Wouldn't ONE Uniform for ALL Be Best?

[BuckeyeDEJ]

So much for fresh meat around here....

I think it's important to remember that Civil Air Patrol is the UNIFORMED civilian auxiliary of the Air Force. The uniform has always been a part of CAP, and that uniform has been either an AF or Army (as the AF's forebear) uniform.

So the traditional CAP uniform is, in fact, the Air Force's. As much as it would be nice to have ONE uniform for all, that's not practical unless the Air Force waves all weight and grooming standards. Ain't gonna happen. So ONE alternative for those who opt not to wear the military uniform is enough.

[Eclipse]

Okay, as a newbie, I was not aware this issue had previously been beaten to death by the esteemed veterans of CAPTalk.

Sorry I raised it! I'm outta here...

Just as a point of information EVERY issue to CAP has been raised here, however they all degrade into uniform, respect from big blue, and corporate vs. military.   :angel:

[Smithsonia]

I'm looking at a set of CAP SUNTANS. Khaki type but brighter and slightly (and I do mean slightly) yellow. We wore these in the 1940-60s range. The fabric predates synthetics... I'm thinking they were worsted tropical gabardine. This is one smart outfit. If I could fit in this set (and I can't) I'd have women all over me. Which wouldn't please my wife. Cary Grant never looked better even in a tux -- than when he wore Suntans. Not a real possibility I'm sure. If you've never seen a set. They were special.

Hap Arnold? Hap was dead and buried before that uniform was built. Bad looking uni in my opinion. Just as long as we don't wear the baby blues (powder blue summer double knits that made you sweat and cold simultaneously which was standard in the mid-60s) that I had to wear in the AF. Stick me in baby blues then execute me quick before some else sees me. I managed 4 years in the AF and only wore those double knit pieces of Polynesian goofiness 4 or 5 times. They were made as some demonic hypothermic medical experiment.

The new Coast Guard type looks OK in pictures but I haven't seen one on a real person yet. What do they look like in person?

With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[a2capt]

Just as a point of information EVERY issue to CAP has been raised here, however they all degrade into uniform, respect from big blue, and corporate vs. military.   :angel:

After all...

Gotta keep .. uniform. 

[BillB]

Changing the uniforms for the entire CAP membership will not work.  Why? Who is going to pay for the uniforms for cadets? If you went to khaki uniforms, obviously USAF is not going to supply them to cadets. The problm is there are to many uniform variations for seniors. Seniors can wear the USAF blues and the multitude of corporate uniform variations. That's where the changes are needed. To limit those variations.
If a change was made to a standard uniform other than AF blues or BDUs, you can forget about the cadet program.

[FW]

^The Air Force does NOT supply cadets with uniforms.  We pay for them with our grant.  The Air Force has agreed to let us spend taxpayers'  money on cadet uniforms and, I don't remember them ever putting a restriction on the kind of uniform we could buy them.

The cadet program is not dependent on this subject.  Now, do we really want to go through this topic again?  

[Major Carrales]

Some of you people are behaving dreadfully in this thread.   I hope y'all are pleased.  A lack of Intergrity, an disservice to a new person and to CAP for all those that will read this topic looking for info, a less than excellent display of civility and a disrespect for fellow CAP officers.  Hummm...some you you may need to join the cadets in a lesson in the CORE VALUES of CAP.

As for locking topic, they should lock this whole UNIFORM section.

[AlphaSigOU]

Well said, Maj. C.!

Let's give the new guy the benefit of the doubt; he probably didn't realize that any talk about changing our uniform into anything other than AF-style or current corporates would stir up a hornet's nest ot titanic proportions.

[DC]

Here is an old related thread...

NOTE: I'm not suggesting we start this circular argument again, but if anyone is interested:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3752.0

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm looking at a set of CAP SUNTANS. Khaki type but brighter and slightly (and I do mean slightly) yellow. We wore these in the 1940-60s range. The fabric predates synthetics... I'm thinking they were worsted tropical gabardine. This is one smart outfit. If I could fit in this set (and I can't) I'd have women all over me. Which wouldn't please my wife. Cary Grant never looked better even in a tux -- than when he wore Suntans. Not a real possibility I'm sure. If you've never seen a set. They were special.

Hap Arnold? Hap was dead and buried before that uniform was built. Bad looking uni in my opinion. Just as long as we don't wear the baby blues (powder blue summer double knits that made you sweat and cold simultaneously which was standard in the mid-60s) that I had to wear in the AF. Stick me in baby blues then execute me quick before some else sees me. I managed 4 years in the AF and only wore those double knit pieces of Polynesian goofiness 4 or 5 times. They were made as some demonic hypothermic medical experiment.

