Vanguard mega-order - the good, the ok and (slightly) ugly

[Eclipse]

Ok, right off, let me say, I am impressed, relieved and surprised.

I placed the order on Tuesday, AM, and it rolled in to me today, complete and correct.  Considering I was hoping to simply get in time for the conference next weekend, I'm pretty darn happy.

The Good:

Ribbons - ordered a bunch, they are good quality, and it appears the style and quantity are correct.

GBD badge, standard size - good detail, high brightness, no complaints.

GBD Badge, miniature - ditto, with the exception that the thing is so small it looks more like a tie-tac than an ES badge.  I can't imagine I will wear these very often, if at all - maybe under a service coat to minimize catching the ribbon frogs from the underside of the jacket.

Group CC Badge - high detail and shine, nice work.

Blazer nameplate grade - nice finish, good detail, no complaints

Grade insignia tie-tac - ditto

New MAJCOM (sans "US") - high quality, fully embroidered patches that match the logo. Fine.

GBD cloth insignia - high-luster thread with better detail in the feathers than the ones I have today.

CAP PT shirt and shorts - nothing exciting and they fit fine.

Dark blue utility uniform - quality is good, and it fits better than my flight suit, especially in the sleeves.  The material is thinner than I expected (not like a mechanics jumpsuit), but compared to the cheese-cloth of my blue Nomex should be fine. Its cut, pocketed, and labeled as a "flight suit". Other than it being an accelerant, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. I would say that for the average aircrew member who is more worried about impact trauma and function than fire, this is the way to go. I intend to use this in my go-bag as a quick uniform for unexpected missions, however how well it would hold up in the field is debatable since its not thick like a mechanic's suit as I'd hoped. (see note below)

The OK:

Ribbon attachments - look physically smaller than the ones I already had, and lighter, with color missing on one of the silver triangles.  Maybe I can exchange them next week in person. Acceptable, certainly, but I would not use these on my own ribbons given the choice.

Senior member flight cap device - the detail is slightly less distinct than my 8-year old CAP bookstore version, but more than acceptable.

Embroidered grade slide for Gore-Tex jacket - The oak leaf is beautiful, good detail and high luster, but the "CAP" is a point or two too skinny (I've noticed this on anyone with one of these), so it looks a little "off".  Again, more than usable, but someone should address that its not quite "right", especially considering that on the Gore-Tex its the only visible insignia.

Embroidered grade insignia "Major" - good luster, but poor detail in the stitching.  There's some kind of a chain stitch up the middle of the leaves which looks really out of place, and the density of the stitch is too low so blue color shows through.  Hopefully I can exchange them because given anything but a last-minute need I would not wear these.  The cloth is thicker as well, which will make it more difficult to fold and sew.  Listed as "ok" because based on what I have seen in the field, a lot of people would sew them on and not think twice about it.

Embroidered grade insignia "Major" on dark blue cloth - same issue, but to make things more disappointing the cloth color is not correct, its at least a shade too dark.  Of the 6 I received, two are marginally acceptable, but I may go with an alternate vendor for the grade for my jumpsuit. In fluorescent light the difference in color is very distinct.  I suppose I could go plastic encased, since I have a set, but I was saving those for my flight jacket.

The (slightly) Ugly:

Senior member epaulet slides, gray, "Major" - noticeably inferior to the ones I have from the bookstore days.  The material is different (thinner), the wrong color, and seriously creased and pulled by the stitching.  The grade insignia itself has slightly lower detail and a slightly improperly shaped leaf.  These will probably never come out of the bag, hopefully I can exchange them.  If you had nothing to compare them to, the only issue would be the pulling, but since I have bookstore-era grade to compare them to, the difference is obvious.

Dark blue utility uniform - I don't know who measured the velcro for the name tag, but its not even remotely close to correct, as in about 6 inches too low, and touching my arm.  If I had to guess, they probably measure the alignment off the pocket zipper, not the collar, and on a tall size there's more material between the pocket and the collar.  I'm hoping its a fairly simply fix, assuming the velcro is not too well sewn on.  There's also no velcro for the MAJCOM, again a simple sewing job.  I can align them off my ultramarine blue one.

So overall I am relieved. I went from concern about having a proper uniform for the conference (heh, I am presenting a seminar on the current state of the uniform) to getting a 100+ piece order from Vanguard in 2 days with nothing missing or incorrect.

So thank you VG, if this is the "new you", good on 'ye!

[jimmydeanno]

Senior member epaulet slides, gray, "Major" - noticeably inferior to the ones I have from the bookstore days.  The material is different (thinner), the wrong color, and seriously creased and pulled by the stitching.  The grade insignia itself has slightly lower detail and a slightly improperly shaped leaf.  These will probably never come out of the bag, hopefully I can exchange them.  If you had nothing to compare them to, the only issue would be the pulling, but since I have bookstore-era grade to compare them to, the difference is obvious.

