mission reimbursement questions travel to/from mission base.

[Al Sayre]

The reason most of the money gets turned back is because missions haven't been getting closed in a timely manner.  The NOC now gives us 30 days to close missions, training or actual, or the Wing eats it until the end of the year and will get reimbursed IF there are any funds remaining.

Here's how it works:

Each wing is give a budget amount at the beginning of the fiscal year.  When a training mission is requested in WIMRS, an estimated amount for the activity is deducted from the budget and "locked up" until the mission number closes.  Then any remaing funds are released back to (or deducted from) the Wing Budget. 

If you have missions in your wing that don't get closed in time to reallocate and spend the funds either within the Wing, Region, or Nationally before the end of the fiscal year any remaining funds get "turned back" when the accounts are settled.  This is one of the main reasons all training stops around the 1st of September. 

Our current target is to close all missions in WIMRS within 7 days, 14 days max, so we can try and not have available funds go to waste, and also not have the Wing eat missions that the USAF should be paying for.

[mynetdude]

What do you suggest that we as IC's do?

Lobby to get NHQ to increase the funding so we stop giving money back every year.  From what I understand there is usually about 1 million that is "turned back in" from the appropriated funds we're given.  That's 20K per wing...

Thats another thing... I don't understand why are we giving money back??? Great if you don't spend it all, you can use it for next year or for the rest of the year for other unexpected needs that may not exactly pertain to training.

If we end up saving the funds and not giving it back, we could have encampments that could provide other kinds of training that require a budget or heck make the encampments cheaper by subsidizing them! I think its silly to have to give back any unused appropriated funds. Or use the appropriated funds to build wing specific programs or other unique support the wing needs maybe...

[Al Sayre]

Because we are using the taxpayers money.  A given amount is appropriated for use in a specific program in a given fiscal year.  If we don't use it for what it was intended, we must return the funds to the taxpayers from whom they were appropriated. 

It also prevents Wings from saying "well if we cancel half the SAREX's this year and next year, we can put up a nice new Wing Headquartes building or buying all of the Wing Staff new Mess Dress Uniforms etc. 

[mikeylikey]

^ And don't forget NHQ tracks what monies Wings and Regions return and you better bet the following years money to the State or Region will be "corrected" to the amount of the prior year minus (-) the amount returned.  I have seen it happen with O-flight money.  Wing gives back the money, and everyone is shocked that we received less the next FY.

[RiverAux]

Yeah it would be nice if the Ops plan indicated what type of mission it was, corporate or AFAM rather than it saying funding is only for MS/MO.  Granted if it was a corporate unfunded mission then thats fine I just would like to know that.

Every operational plan I've seen in the last years has indicated the mission symbol, which tells you all you need to know.  If your wing isn't including it, you need to get on their case. 

[mynetdude]

Yeah it would be nice if the Ops plan indicated what type of mission it was, corporate or AFAM rather than it saying funding is only for MS/MO.  Granted if it was a corporate unfunded mission then thats fine I just would like to know that.

Every operational plan I've seen in the last years has indicated the mission symbol, which tells you all you need to know.  If your wing isn't including it, you need to get on their case. 

Or maybe I am not seeing THEIR version of the ops plan, I will ask to see it for the next ops planning no guarantees I will get to see it anyhow... it would pertain to OPSEC... only those who have a need to know about it would be able to see it.

[Al Sayre]

OPSEC?  There's nothing secret or special in most ops plans and certainly not for SAREX training.  If you have WIMRS access, you can view the OPs plan, it's a linked PDF that can be found at the top of the page.

It's really no big deal.  Generally, it states WHO is in charge, WHAT you plan to do, WHERE you plan to do it, WHEN you plan to do it and HOW MUCH will it cost.  The mission status and mission symbol are on the main WIMRS page, not the ops plan, since they are assigned after the ops plan is issued.

[FW]

^ And don't forget NHQ tracks what monies Wings and Regions return and you better bet the following years money to the State or Region will be "corrected" to the amount of the prior year minus (-) the amount returned.  I have seen it happen with O-flight money.  Wing gives back the money, and everyone is shocked that we received less the next FY.

This is very true.  It's most important to use ALL the money budgeted to your wing for training.  Some wings get reduced 10-15% in the next FY.  CAP must use all its grant.  Excess is turned back to the govt.  So, any money turned back from wings is used for other purposes like purchasing more radios, upgrading Archer, etc.

