Combat Control Orientation Course (CCOC)

[RogueLeader]

A CCOC will be held on Pope AFB on 19-25 July.  All cadets that have completed the Wright Bro, and are at least 15 years old and a Class 1 (unrestricted PT)  are encouraged to apply.

Any SM that has achieved TFO/1st LT or higher are also able to apply.
CCOC website

The above link is directly to the CCOC website.  Most of the vital information is there, but updates will be forthcoming.

Cost, as of right now is $150, it is likely to come down during the next month to maybe around $100.

This year , we will only accept 18 or 20 cadets and 2 Seniors as TAC Officers.

Selection will be held on 6 June 09. All personnel applying must attend in order to be considered.  All the appropriate forms are currently on the website.

More to follow.

[NIN]

Mmmm, I'm excited already. Can I wear 1Lt for the duration of the event?

I come with my own parachuting gear, even. Just put me in the Herk, I'll dead center the DZ for ya.

[RogueLeader]

LOL

The one thing that we don't attually do is jump, everything up until that point, though.

Sure you can wear 1 Lt, just fill out a CAPF 2, and select "Demotion" and 1st LT

If you get me your creds, I'll try to get you on the Bird, if possible.

[notaNCO forever]

 To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.

[RogueLeader]

From what I've been told, the CAP OIC loves flutter kicks for PT. I, I mean the XO loves to do The Motivator.

Forget that I said anything.

[MIKE]

If this isn't a legit NCSA, it's in the wrong section... Also, your abbreviation sucks.

[RogueLeader]

If this isn't a legit NCSA it's in the wrong section... Also, your abbreviation sucks.

My bad.  Some things I can't always change.  You have the power to do of it though.

Whats wong with the Abreviation?

I should also point out that this is a NCSA in Developement.

[DBlair]

Ohh... my Cadets are going to love this!

So, if I read this correctly, in order to apply as a participant they have to attend (at Pope AFB) on 6 June 09, or is this just for Staff/TAC officers?

[RogueLeader]

 Selection is requires for all applicants, which will be held at NCWG HQ on 6 June, which is in Burlington NC.

At Selection, a PT test will be adnministered, followed by a Uniform Inspection, and a Board of Review.  The Course Roster will be announced NLT 8 June 2009.  Payment must be paid NLT 20 June 2009.  Thr cost is the same for both Cadet and SM applicants.

[DC]

Its going to be mighty expensive for the cadets that are not located in or near NC to do that.. Getting to the activity is one thing, but going to a special selection board is a little too much, especially with the costs associated with travel these days.

Why not have the PT test administered at the squadron, and require the SQ/CC's John Hancock the prove the cadet passed, and with both a minimum age and rank set, assume that the cadets attending will be mature and able enough to attend..

Just an observation, but I think the seperate selection board will turn a lot of cadets (and/or their parents) away.

[RogueLeader]

Its going to be mighty expensive for the cadets that are not located in or near NC to do that.. Getting to the activity is one thing, but going to a special selection board is a little too much, especially with the costs associated with travel these days.

Above my level, not an option.

Why not have the PT test administered at the squadron, and require the SQ/CC's John Hancock the prove the cadet passed, and with both a minimum age and rank set, assume that the cadets attending will be mature and able enough to attend..

They do have to pass the PT Test at the Squadron as well as Selection. Part of the rational is that we only want the very best cadets going as to avoid making a huge disaster of this idea.  Right now, the Special tactics command is very excited about doing this to the point that Recruitment is willing to pay a bunch of money for it.  If there are "excessive" course failures and/or injuries, they can and will kill the program for the future. 

Just an observation, but I think the seperate selection board will turn a lot of cadets (and/or their parents) away.

Again, not my call, above my paygrade.

I even have to pay a fee, and I'm on the Staff.

[DBlair]

While I am all for the CCOC idea (I really think its a great idea) and I realize that these decisions are out of your control, I have to agree that this is something that will unfortunately keep it minimized to a Wing/Region activity rather than allowing it to grow to its full potential as a NCSA.

Why not do it like (from what I've heard) PJOC does with a fitness test upon arrival and if they fail, then they go home? Making sure the participants realize this will be the policy (perhaps with a signed statement of understanding) will prevent those who wouldn't pass the fitness standards from even bothering.