I have this same issue, the material is definitely not the same as were previously made.  The grey fabric doesn't have the "texture" that it did before - they don't look nearly as professionally done.

[afgeo4]

When you're talking about the dark blue corporate utility uniform, are you talking about the flightsuit or the blue BDUs?

From your post it seems like you're talking about the flightsuit, but as such, it is not the appropriate uniform for ground team work. It is the corporate counterpart of the sage green flight suit.

There is a blue BDU uniform that is the counterpart to the woodland BDU uniform. That's the uniform for a "go bag" unless you're aircrew.

As far as epaulets go... I've only been in CAP for 5 years, but I haven't noticed too many CAP specific products that are of outstanding quality. However, I find that the product is good enough and presents a proper and professional appearance. However, you often can't mix and match new stuff with the old.

[AlphaSigOU]

The dark blue utility uniform (aka 'faux flight suit') is suitable for aircrew, UDF, flight line and mission base duties; I have to agree with afgeo4 in that it's not an appropriate uniform for ground teams.

There is a better dark blue utility uniform: buy one made by Tru-Spec. Vanguard and The Hock sell the Rothco coveralls, which isn't as good. The Tru-Spec utilities have metal zippers (unlike Rothco's which are nylon) and are of better material for a flight suit; I think it's almost the same fabric as true Nomex except for it's not fire retardant. Plus it has features that the green bag doesn't usually have: it's modeled after the short-lived McPeak flight suit without 'permacreases'. And it has side entry 'happy pockets' - makes it much easier to unbunch undergarmentsfrom under the flight suit without stripping.

You'll hafta ditch the provided velcro patch for the name tape; it's too small and usually set too high. Additional velcro for patches you have to supply. Use dark blue or black velcro for the dark blue utilities.

[NIN]

I recently promoted 4 of my 1Lts to Capt, and the shoulder marks that Vanguard sent were as described above. They were worse than unacceptable.

While the material of the "old" shoulder marks was a sort of "polyester uniform material" like your service coat or trousers, the one they sent were made of a grey material that would be more like that found on a pair of Dockers (a poly-cotton blend, perhaps?). Plus they were misshapen and puckered to all heck due to the embroidery.  IOW, they sucked!

Supposedly, they're replacing them.  Thankfully, I have enough should marks for my uniforms that I should be old and grey before mine are in need of replacement.

[Eclipse]

The dark blue utility uniform (aka 'faux flight suit') is suitable for aircrew, UDF, flight line and mission base duties; I have to agree with afgeo4 in that it's not an appropriate uniform for ground teams.

Yes, this is "new" dark blue utility uniform, not the similar nomex flight suit.

I would agree this is not the preferred ground team uniform, but as stowed "alert" uniform works just fine under a sarmed for the majority of the GT work we do.  If I was planning a bivouac, it's be camos and the field uniform, but if I'm rolling from work, you might see me in this.

In my neck of things, its flat and urban, even in the forest preserves you can hear the street from anyplace you are lost, so the odds of my doing any no-notice survival deployments are pretty much zero.

I'm of the no-launder, starched-stiff ilk for the bdu's (in either flavor), and not excited about leaving a full set, with boots, in my truck to wear twice a year on an unplanned mission - this jumpsuit is perfect for that.

[JC004]

...
Senior member epaulet slides, gray, "Major" - noticeably inferior to the ones I have from the bookstore days.  The material is different (thinner), the wrong color, and seriously creased and pulled by the stitching.  The grade insignia itself has slightly lower detail and a slightly improperly shaped leaf.  These will probably never come out of the bag, hopefully I can exchange them.  If you had nothing to compare them to, the only issue would be the pulling, but since I have bookstore-era grade to compare them to, the difference is obvious.
...

I have to agree on you there.  The bars are especially bad with the bunching.

[BigMojo]

The dark blue utility uniform (aka 'faux flight suit') is suitable for aircrew, UDF, flight line and mission base duties; I have to agree with afgeo4 in that it's not an appropriate uniform for ground teams.

Yes, this is "new" dark blue utility uniform, not the similar nomex flight suit.

I would agree this is not the preferred ground team uniform, but as stowed "alert" uniform works just fine under a sarmed for the majority of the GT work we do.  If I was planning a bivouac, it's be camos and the field uniform, but if I'm rolling from work, you might see me in this.

In my neck of things, its flat and urban, even in the forest preserves you can hear the street from anyplace you are lost, so the odds of my doing any no-notice survival deployments are pretty much zero.

I'm of the no-launder, starched-stiff ilk for the bdu's (in either flavor), and not excited about leaving a full set, with boots, in my truck to wear twice a year on an unplanned mission - this jumpsuit is perfect for that.

I have the Tru-Spec one, I got it from Galls, and have it for the exact same reason. I'm primarily ground team, but get the odd flight crew mission, so investing in Nomex just wasn't a financially sound decision to make. It lives nicely folded in a small back pack in the truck and is ready to go for quick call UDF missions. But as said, if I know I'm going to be in the swamp, on go the BDUs, not even a second thought to it. I had to move the velcro for the name tag, but that was easy, the hard part was finding wide, sew on, velcro.