BTW, dont' be afraid to spend the money early.  Regions usually have a reserve and can ask for more from national if things get tight.  IMHO, it's much more important to train than
not.  And, if this means being reimbursed to get to base, so be it.

Oh, BTW, for real missions, we haven't run out of cash yet  , so you shouldn't have to worry about reimbursement either.

[mynetdude]

^ And don't forget NHQ tracks what monies Wings and Regions return and you better bet the following years money to the State or Region will be "corrected" to the amount of the prior year minus (-) the amount returned.  I have seen it happen with O-flight money.  Wing gives back the money, and everyone is shocked that we received less the next FY.

This is very true.  It's most important to use ALL the money budgeted to your wing for training.  Some wings get reduced 10-15% in the next FY.  CAP must use all its grant.  Excess is turned back to the govt.  So, any money turned back from wings is used for other purposes like purchasing more radios, upgrading Archer, etc.

BTW, dont' be afraid to spend the money early.  Regions usually have a reserve and can ask for more from national if things get tight.  IMHO, it's much more important to train than
not.  And, if this means being reimbursed to get to base, so be it.

Oh, BTW, for real missions, we haven't run out of cash yet  , so you shouldn't have to worry about reimbursement either.

Well TBH I don't see how the USAF could even run out of cash... our government makes its own cash for itself... j/k.

[isuhawkeye]

I know we've talked about this before, but ill bring it up here too.

AFRCC does not fund anyones operations. afrcc tasks many different agencies, and aske that they work out funding based upon MOU's

What we consider afrcc reimbursments actually comes from our original appropriation.  That money is budgeted by cap for .....

A missions
training missions
O rides

sorry to interupt

[mynetdude]

^ I don't consider that an interruption, just a simple layman's terms of the whole thread.


Now I'll get ya'll be interested to see what I have to say now.  We just had our planning meeting for the May SAREX and I am just appalled at how wing handles ops plans from the units and such forth not that there is anything wrong with it but these people are getting in way over their heads.

We are hoping to do a fairly large SAREX involving 6 planes in a local area of not more than 50-80 miles from my home unit.  Sure I've seen SAREXs with 7-12 air sorties but all spread out across the state, we're talking about in a local area where we'll have so many sorties (including ground sorties).

The commander and his advisor were making a point that ORWG wants them to do it one way while our guys are trying to do it by regs and there seems to be a "problem" with the ops plan "format".   So of course, naturally I brought up WIMIRS and the commander said "oh we don't do our ops plan on WIMIRS we do our own" (so yeah I rolled my eyes on this one).

However I do know our SAREX for April and May are both "A" funded. I don't know if WIMIRS would show that or not since everybody has their own way of doing an ops plan.

[RiverAux]

Other than inputting some basic data about the event and uploading a PDF of the op-plan, you don't really use WMIRS as a planning tool. 

[Major Carrales]

As I see it, the money needs to be used to accomplish the mission while at the mission.  If you use your personal vehicle on the mission, you should get reimbursed.

However, travel to and from SARex activity is beyond the scope of that.  Units I have visited for a SARex have set up a floor or sleeping bags or other lodging involving cots.  One member once submitted a very pricy 108 that involved lots of gas, an overnight stay in a more than adequate hotel (notice not MOTEL).  As I was informed, it was rejected.

I, for one, never ask for money when goingto the SARex.  It seems like a sacrifice I will make instead of the TAXPAYERS.  Normally we CARPOOL and split expenses.

With the distances I travel to DSARexs, and the price of gas I "consume" these days, they could pay for another hour of flying.  Call me crazy or fiscally conservative; have it your way.

[mynetdude]

As I see it, the money needs to be used to accomplish the mission while at the mission.  If you use your personal vehicle on the mission, you should get reimbursed.

However, travel to and from SARex activity is beyond the scope of that.  Units I have visited for a SARex have set up a floor or sleeping bags or other lodging involving cots.  One member once submitted a very pricy 108 that involved lots of gas, an overnight stay in a more than adequate hotel (notice not MOTEL).  As I was informed, it was rejected.

I, for one, never ask for money when goingto the SARex.  It seems like a sacrifice I will make instead of the TAXPAYERS.  Normally we CARPOOL and split expenses.

With the distances I travel to DSARexs, and the price of gas I "consume" these days, they could pay for another hour of flying.  Call me crazy or fiscally conservative; have it your way.

