Tactical Vests

[isuhawkeye]

SAR teams around the world have regularly worn surplus, or modified military load bearing vests.  Unfortunately the old LBE's and H harnesses were usually built with dismounted infantry in mind.  With our military currently fighting a conflict that causes them to work, move, and ride very similar to a SAR team I began to wonder.

Have other SAR responders noticed a change in the vests that are available?

If so, what have you found?

Have you changed your kit based upon these findings?

CAP gear has a great article on this subject, and I was hoping to see what others have done.

[IceNine]

I personally use a Helo Pilot Vest for my 24 Gear, there is nothing on the back so I can sit in vehicle with it on comfortably get in and out and have no problem doing it.

I Use a Molle Ruck for my 72 which fits nicely and comfortably over my helo vest

[JohnKachenmeister]

I use a simple tactical vest that holds all of my 24-hour gear, which, coincidentally, also makes a great survival gear vest for flying.  I use plastic soap dishes from the BX to hold gear, and stick the soap dishes down the rifle magazine pouches.  I keep 1 mag pouch empty, and use that for an aircraft handheld radio as a backup comm. with the aircraft.  The inside has zippered mesh pouches that can hold my poncho and my orange safety vest.  It has a belt at the bottom, to which I clip a standard military canteen.

The pistol mag pouches are great for holding smoke flares.

The vest was about $50 from Cheaper-n-Dirt.

[MikeD]

What's cheaper then dirt?  IceNine or John, can you drop a link to the google-fu impaired?

[SarDragon]

I found this:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/

[isuhawkeye]

thanks guy,

how about the big names like blackhawk, etc.  Is anyone using those

[adamblank]

I use the Blackhawk Strike Omega vest.  It is excellent quality.  Blackhawk seems to be the vest of choice for AF Security Forces at least from what I have seen.  I think the vest is durable and not too pricey.  Where Blackhawk gets you is all the extra pouches if you buy from them, they get extremely expensive.

[BigMojo]

I use this as opposed to a vest.


At the risk of being a murse (man-purse), it's very comfortable, and I can carry my entire 24hr kit on it if need be. Quick, and simple, lives behind the seat in my truck, and is always ready to go. Worth every penny.
http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=4&idproduct=31

AND

If CAP ever lets me us my CCW permit, it will fit very nicely in there, as it's designed for it.

[♠SARKID♠]

FANNY PACK!  OPEN FIRE ON THE MURSE!  Yeah I don't think I could ever wear that.

[davidsinn]

Pic redacted
I can carry my entire 24hr kit on it if need be.

Say what? I would love to know how you do that.

[BigMojo]

I have a couple other pouches the attach to it, that I keep my ponch, an emergency bivy, and some food stuffs in, water bottle has a holster, that snaps around the main strap. It can carry all my 24hr gear, but if I know I'm going to be out that long, I have a better pack. It's bigger than it looks....

If I remember, I'll empty everything out of it, and take a picture tonight.

[Dragoon]

Every kind of load bearing equipment is a compromise.

The vest maximizes ready access to items (so you can grab a fresh magazine or grenade under fire).  It maximizes balance (spreads the weight all around).  It also minimizes the wearer's size (making it easier to fit through doors and hatches).

On the other hand, vests tend to be hotter, as they cover up more of your torso.  They also aren't as good at carrying large or irregular shaped objects as a day pack can. 

I actually prefer the day pack - I can more easily customize my load if I have to hump some extra items (like, say an LPER,  some portion of the team medical kit or extra rations.) 

I don't really need to pass through small doorways (I can take it off when I get in the van).  I've never experienced the need for the better weight distribution, as our load isn't that heavy.   And I don't really need much that much split-second ready access - with the exception of a few small items (compass, whistle, flashlight), we normally have the luxury of taking a moment to stop before we pull something out. 

Plus it's cheaper.  But to each his own.

I do think a vest is a good idea for aircrew - there are so many little things you need in flight, and it's real hard to get to the baggage compartment if you're the pilot.   

