How we help an urban area

[flyguy06]

Ok, I want to get my cadets active in ES. We meet in the heart of a metropolitan city (Atlanta). My cadets arent really interested in going to the woods or survival stuff, plus we dont really have the resources for that anyway.

We do have access to the county Fire department Headquarters. I want to start a relationship with them. They have a big conference room we may be able to meet at. They are also headqutered on a municipal airport which is the environment I want us to be in.

In exchange for them lettingus use their facilities, I want to be able to ofer them something. What type of things do you think  we can offer them? What type of urban ES stuff can we get the cadets involved in? So, instead of getting the call and getting 24 hour gear and going out to the woods, I wonder what we can offer the urban type units? I know back in 1992 when we had a major storm, we manned the EOC downtown. thats was fun. We assisted people and took messages and things lke that. I wonder what things we can do today though?

[Eclipse]

First, you need to contact your state director or Wing ES officer to discuss any existing MOU's which may preclude / authorize / encourage local ES activity.

You should also discuss your intentions with the Group CC & ESO (if you have them).

Next, take a stock of your members' current ES qualifications, and how those may or may not intersect with the anticipated requests from the FD or the city at large.  Bear in mind that decisions regarding use of a facility may be out of the hands of the local chief, and you should probably plan a joint presentation to city officials.

Remember, the physical ability to perform a function does not mean CAP will authorize you to do it, or it may require you have specific CAP quals in order to be authorized for mission duty.  I could see MSA's being useful in an EOC, but because of rules we have regarding comms, MRO's may or may not be allowed to play on their radios, etc.  Its got to be within CAP's mission for us to play.

As an example, after recent tornadoes here, CAP flew aerial recon missions and provided photo product and transport to a federal agency, however on the ground our state EMA was the lead agency and our MOU precludes local agencies from calling CAP directly once the state EMA is involved.  Further, the local municipalities requested assistance from a CAP unit in its town,  unfortunately, not only was there no one in the unit qualified to do any Ground ES at all (very few even GES), but the mission they asked for was cleanup of debris which is something CAP does not do.

Once you have a handle on the above, familiarize yourself with the NOC call-in procedures and reimbursement policies and rules so you can speak from authority.  I would again suggest your State Director  get involved in this as they know the rules and have some say in spending money.

If your unit is not currently ground capable, you might consider a group-level agreement to respond in this area while you ramp up your own qualifications.

The last thing you want to do it make promises you know you can't keep and then be left saying "no" when something "exciting" happens in your town.

[flyguy06]

You are soooooo right about that. I want to come with somethingto offer. Right now, I am the only ES quaklified person in my unit. But I have done the SET so I get the others at least GES. I am a mission Observer but I dont know if I can teach MSA or not.

The conferesnce room is used for thepublic anyway, so that shouldnt be too much of a headache. the problem is they dont like to open it up at night and we meet at night. There is a mini police preceinct at the airport where retired polices officers patrol the area. They have keys to the Fire dept. HQ bldg . I am going to try and arrange for them to let us in and lock up at night if the county agrees with that plan.

[RiverAux]

I'm not sure you're going to be able to offer them much specifically, but it doesn't hurt asking.

But, your larger question of CAP ES activities in urban areas is worth some discussion.  Our ground team training is pretty focused on wilderness SAR and ELTs, neither of which are going to be of much interest in urban areas.  Perhaps we need to add a few urban lost-person search tasks to our training?

One thing that could come in useful is shelter management.  That is useful skill both following disasters (rare) and more typical emergencies such as extreme heat or cold situations.  The Red Cross would be your primary partner in that area.   

[flyguy06]

Funny you shoudl mention that. One of our Squadron members has a lady friend who works for the American Red Cross and he brought her to the meeting last week. She is going to help us get a First responder course set up

[afgeo4]

Ok, I want to get my cadets active in ES. We meet in the heart of a metropolitan city (Atlanta). My cadets arent really interested in going to the woods or survival stuff, plus we dont really have the resources for that anyway.

We do have access to the county Fire department Headquarters. I want to start a relationship with them. They have a big conference room we may be able to meet at. They are also headqutered on a municipal airport which is the environment I want us to be in.

In exchange for them lettingus use their facilities, I want to be able to ofer them something. What type of things do you think  we can offer them? What type of urban ES stuff can we get the cadets involved in? So, instead of getting the call and getting 24 hour gear and going out to the woods, I wonder what we can offer the urban type units? I know back in 1992 when we had a major storm, we manned the EOC downtown. thats was fun. We assisted people and took messages and things lke that. I wonder what things we can do today though?

Have you thought of focusing training on DR? Have you thought of forming a CERT team? SAR is pretty irrelevant in high density urban areas because most see the aircraft when it goes down and local first responders are able to locate and deal with the incident rather effectively. However, urban areas are often in need of Disaster services. Being prepared and being able to prepare your neighbors/community are the best ways to assist. It is also a good deterrent of terrorism.

The less of an impact a terrorist attack will have on us, the attractive of a tactic it will be.

[Eclipse]

CAP doesn't deploy CERT teams.

The training may be helpful or complement CAP training, but it won't get his people operational from a CAP standpoint.

He needs to ramp up GTM's and base staff in order to be able to answer the phone. 

Why?  Because that's what we do and have. Whether its specifically appropriate to an urban environment is besides the point.

That doesn't mean that they can't do CERT-esque duties, as long as the NOC approved the mission.

[afgeo4]

CAP doesn't deploy CERT teams.

The training may be helpful or complement CAP training, but it won't get his people operational from a CAP standpoint.

He needs to ramp up GTM's and base staff in order to be able to answer the phone. 

Why?  Because that's what we do and have. Whether its specifically appropriate to an urban environment is besides the point.