Well TBH with you, its either or I don't mind paying for one or the other. If they want to pay for lodging or provide it free then I'll pay for the fuel or if they pay for the fuel then I have no problem paying for lodging.

HOWEVER most if not all SAREXs I go on, I never have to spend the night because I live close enough.  And again, if I went ONCE to a SAREX I could care less about reimbursement its only $15 round trip.  If I had to go 3-4 times a week during the course of 4 weeks I'd like at least 3/4 of that reimbursed since I don't need lodging for local SAREXs anyway.

In May there is a SAREX they are providing lodging I could stay there and depending on whether there is enough SM staff I may end up staying with them and then I can reduce the cost of my fuel as I will stay at the lodging where the cadets will be staying rather than having to pay $30, it will only be $15 since I would not need to make a 2nd round trip.

[mynetdude]

^ I don't consider that an interruption, just a simple layman's terms of the whole thread.


Now I'll get ya'll be interested to see what I have to say now.  We just had our planning meeting for the May SAREX and I am just appalled at how wing handles ops plans from the units and such forth not that there is anything wrong with it but these people are getting in way over their heads.

We are hoping to do a fairly large SAREX involving 6 planes in a local area of not more than 50-80 miles from my home unit.  Sure I've seen SAREXs with 7-12 air sorties but all spread out across the state, we're talking about in a local area where we'll have so many sorties (including ground sorties).

The commander and his advisor were making a point that ORWG wants them to do it one way while our guys are trying to do it by regs and there seems to be a "problem" with the ops plan "format".   So of course, naturally I brought up WIMIRS and the commander said "oh we don't do our ops plan on WIMIRS we do our own" (so yeah I rolled my eyes on this one).

However I do know our SAREX for April and May are both "A" funded. I don't know if WIMIRS would show that or not since everybody has their own way of doing an ops plan.

This is to inform the CAPTalk forum and my superiors at the squadron, wing and region echelons my public apology, especially to my commander and his advisor.

First I'd like to acknowledge the above post/comments were not appropriate and implies I called the said persons a liar even though that was not my intent.  I could and should have reworded it properly to not imply anyone was wrong or a liar and secondly information that I received from such meetings should not have been disclosed according to OPSEC requirements.

Secondly, I realize such comments as these are offensive to the persons implicated and involved; it was not my intent to offend or cause harm to such persons.  As I've said before I try my best to improve my personna even though being who you are is what you are and doesn't mean you can't improve upon it.

I try my best to state the facts acurately, or exclude the facts or partial facts that I have no concrete knowledge or understanding of which may include facts that are to be only given to those with a need to know.

I also want to thank whomever reported this post/comment to the proper echelon, this does not change the fact there are consequences of my actions verbally, written or physically. That being said, I fully accept responsibility of my actions and the resulting consequence of promotion to 1Lt being held for 90 days with no further corrective actions being taken between now and the next time I become eligible for promotion.

I will be extremely limiting my posting and involvement in various duty positions and/or events involving OPSEC requirements so that I am not oblidged with severe responsibilities and risks that come with said event/duty position.

Thank you for your time in reading my apology and for your support in CAP.

Shannon M

[mikeylikey]

^ One reason I do not post who I am.  I am sorry about your idiotic CoC holding your promotion.  It is not warranted. 

I would also like to remind everyone reading this, that there have been individuals sued civilly by people because of what they have posted on CAPTALK.  It is terrible that we can not even post our sincerest feelings without threat of civil suit or worse. 

I hope you will continue to post here.  So did your CoC say that they want to see everything you post from now on?  Idiots....... lets see them hold up my promotions now. 

[mynetdude]

^ One reason I do not post who I am.  I am sorry about your idiotic CoC holding your promotion.  It is not warranted. 

I would also like to remind everyone reading this, that there have been individuals sued civilly by people because of what they have posted on CAPTALK.  It is terrible that we can not even post our sincerest feelings without threat of civil suit or worse. 

I hope you will continue to post here.  So did your CoC say that they want to see everything you post from now on?  Idiots....... lets see them hold up my promotions now. 

Haha no, that'd be a privacy violation I hope

Thats exactly why I recently removed my signature I see now why too 

[isuhawkeye]

just because your signature is not present, don't assume people dont know who you are

[mynetdude]

just because your signature is not present, don't assume people dont know who you are

Never said that, there are plenty who already know however I am sure some will forget and anyone in the future will not have a clue unless told otherwise.