[Eeyore]

I have a Blackhawk medic vest (I got it for free, so it was a good deal) and I have found that I prefer the day pack (I use the Camelbak Talon). I suppose I could get the vest to work if I spent some time setting up the pouches.

I do like the distribution of weight, the day pack makes my shoulders pretty sore by the end of the day. I carry a camera and camera equipment when I'm in the field, which adds some extra weight. I just don't want to miss out on that one great picture, it's the PAO in me.

[DNall]

Yeah I agree. The stuff that's avail from DRMO is best for 99% of people. I really don't think 24hr gear should be a major investment. I've got a couple cool items, but honestly cheap & durable are best.

Now if I could go to an orange molle vest or just attach reflective strips to my stuff & thereby get rid of the outer orange vest the interferes with my gear, I'd do that for sure.

[Eeyore]

Yeah, the orange reflective stuff is a pain with the vest. I haven't seen any way of not wearing the vest over the tac vest that is within the spirit of the reg. I've seen a few people just use the orange reflective belts around the tac vest, but I don't really think a strip of orange is what the reg means.

[isuhawkeye]

thanks for all of the input.  We are aware of the cost benefits of free gear, but I am specifically looking for ground teamer's who use tac vests. 

So far I have heard

1.  Black hawk medic
2. Black hawk shrike
3. Air Crew vest.

Whose got more?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Every kind of load bearing equipment is a compromise.

The vest maximizes ready access to items (so you can grab a fresh magazine or grenade under fire).  It maximizes balance (spreads the weight all around).  It also minimizes the wearer's size (making it easier to fit through doors and hatches).

On the other hand, vests tend to be hotter, as they cover up more of your torso.  They also aren't as good at carrying large or irregular shaped objects as a day pack can. 

I actually prefer the day pack - I can more easily customize my load if I have to hump some extra items (like, say an LPER,  some portion of the team medical kit or extra rations.) 

I don't really need to pass through small doorways (I can take it off when I get in the van).  I've never experienced the need for the better weight distribution, as our load isn't that heavy.   And I don't really need much that much split-second ready access - with the exception of a few small items (compass, whistle, flashlight), we normally have the luxury of taking a moment to stop before we pull something out. 

Plus it's cheaper.  But to each his own.

I do think a vest is a good idea for aircrew - there are so many little things you need in flight, and it's real hard to get to the baggage compartment if you're the pilot.   

You have cited the exact reasons I use a vest rather than a pack.  I had a pack, but I was always leaving it in the van.  Why have one if I don't wear it?  Whenever I needed something, it was back in the van.

Also, I am also aircrew-qualified.  I wanted something that would be convenient is BOTH roles... GT and AC.

[nesagsar]

I use an OV-10 Bronco vest most of the time.

[isuhawkeye]

I'm not familiar with that one, can you please provide some info?

[SAR-EMT1]

Does anyone use the CPF 90 ?

I was thinking about getting one and using the patrol pack for 24 gear and the main ruck for 72. OR the main ruck for the mission gear and the patrol pack to hold a 1st Responder/BLS medkit.

Thoughts/comments.

[_]

Does anyone use the CPF 90 ?

I was thinking about getting one and using the patrol pack for 24 gear and the main ruck for 72. OR the main ruck for the mission gear and the patrol pack to hold a 1st Responder/BLS medkit.

Thoughts/comments.

Stonewall and Walkman use them.  Stonewall posted about it in some other threads.  I don't remember which ones but some searching may pop up something.  Walkman just got one recently.  You can try PMing him to get his opinion.

[winterg]

I have this vest made completely in international orange.  It is great!  Room for everything comfortably.

Here is the url: http://www.specialforces.com/store/catalog/product_27264_OP_Survival_Vest.html

[Eclipse]

I still say the sarmed's are the way to go for 99% of our missions.  Since my posting below,
I have used this for just about everything a GTM/UDF guy is gonna do with no issues.

I can't remember the last time I strapped into the tac vest, and frankly am starting to look around for an eLBV again as it was much better suited to the task.  I had one I dropped $25 on from eBay, it served my actively for several years including the "big one" and then I sold it when someone who was moving basically gave me the tac vest.