[SarDragon]

You can get 4" wide Velcro from Vanguard, in two or three colors. It's also available from Flightsuits.com. They are now going by Gibson & Barnes, but it's the same folks. You'll have to call them, or do a mail-in order, since they weren't listing it on the web site the last time I looked.

[afgeo4]

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought there were only two dark blue corporate uniforms.

1. Corporate dark blue flightsuit (authorized for flight duty only, just like the USAF style sage green one).

2. Corporate dark blue utility (authorized for all duty not calling for dress, just like the USAF style Battle Dress Uniform).

Is there a third???

[NIN]

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought there were only two dark blue corporate uniforms.

1. Corporate dark blue flightsuit (authorized for flight duty only, just like the USAF style sage green one).

2. Corporate dark blue utility (authorized for all duty not calling for dress, just like the USAF style Battle Dress Uniform).

Is there a third???

Yes. There is the "Distinctive Utility Uniform" (a dark blue jumpsuit), the "Distinctive Field Uniform (the BDU-equivalent BBDUs), and the "CAP Blue Flight Suit" (Royal/Dark blue Nomex).  Each can be found on pages 78, 79, and 77, respectively, of the CAPM 39-1.

There is a difference between the CAP Blue Flight Suit and the Distinctive Utility Uniform.

[afgeo4]

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought there were only two dark blue corporate uniforms.

1. Corporate dark blue flightsuit (authorized for flight duty only, just like the USAF style sage green one).

2. Corporate dark blue utility (authorized for all duty not calling for dress, just like the USAF style Battle Dress Uniform).

Is there a third???

Yes. There is the "Distinctive Utility Uniform" (a dark blue jumpsuit), the "Distinctive Field Uniform (the BDU-equivalent BBDUs), and the "CAP Blue Flight Suit" (Royal/Dark blue Nomex).  Each can be found on pages 78, 79, and 77, respectively, of the CAPM 39-1.

There is a difference between the CAP Blue Flight Suit and the Distinctive Utility Uniform.

What are the differences? Fabric?

[Pylon]

What are the differences? Fabric?

See the photos in CAPM 39-1.

[JayT]

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought there were only two dark blue corporate uniforms.

1. Corporate dark blue flightsuit (authorized for flight duty only, just like the USAF style sage green one).

2. Corporate dark blue utility (authorized for all duty not calling for dress, just like the USAF style Battle Dress Uniform).

Is there a third???

Yes. There is the "Distinctive Utility Uniform" (a dark blue jumpsuit), the "Distinctive Field Uniform (the BDU-equivalent BBDUs), and the "CAP Blue Flight Suit" (Royal/Dark blue Nomex).  Each can be found on pages 78, 79, and 77, respectively, of the CAPM 39-1.

There is a difference between the CAP Blue Flight Suit and the Distinctive Utility Uniform.

What are the differences? Fabric?

One is fire proof, and you can wear a flight cap with, the other one isn't, and you can't.

The Utility Uniform is another BDU replacement.

[afgeo4]

Can one be worn as the other without people knowing it? What are the cost differences through Vanguard?

IMHO, if uniforms can be worn without someone being able to tell the differences then it's just one uniform.

We don't treat summer weight and winter weight BDU's as different uniforms. Why should this be the case with this blue bag? Why do we even need it??? There's a bag for flying and there's a BBDU that's for ground use.

[Eclipse]

Can one be worn as the other without people knowing it? What are the cost differences through Vanguard?

Vanguard pricing:

Flightsuit - $ 265.00
Jumpsuit - $ 40.00

You can tell the difference up close, though it would hard from a distance.

Jumpsuit



Nomex Flightsuit:



Related to this I finally got around to configuring the insignia on my jumpsuit last night.

I had to move the nametag velcro up and to the center, it was way off, and too small, anyway.
The dark cloth insignia are the way to go, they look really sharp, as does the suit in general, IMHO.
Considering that my flight jacket matches in color, I don't know if I'll ever bother with the
light blue Nomex one again (even though its still legal until March '09"

One hitch, under the nametag velcro was a small sewing hole in the fabric - too little to really notice, but annoying none the less, I'm wondering if the position of the velcro was intentionally wrong to cover the hole.  I'm just going to put a small, iron-on patch behind it an move on.

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with it, and it's hard to beat the price for a complete uniform you can wear for just about any operational activity.

[Gunner C]

For the nomex flight suit are there pockets on the thighs?  My CAP coveralls don't - seems that it's yet another problem with the design.  I really dislike the way it's put together.  It's not really like they used a real flight suit for the pattern, it just kinda looks like one - the cut is different, there are pockets missing, the velcro is too small.  It's worth the $40 I paid for it, but not much more.

GC