Lights and Siren?

[raticate1999]

Can lights and sirens used on personal vehicles with CAP license Plates. Specifically New York State?

[Pylon]

Oh God No.

A)  New York State law restricts flashing lights/beacons and sirens to registered emergency vehicles or volunteer emergency responders with certification letter from their department chief.  CAP falls under none of these categories.  On your POV, it would be illegal to use any light other than yellow in NY.

B)  CAP never, ever has a need for emergency warning lights or sirens.  Ever.  We are not first responders.

C)  Emergency vehicle operators go through extensive training and screening in order to operate vehicles using lights and sirens.   It is a serious increase in risk and one must be very familiar with the serious responsibilities which come with operating an emergency response vehicle.   

D) Using lights/sirens also necessitates additional liability/motor vehicle insurance coverage (which CAP does not have and cannot extend to you in your POV).

E) If you are a volunteer firefighter or otherwise legitimately have lights on your POV or another vehicle, it is almost certainly a violation of the law to use it when responding for a CAP mission or other unrelated reasons to why you have the lights in the first place.

F) CAP doesn't need any more reason to be looked upon as "wannabes".

F) Subsection 1:  CAP regulations and most interpretations of the NYS V&T laws accept that you can use a yellow warning light on CAP or POVs for visibility reasons.  However, most of the time, this will come across as even more "wannabe".  Google the word "whacker".

G) This topic has been hashed and rehashed over and over here at CAPTalk.  Use the search tool to read more.  These points summarize quickly the main reasons (beside that it's illegal in NY) that you cannot and should not ever use emergency lights or sirens in relation to Civil Air Patrol business.

[notaNCO forever]

 CAP will not let you use them. My state was willing to let us use them, but CAP said no.

[JoeTomasone]

The only reason to have ANY kind of light on your vehicle is an amber light for cases in which you are on an airport driving on the taxiway/runway (air shows and UDF missions).    I have also used them during RECON exercises when a member was out of the vehicle taking pictures along a busy road (visibility again). 

And yes, restraint is called for.  A mag-mount rotator is fine, no need for the full light bar... 

[A.Member]

Can lights and sirens used on personal vehicles with CAP license Plates. Specifically New York State?

WTFO?!

[Stonewall]

Here is an entire 6 page discussion on the use of lights and sirens in CAP...  <<---Yes, click on that.

[Flying Pig]

Why would you #1?  But to answer, NO.  The public is practically against cops using lights and sirens to get somewhere.  Allowing some CAP guy to roll Code 3 to an ELT would put it over the edge.  Not to mention, when SM Jones smacks into some teenager going through an intersection and kills them, who is going to get blamed???  The Police. The media is going to briefly mention CAP, then go after the police for their Code 3 policy even thought they had nothing to do with it. Trust me dude....you dont want that kind of liability and responsibility as a private citizen.

[JAFO78]

Oh man, I guess I will have to take mine back to Sirenmart for a refund.

[Rob Sherlin]

  As Joe said, the amber ones can come in handy and are legal (I have a magnetic that I've used while changing a flat, or helping another poor stranded driver) for visibilty issues. I wouldn't go with any other color or mounting than that. The only actual personal vehicles I see in Niagara Falls that have fixed lights are volunteer fire fighters, and as said before, the require special permission. As for a siren, well, I can't think of anything that any CAP or any personal vehicle would need one for anyway. You'll even get in big trouble using the PA soundbox ones (you know the ones you get at auto stores that make the cow calls, rooster crows, etc.).

[EMT-83]

Even amber might not be legal without a permit; better check state laws. In Connecticut, any flashing lights (except turn signals) need a permit. Our CAP vans carry authorization from DMV.

[jimmydeanno]

... (you know the ones you get at auto stores that make the cow calls, rooster crows, etc.).

There goes my "la-cu-ca-ra-cha" idea...   

[SAR-EMT1]

WTFO?!

Take it from someone who is a fulltime EMS/Fire type. ---
I DONT HAVE A LIGHTBAR,
I recieved a magmount blue light with my badge and ID card, but it sits in a box somewhere.
A siren.... uh... WTFO?

Either on a CAP van (or worse, putting them on a POV because you are in CAP?!)

NOPE!
NIEN!
NO!
NIETZ!
NYET!
NR!
DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

[winterg]

I have to agree here as someone who has EVOC experience and training.  Allowing ES members of CAP to use flashing lights would be a less than desirable idea.  Unfortunately we all know there are members here and there (rare I hope)  that make decision that make all of us look bad.  Look at the reason we started maroon epaulets!

You just know that some (deleted) would be driving like James Bond responding to an ELT, get pulled over, and tell the cop, "It's OK, I'm with CAP!"

No, Until they offer EVOC in CAP (which they never will (prob a good thing)) it's a non issue.

Do not confuse this issue with the rotating orange beacons on flightline vehicles.

[BigMojo]

no need for the full light bar... 

You have a mini-light bar Joe! I've seen it. 

[Tubacap]

That all being said, I do have a yellow strobe that I am using when I am doing UDF work on the road.  It's amazing how much faster cars slow down when something on top of your vehicle is flashing, no matter the color; as opposed to just hazard lights.  This type of light is only used when on the side of the road though, not when in motion.

You do need to be careful though because some of the mag mount strobes will cause a signal to be sent into the DF equipment giving false readings.

[JoeTomasone]

no need for the full light bar... 

You have a mini-light bar Joe! I've seen it. 

Yep - 2 rotators.    The other Jeep has one rotator on it and it's not nearly as visible.

You do need to be careful though because some of the mag mount strobes will cause a signal to be sent into the DF equipment giving false readings.

A good reason to go with rotators instead of strobes.

[BigMojo]

LEDs...one in the back window and one in the front. Does what I need it to and not obtrusive.

[JoeTomasone]

LEDs...one in the back window and one in the front. Does what I need it to and not obtrusive.

I never did find good LED units that weren't way overpriced versus plain 'ol rotators.

[cap235629]

LEDs...one in the back window and one in the front. Does what I need it to and not obtrusive.

I never did find good LED units that weren't way overpriced versus plain 'ol rotators.

check out speedtechlights.com






Edited by Pylon: Modified to remove outbound link at vendor's request

[KyCAP]

Interesting topic.

There's a difference in having "lights and sirens" and then "driving like a loon" with them on.

Ky state law doesn't get into what is an "First" responder vs "Emergency" responder.  Also, just because you have lights shouldn't also imply "sirens" and the capability or implied reason to drive down the road like a mad man.

However, having the "tools" to get you through an incident or traffic around an incident is another issue.   Most folks will get over in congested traffic if you have red lights, but if you are the yellow tow truck guy then your out of luck.  However, if you put them on, then SOMEONE will screw it up and take off with red lights driving like nutso...  So, we go for the safer and more prudent lines of don't do it...

It is true that CAPR says "yellow" lights are approved, "then check with state law".

So, although I agree that CAP is not the paramedics and fire department the regs conflict with being an "Emergency" responder.   

Also, I am speaking completely with the application of the lights to corporate vehicles and don't think POV should be considered.

Also, in heavy fog like we have in KY like tonight I have been on the road in rural areas with two ground teams where you really didn't have a good reasonable option but to stop in the road and turn on emergency flashers and take a DF reading.   Strobes of "some kind" would be nice... white, yellow, red, purple...