I miss my eLBV.   

Here's a good place to get a great vest:

http://tinyurl.com/yjt8z5

I took off the medic patch, replaced it with Velcro and added some nametapes:


I can vouch for the quality and markings noted are in places you can hardly see, or wouldn't care (i.e. inside the vest).

I intend to use this for UDF, traffic details, and lower-impact days. 


Field days / bivouavcs, etc.,  will likely see me using my new TAC vest with the retro tape:


and lighted shoulders:  http://group22.net/files/other/vest/vest.wmv

with a high-vis orange or green vest underneath:

http://group22.net/files/other/vest.jpg

The SARMED-type vests worked very well in the field during Katrina, and are much more comfortable if you are getting in and out of a vehicle a lot, the trade-off is no ALICE attachments and limited storage.


Note:  John Desmaris has seen this vest at NESA and indicated that he liked the tac vests with the tapes affixed, commenting that it >should< be the standard, because the web gear, etc, that many of us have worn for years has too many strings and loose-hanging parts to be good in heavy field.

I prefer a lime-green vest, mainly because I think they are higher-vis, but with that said, I fully acknowledge that the vest is now a uniform item and it could be an issue both liability-wise and reg-wise.  I always carry a nice orange vest as well, and, while the ILWG DOS has indicated on many occasions that as long as its high-vis, its acceptable, I would not argue with anyone who made an issue of it.  Regs are regs.

Getting this post back on track...

Below are photographs from this weekend - first time out with the new tac vest.

There is no question, that while mine w/ the stripes is visible, the blaze orange is far superior, especially from the air in heavy canopy or brush.

[isuhawkeye]

These are great. 

I have come to really enjoy the concepts of the new tactical/SAR vests, and finding them in orange has is great. 

Has anyone found one in Orange with MOLLE attachments?

[JesusFreak]

For GES I have a Journalists Vest, and it does not work very well. Is there any place where I can get a new vest for a cheap price that works very,very well? On my last mission, I had trouble finding some things.

[Eclipse]

For GES I have a Journalists Vest, and it does not work very well. Is there any place where I can get a new vest for a cheap price that works very,very well? On my last mission, I had trouble finding some things.

There's a link above (for starters)

[isuhawkeye]

For those of you who dont like vests because they are to hot.....

Take a look at this one

http://www.truenorthgear.com/product_detail.php?path=0_11&p_id=212

[Eclipse]

OK, just great. 

I'm going to have my wife call you when she sees the credit card bill.  That set up is SWEET!

(...it will be mine...it will be mine....) 

[isuhawkeye]

Sorry to dig into your check book like that.  I was interested to see that it comes in safety orange.

I'm also interested in seeing what this thigh rig conversion is all about. 

here are a few more pics for everyone.


http://www.truenorthgear.com/_large/212av100_lo_01.jpg

[JohnKachenmeister]

Nice for the independently wealthy.  Me, I'm a retiree on fixed income trying not to have to eat dog food!

I have a $50 tactical vest that carries everything I need and looks good.  I use the mag pouches to hold gear, and added a canteen, cup, and cover to the belt.  The pouch on the canteen cover works great as a holder for water purification tablets, which makes sense, since that is what it was designed for.

I use soap dishes (BX, 88 cents each) to hold small items, and slip the soap dish into the mag pouches.  I located small (5-inch long, 1-inch diameter) smoke bombs at a fireworks store and have several colors in the pistol mag. pouches.  I keep one rifle mag pouch empty for the hand-held radio.   

[Eclipse]

The leg bag conversion ability is what really caught my eye.

To John, yes this stuff can be pricey, as much because in a lot of cases its being bought by an agency instead of a single person, but as I'm sure you know, a BH Tac vest starts at about $150, and that's before you add the toys.

Sounds like the vest you have is similar to the eLBV I pine for, sometimes the simplest solutions are the best for a reason.

One thing that gets under my skin a little is when a cadet complains about how they "can't afford a field jacket, hat, etc..." because "...they are too expensive..."and then you see them on Facebook in full ACU battle-rattle playing airsoft or paintball with a $300 gun.   