As I just factored from my location in Florida, the airfare would be a roundtrip cost of $352 per person (parents would most likely go along with their Cadet and so that cost is doubled) and from further distances it could be much more, then factor a car rental to get to the location from the airport and perhaps a hotel to stay a night or the weekend. Adding up the costs, this could get very expensive and with parents often getting frustrated with the unending costs of CAP, this could result in most people opting to go to other activities as all the above cost would just be to *apply* for the activity and not even for the actual activity itself.

While if this was the RM, then it would be easy as these costs would be covered by the military and so it wouldn't be a hassle, and perhaps this is the mindset of those from the military side of things, but to ask Cadets to spend several hundred or perhaps a thousand dollars just to apply for an event, kind of kills the idea for most.

I support this activity and I'll certainly present it to my Cadets and I'm sure they will be excited, but I do fear that the added cost will cause their parents to either say no or to tell them to pick a different special activity like PJOC.

As much as CCOC sounds like a blast, potentially spending a grand just to apply (and then spending that a second time if they are selected) is going to make many question if there are better uses for that money like finishing up a pilot's license, etc. I'm pretty sure cadets (i.e. their parents) are going to have a huge issue with this, especially for cadets from further distances. Just a point to consider.

I realize this is out of your control, but I'm mentioning all this just as a suggestion/perspective that perhaps you could pass along... I would love for this to grow into a NCSA, but at this point, the cost of attending a selection event just to apply seems like a major issue.

[RogueLeader]

I definately understand what you are saying.  I will certainly pass along your coments.  If it should come to pass that it is a full NCSA, we might go that route.  Right now, we are in the crawl stage.  That s why we are doing things pretty rigid in selection.  Provided we get a posative outcome, we will expand to allow for more Cadets. 

One of the reasons that we are being so strict with the PT tests and such is to be sure that we can do all that we can to ensure the highest percentage of graduates that pass the PAST test.  The AF is taking a very close look at this.  We want to be able to offer it to all of CAP.

As far as I know, if all goes well, the face to face selection will be going away to something similar to PJOC.  We all want it to get to that point.  There are also things that are going on that haven't been figured out yet.  Check the website as we will be adding more information as it developes.

[SAR-EMT1]

2 mile run and a swim back to back? ... now that will be adventurous for many cadets.

[NIN]

To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.

Who says you can't jump?

[DBlair]

2 mile run and a swim back to back? ... now that will be adventurous for many cadets.

I was noticing that too. With a minimum of 35 pushups in 2min, 50 situps in 2min, flexed arm hang, a 2mi run in less than 16'30", and a 200m swim in less than 10mins, this will certainly prove effective in seeking out those cadets who are truly physically fit. I kind of like the idea of having high standards like this as it seeks out those who are best prepared and also inspires others to get fit in order to attend such a great activity.

[DBlair]

To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.

Who says you can't jump?

Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?

[NIN]

As I just factored from my location in Florida, the airfare would be a roundtrip cost of $352 per person (parents would most likely go along with their Cadet and so that cost is doubled) and from further distances it could be much more, then factor a car rental to get to the location from the airport and perhaps a hotel to stay a night or the weekend. Adding up the costs, this could get very expensive and with parents often getting frustrated with the unending costs of CAP, this could result in most people opting to go to other activities as all the above cost would just be to *apply* for the activity and not even for the actual activity itself.

Why would mom/dad fly along?  I can't tell you how many people I've picked up at airports who arrived "sans parental units."    Heck, I had two cadets show up for AUSA a couple years ago, one took the train to DC from NJ, hopped the Yellow line from Union Station and appeared at my elbow in the middle of the DC convention center.  The other did exactly the same thing, but he flew into DCA and caught the Metro up to the convention center.  Neither had mom or dad along.

While if this was the RM, then it would be easy as these costs would be covered by the military and so it wouldn't be a hassle, and perhaps this is the mindset of those from the military side of things, but to ask Cadets to spend several hundred or perhaps a thousand dollars just to apply for an event, kind of kills the idea for most.

I don't know: you supply a (pardon the term) "kick ass" activity, they'll come.  Maybe not a lot, but they'll come. And if its Sierra Hotel enough, they'll come in droves.

[NIN]

Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?

Per CAPR52-16, parachuting is specfically disallowed as a cadet activity. Also per CAPR 60-1, CAP planes may not be used for parachuting.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to discern how much latitude you have in between those regulations.

[arajca]

To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.

Who says you can't jump?

Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?

IIRC, it's in CAPR 52-16 (Cadet Programs reg). Cadets cannot jump at CAP activites (or as a CAP acitivty), but Senior Members do not such a restriction...