The new Coast Guard type looks OK in pictures but I haven't seen one on a real person yet. What do they look like in person?

With regards;
ED OBRIEN

Ed:

I was a cadet in the mid 60's (63-66) and I do not remember the uniform of which you speak.  I wore khaki 505's and later 1505's, which was a GREAT uniform.  The service dress blue was a very heavy wool abortion that was no good in the summer, but could be used for Arctic survival in the winter.  If it got REALLY cold there was an even heavier overcoat.  The light blue shirt that was worn with the blues was God-awful.  Cotton, or something, and needed serious ironing to look even presentable.  Then the wrinkles re-appeared after you wore the jacket for 30 minutes. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Changing the uniforms for the entire CAP membership will not work.  Why? Who is going to pay for the uniforms for cadets? If you went to khaki uniforms, obviously USAF is not going to supply them to cadets. The problm is there are to many uniform variations for seniors. Seniors can wear the USAF blues and the multitude of corporate uniform variations. That's where the changes are needed. To limit those variations.
If a change was made to a standard uniform other than AF blues or BDUs, you can forget about the cadet program.

Bill:

THAT is precisely why I suggested that the officers go to an AF-like corporate uniform, but the cadets do not.  Making a uniform that is essentially AF but with enough differences to be instantly recognizable as a CAP uniform is in keeping with our heritage and in keeping with the AF's hypersensitivity to their "Image" problems represented by old and out-of shape CAP types.

That's OK, I don't need thanks and congratulations for my brilliant input.  It is enough for me to just rest in the quiet assurance that I am always right.

[Duke Dillio]

Since we are stirring up the pot again, here you go:

Common headgear?

BERETS FOR ALL!!!!!!

Viva la resistance!!!

[Major Carrales]

Since we are stirring up the pot again, here you go:

Common headgear?

BERETS FOR ALL!!!!!!

Viva la resistance!!!

We're about three posts away from a lock here.  Cue MIKE! (sorry MIKE, but this is where you usually come in and "pop a LOCK."

[Turk]

Okay, as a newbie, I was not aware this issue had previously been beaten to death by the esteemed veterans of CAPTalk.

Sorry I raised it! I'm outta here...

Sissy!

Ruminant!

[billford1]

Given the fact that the never ending uniform controversy wont go away even if this one gets locked people wont stop asking. With all the National Board activity on this we're told that there are proposals remaining to be approved which involve the USAF. Gen Courter alluded to this in a 1 Apr 08 policy letter.  There's no shortage of CAP members who agree that the present uniform structure needs a lot of work. If I were a wing commander I would lobby for the right to tell everybody (seniors) to show up in the same uniform for a given activity.

[Gunner C]

Given the fact that the never ending uniform controversy wont go away even if this one gets locked people wont stop asking. With all the National Board activity on this we're told that there are proposals remaining to be approved which involve the USAF. Gen Courter alluded to this in a 1 Apr 08 policy letter.  There's no shortage of CAP members who agree that the present uniform structure needs a lot of work. If I were a wing commander I would lobby for the right to tell everybody (seniors) to show up in the same uniform for a given activity.

If I'm not mistaken, the wing commander has that authority.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Given the fact that the never ending uniform controversy wont go away even if this one gets locked people wont stop asking. With all the National Board activity on this we're told that there are proposals remaining to be approved which involve the USAF. Gen Courter alluded to this in a 1 Apr 08 policy letter.  There's no shortage of CAP members who agree that the present uniform structure needs a lot of work. If I were a wing commander I would lobby for the right to tell everybody (seniors) to show up in the same uniform for a given activity.

That might be a bit tough.

I could order everyone into BDU or equivalent, but some would have to show up in blue BDU, others in Camo.  It simply is the current nature of the beast.

[billford1]

Even woodland camo and BBDUs are better by themselves than when added to 2 different polo shirts & grey slacks, green flight suits, blue flight suits, plus both aviator shirt uniforms grey slacks and blue. This is what I've seen. Yes the wing commander has the authority but the impetus should come from NHQ.

[FW]

I'm sorry guys,  haven't we heard this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

This is what we got.  We could simplify the "collection".  It would mean abandoning our Air Force service uniform with distinctive markings.  It would mean grooming standards which allow for long hair/beards.  It would mean griping from the ones who object to the above.  It would mean more discussions on CAPTALK about uniforms.......

Uh, Oh...   Circular converstation  Danger... Danger....  

[billford1]

Yes we have. So lets close this topic thread already.