While one of the reasons I love CAP is it gives me a plausible excuse for stuff I used to buy when I was twelve at the surplus store, the toys are secondary, and someone motivated can be an assest, especially when they are in training mode, with a school bag, two bottles of water and a sandwich from home. 

[JayT]

One thing that gets under my skin a little is when a cadet complains about how they "can't afford a field jacket, hat, etc..." because "...they are too expensive..."and then you see them on Facebook in full ACU battle-rattle playing airsoft or paintball with a $300 gun.   

Bingo.

[flyerthom]

FANNY PACK!  OPEN FIRE ON THE MURSE!  Yeah I don't think I could ever wear that.

I might try it for work. Could work well in the rotorwing job.

[AL1EN]

I too am looking to rework my gear, and was wondering if anyone has tried the Blade-Tech pilot's vest - looks like a tac medic vest with a pack attached to the back i/o attachment webbing, but it IS mesh, like a tac vest.  Any opinions on this gear (I know - it's pretty pricey...)?

http://www.blade-tech.com/Pilot-Survival-Vest-pr-987.html

Thanks,
C Julien
2nd Lt. CAP

[Stonewall]

Does anyone use the CPF 90 ?

I was thinking about getting one and using the patrol pack for 24 gear and the main ruck for 72. OR the main ruck for the mission gear and the patrol pack to hold a 1st Responder/BLS medkit.

Thoughts/comments.

Stonewall and Walkman use them.  Stonewall posted about it in some other threads.  I don't remember which ones but some searching may pop up something.  Walkman just got one recently.  You can try PMing him to get his opinion.

I think you're talking about this thread.

[KyCAP]

Found this vest while trolling around looking for Incident Command Vests

http://www.initial-attack.com/fireline/Pages/Firefighting%20Home.htm

they have this also
http://www.initial-attack.com/fireline/Pop%20Pages/FP121.htm

And even the CAP ORANGE version (HA!)
http://www.initial-attack.com/fireline/Pages/EMS-Safety%20Page%201.htm

[isuhawkeye]

hey, now thats a sharp vest.  good work

by the way.  true north just shipped me a vest.  once it gets in ill post a few reviews on my site

[isuhawkeye]

^^^ Hey Eclipse look what came in the mail today.

Expect to see a review on my site in the next few days






So far, I have been pretty impressed with this vest.  Well see how it holds up in the next few days

[Eclipse]

Wow - nice, looks like it would be great for hot climates, too, since it's really open.

Where the envy emoticon?

[DNall]

doesn't look like it carries the load very well.

[isuhawkeye]

I didn't think it would. 

It is designed to very similar to the LBE.  The "But Pack" looks kind of floppy, but it actually pulls in pretty tight to the body. 

I moved really well with the system on, and the pockets were surprisingly easy to get to

[TankerT]

Does it have enough storage to fit a full 24 hour pack?

[isuhawkeye]

it sure does.

the but pack is massive.  I shoved a ton of gear in there.  I filled up all of my 24 hr kit and I still have pouches to spare. 

my f button must have been sticking

[SARMedTech]

it sure does.

the but pack is massive.  I shoved a ton o gear in there.  I illed up all o my 24 hr kit and I still have pouches to spare. 

Looks like you packed the "f" key a little prematurely. 

[isuhawkeye]

That I did.

I know that you guys have  a lot of experience with field gear in a variety of situations, so I need you help.

I am in the process of reviewing several pieces of equipment for  a few different vendors, and I would like to come up with a standardized report card for these reviews. 

What specific areas, or issues would you like to see addressed, or reviewed?

you can post here, PM me, or e-mail me.  Thanks

Also if you can get close I would happily lend out some stuff for you to review for me.

[0]

I myself use a fishing vest and it works wonders for me.   

[isuhawkeye]

so, Tanker.   Did you order your vest yet?

[TankerT]

Yup.  Should come on the 15th, according to an e-mail I got yesterday.

[Pylon]

So would something like this work well enough for basic GT and UDF work?



