hole" a time or two....but bracing up just because someone happens to be walking down the hall is Academy BS.

[mynetdude]

What concerns me more is why you mean by "brace"?  What exactly is bracing for an officer?

Moving against the wall and standing at attention as he passes by.

And why would one do this?  What purpose does it serve?

You know....pumps that ego up! 

Gives you that sense of purpose.

I don't know where that comes from.  I have the hardest time trying to get my cadets to stop it.  Sure we tell them if you blocking the hallway to make room for ANYONE trying to move through.....I have been known to yell "make a hole" a time or two....but bracing up just because someone happens to be walking down the hall is Academy BS.

I was told that cadets move against the wall because officers or persons of higher grade have higher priority when going through the halls but IMHO it shouldn't be about that if someone needs to get through it would just be a courtesy to let them through.

[SarDragon]

It's all a matter of technique.

Moving out of the way is one thing. Stiffly bracing up against a wall, or anything similar, is entirely different, and not necessary.

[mynetdude]

It's all a matter of technique.

Moving out of the way is one thing. Stiffly bracing up against a wall, or anything similar, is entirely different, and not necessary.

rhetorical question here then: why the heck is it practiced amongst the cadets if it is not necessary? I don't brace up to an officer higher grade than me, though I do acknowledge him/her as they pass by though.

[CadetProgramGuy]

It's all a matter of technique.

Moving out of the way is one thing. Stiffly bracing up against a wall, or anything similar, is entirely different, and not necessary.

rhetorical question here then: why the heck is it practiced amongst the cadets if it is not necessary? I don't brace up to an officer higher grade than me, though I do acknowledge him/her as they pass by though.

In fact National Cadet Programs, expressly forbids the "Hit the wall" routine that happens at encampments.   

And yes, once I find the page whre I found it, i will reference it.

**Well after 3 hours of looking, I give up on finding the reference.  I know it was not in a reg, I believe I saw it in the Encampment Myth's and Facts somewhere.  Oh Well **

[JoeTomasone]

In fact National Cadet Programs, expressly forbids the "Hit the wall" routine that happens at encampments.   

Now that I think of it, we had to do it at my cadet encampment in NYWG in 1983.

[NC Hokie]

It's all a matter of technique.

Moving out of the way is one thing. Stiffly bracing up against a wall, or anything similar, is entirely different, and not necessary.

rhetorical question here then: why the heck is it practiced amongst the cadets if it is not necessary? I don't brace up to an officer higher grade than me, though I do acknowledge him/her as they pass by though.

Because it's "hard kewl" and they want to be like the "real military."  Also, the academies do it, so that MUST make it okay for high school and middle school cadets.

Or, maybe it's just a few cadet officers looking to have their egos stroked.

[JayT]

If a Chief wants to be saluted, they should buck for their Mitchell.

[BillB]

Cadets hitting the wall has been around since my cadets days, and that's in the 1940's. It came from the military academy procedures and has stuck around since. Normally it's been used at encampments to develop a more military atmosphere. Does it serve a purpose?  No. Other than have a more plebe atmosphere for the new cadets. From my experiences, it soon wears off when the cadet is back at their squadron. Should it be abolished? Probably not since it reinforces the fact that CAP is the Auxiliary of the Air Force (more so for cadets than senior members) It's just part of the cadet program that may be an ueban legend, but it practiced widely in the cadet program.