Seems like it'd work well because you've got the open back (comfortable sitting in van or plane with it on), it's MOLLE (so you can put whatever you need on there, and nothing more or less), and it doesn't seem too bulky but not too stringy/flimsy either.

Any thoughts?

[isuhawkeye]

I don't have any first hand experience with MOLLE systems.  the concept is sound, and our troops overseas certainly have spent enough time getting in and out of vehicles. 

My only issue with military vests is the fact that you end up needing to wear an orange safety vest over top of the system,

[Pylon]

I don't have any first hand experience with MOLLE systems.  the concept is sound, and our troops overseas certainly have spent enough time getting in and out of vehicles. 

Well it seems if I'm starting from scratch, the MOLLE stuff might be a good way to go.  There seems to be an endless variety of modules/accessories available, plus the protective canvas sleeves we have on our CAP ISR radios would clip right onto a MOLLE loop.

My only issue with military vests is the fact that you end up needing to wear an orange safety vest over top of the system,

Yeah, that seems like it would defeat the simplicity and easy-access benefits of the vest.  I wonder if something strikingly similar (or even identical) is made in an orange fabric.  Would that satisfy the safety vest requirement? 

[isuhawkeye]

my interpretation has always been that if your SAR vest is orange then you can count it as your safety vest.

Thats just my opinion

[notaNCO forever]

As long as it has orange on it and its a vest that would technically make it a orange vest.

[Hawk200]

As long as it has orange on it and its a vest that would technically make it a orange vest.

Not necessarily. Some IC's might not allow them, and they have that authority.

Now an FLC made in orange might work, but it would be up to the local IC.

[Eclipse]

As long as it has orange on it and its a vest that would technically make it a orange vest.

Not necessarily. Some IC's might not allow them, and they have that authority.

Most IC's never even see the GT's.

Any IC making an issue of the above is not focused where they need to be.  Individual member equipment is
the responsibility of the GTL and GBD.

[isuhawkeye]

As an IC I know that I let the GBD, and GTL's manage their people. 

However I occasionally found teams with orange arm bands.  I do not find that acceptable, and I told them to get a vest before they got deployed.

We keep a duffle bag full of vests for just such a need

[Hawk200]

We keep a duffle bag full of vests for just such a need

Things that make you go "hmm".

As in "Hmm, I think I'll may just fill a duffle full of orange vests for the same reason".

Good idea.

[isuhawkeye]

make sure you mark them, and keep an inventory or else they will walk away

[MSgt Van]

Here's the one I use.  Adjustable snug fit; I like it.  Enough room to pack my Jetboil burner, cup and coffee...you know; the essentials.

http://www.searchgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=177

[notaNCO forever]

 I'd get it if it had enough room to fit all my 24 hour gear in it.

[MSgt Van]

Big pack area on the back not visible in the pic...

[isuhawkeye]

that vest caught my eye.  do you like it?

any draw backs to it?

[MSgt Van]

The sides draw up nice and snug.  The water bladder seems adequate.  I get all my mandatory 24-hour gear in there plus extras (read "coffee").  I haven't found any problems with it yet.  The zippers seem very heavy duty; overall a rugged vest. 
I can't wear it when driving/flying due to the back pouch.

[IceNine]

So would something like this work well enough for basic GT and UDF work?


Seems like it'd work well because you've got the open back (comfortable sitting in van or plane with it on), it's MOLLE (so you can put whatever you need on there, and nothing more or less), and it doesn't seem too bulky but not too stringy/flimsy either.

Any thoughts?

I think that would work really well.  I have the molle version of the ruck sack.  And I love it.

the major benefit that I see is for me anyway, I like to use my vest for when I run ground branch as well as GT.   so I keep extra pouches setup for my different missions.  In a couple minutes I can change up for a different duty.

And with the increasing availability of accessories there is no reason not to go molle.

[davedove]

Here's the one I use.  Adjustable snug fit; I like it.  Enough room to pack my Jetboil burner, cup and coffee...you know; the essentials.

http://www.searchgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=177

One person in our squadron uses this.  It works great, but one shortcoming is that if you want to jump out of the vehicle for anything, you have to put on all your gear.

For instance, if you wanted to shoot a bearing, normally you could just grab your safety vest and grab your compass, but with this vest you have to put on all your gear.

[0]

Here's the one I use.  Adjustable snug fit; I like it.  Enough room to pack my Jetboil burner, cup and coffee...you know; the essentials.

http://www.searchgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=177

One person in our squadron uses this.  It works great, but one shortcoming is that if you want to jump out of the vehicle for anything, you have to put on all your gear.

For instance, if you wanted to shoot a bearing, normally you could just grab your safety vest and grab your compass, but with this vest you have to put on all your gear.

Not necessarily.  If you still carry a safety vest pull that out and wear that when you go shoot the bearing. 

[Gunner C]

I'd get it if it had enough room to fit all my 24 hour gear in it.

Sweet!

GC

[davedove]

Here's the one I use.  Adjustable snug fit; I like it.  Enough room to pack my Jetboil burner, cup and coffee...you know; the essentials.

http://www.searchgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=177

One person in our squadron uses this.  It works great, but one shortcoming is that if you want to jump out of the vehicle for anything, you have to put on all your gear.

For instance, if you wanted to shoot a bearing, normally you could just grab your safety vest and grab your compass, but with this vest you have to put on all your gear.

Not necessarily.  If you still carry a safety vest pull that out and wear that when you go shoot the bearing. 

I was looking from the point of view of using this vest in place of the safety vest.  Of course, the individual could certainly have an extra vest available for the situation, but that's just one more thing to pack.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Apologies for waking a sleeping topic, but I didn't feel starting a new vest thread was appropriate.

That being said, does anyone have any useful specs (sizing, etc.) for Camelbak's Delta-5 vest? I've made inquiries to Camelbak in re: this info but have received nothing in the way of useful information...

Thanks in advance.

[NIN]

I recently picked up a Tru-Spec Ranger Rack (their version of the Blackhawk R.A.C.K.) that I'm in the process of equipping.  Seems that the military concept of "load bearing equipment" of old (ie. pistol belt, shoulder harness, canteens, et al) has gone out in favor of MOLLE/PALS gear with hydration bladders over various forms of body armor so I'm left with outdated junk and in some instances look "out of step." (and I'm not getting body armor just for the ability to throw pouches on it.. no way)

I am taking my darn sweet time outfitting it with pouches, however, because they're darn expensive and I don't want to break the bank just yet.

I'm not a fan of the "center zip up" type vests (like the SRU-21P vests of old) mostly because that wastes a lot of prime space in the front.   The trend now is toward putting everything in the front where you can reach it.  I'm still finding on the Ranger Rack where I can stash stuff like a radio, flashlight(s), etc.    The nice thing is that it does not put any gear (except, maybe, your hydration bladder) on the back.

Then again, I'm not using mine for CAP-style 24-hr gear, either.

[maverik]

Alright, currently I use a regular Black LBV-88 that cost $20.00 plus $5.00 for shipping. I also use my Camelbak thermobak 3L (it's ACU) and that's my 24,I am thinking about putting my Camelbak day pack on their (should I?) to carry large or irregular shaped objects. Iam also thinking about buying this nifty little vest: http://searchgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=177&HS=1     again if I could get feedback on wether or not I should buy it that'd be awesome.

[IceNine]

Apologies for waking a sleeping topic, but I didn't feel starting a new vest thread was appropriate.

That being said, does anyone have any useful specs (sizing, etc.) for Camelbak's Delta-5 vest? I've made inquiries to Camelbak in re: this info but have received nothing in the way of useful information...

Thanks in advance.

www.capgear.net  He did a nice review of this vest

[fyrfitrmedic]

Apologies for waking a sleeping topic, but I didn't feel starting a new vest thread was appropriate.

That being said, does anyone have any useful specs (sizing, etc.) for Camelbak's Delta-5 vest? I've made inquiries to Camelbak in re: this info but have received nothing in the way of useful information...

Thanks in advance.

www.capgear.net  He did a nice review of this vest

Thanks for that. I've had the site bookmarked since I first saw a mention here but hadn't been there lately.