That doesn't mean that they can't do CERT-esque duties, as long as the NOC approved the mission.

There is nothing in regulations that precludes CAP from acting as a CERT team when needed. Furthermore, the primary duty of a CERT team is education of community. A role that CAP units can certainly perform. Not to mention that CERT certifications do carry some weight with local and federal agencies, at least when it comes to DR.

I too live in a very dense urban area (NYC) and I can promise you that we don't and wont do ground team work here. Why? Because it's absurd. What do you want us to do? Respond to calls of lost tourists in Central Park? UDF teams are organized to shut off whatever EPIRBS and ELTs may go off, but GTM? Yeah, it's nice to have it for a badge, but there's no real need for it in large cities and never will be.

[Eclipse]

There is nothing in regulations that precludes CAP from acting as a CERT team when needed.

The NOC may when the agency asks them for support and indicates what their duty may be.

I think you're missing my point here.  I won't argue that our GT ratings are more inclined to non-urban situations, (though I would also argue that the self-sufficiency instilled in GTM's is more the point than the camping part.). The issue is that GTM is the only thing we have internal to CAP that is even close to deployable in those situations.

If River's FD calls the NOC and gets a mission assignment, and his people don't have CAP ES ground qualifications, they can have all the CERT training in the world and CAP will not allow them to go.

There's certainly room for discussion that there needs to be a "UDR" rating, akin to UDF, for situations such as this, but today we don't have one.

I know some IC's will allow UDF-qual'ed members to deploy in these arenas, but that makes me nervous, especially if we're talking trainees, because the UDF-T fam/prep is a phone tree and some pencils.

Arguments could also be made that putting MSA's in a shelter to help is appropriate, I'll entertain those points, anyway, but until we get something specific to the situation, we have to go with what we have.

YMMV, but I know from experience that good GTM-1's and L's can be dropped just about anywhere and be a mission asset within CAP's operational limitations. The further down you go, or the harder you push into trainee status and the more time you spend managing the team's needs instead of your customers.  If nothing else I have a pretty good idea that they will be self-sufficient for their own safety and personal needs (food, clothing, equipment), so they can concentrate on their duties.

The other risk, and this is internal to CAP from a retention standpoint, is if you point CAP people at CERT training, local EMA's and similar, you stand a chance that they will see more regular hands on involvement with less bureaucracy, and decide to spend their free time there.

I've seen it happen all too often.

In comment to our being needed in large cities like NY, Chicago or LA.  The simple answer is, we're not.  Those municipalities have more than enough ES/EMS capabilities with plenty of professional people. Where we get the work in my wing is the mid-to-smaller towns and villages where the resources are thinner and they depend much more on mutual aid.

[sarmed1]

A few thoughts come to mind.

Dont sell a capability you dont have, dont tell people you can do SAR/DR or any multitude of other tasks untill you have the personnel, training and equipment to do it (and probablly test the theory out in a SAREX type atmosphere, to work the kinks out)

GES is not even a base level of training (its again more of an orientation to how we do things)  I will always reccomend GTM (at least GTM2) training be the backbone of any program, then "specialize" from there based on your target missions and customer. Yes given there may not be a "need" in your home town, but CAP is a bigger organization than your backyard, there is at least an entire wing you are also supporting and may be called upon to deploy mission assets with.  I would shy away from CERT as you base or only certification, most EMA, Fire, EMS and Police do not look on it as a true certification (at best its an awareness level training)  It's an ok addition ot GTM qual, but it would be better to get seperate trainnig/qualification in the inclusive components...(ie hazmat, first aid, fire suppresison, USAR)

Regardless of what direction you go with I would include the following as course work even if all you do is get everyone GES "qualified"
CPR/AED certification
First Aid Certification (40hour is the best)
Hazardous Materials Awareness level
ICS 200 level
NIMS 700 & NRP 800
Some kind of Intro to Terrorism/WMD

Disaster Relief ops would still be a good nich to try to train for.  CAP has not seen fit to develop a specific "disaster relief" qualification (I imagine in part due to the varied mission specific needs by geographic location) but there are a number of posts here on some of the facets to work on...most are safety related (ie keep your butt out of danger rather than an operational "rescue" capability).  The Red Cross has a couple of courses that are very usefull:
     Intro to disaster Operations
     Shelter Management
     Damage Assessment

If you are going to stick with the "CAP" mission.  I would make sure you can field a number of qualified (and capable and equiped) mission radio operators.  Equally everyone should have a good idea of how CAP aviation assets are deployed and utilized and how to interface with them.  Not to make us out to be anything uber-special, but fixed wing SAR and observation platforms is one thing we pretty much have the market on.  SAR guys are a dime a dozen, but finding a SAR guy that has the direct line to the overhead airplane makes us a bit more valuable, be it on the ground or in the EOC. (kind of like in Army land with TAC-P/FAC)

mk

[SStradley]

Ok, I want to get my cadets active in ES. We meet in the heart of a metropolitan city (Atlanta). My cadets arent really interested in going to the woods or survival stuff, plus we dont really have the resources for that anyway.

We do have access to the county Fire department Headquarters. I want to start a relationship with them. They have a big conference room we may be able to meet at. They are also headqutered on a municipal airport which is the environment I want us to be in.

In exchange for them lettingus use their facilities, I want to be able to ofer them something. What type of things do you think  we can offer them? What type of urban ES stuff can we get the cadets involved in? So, instead of getting the call and getting 24 hour gear and going out to the woods, I wonder what we can offer the urban type units? I know back in 1992 when we had a major storm, we manned the EOC downtown. thats was fun. We assisted people and took messages and things lke that. I wonder what things we can do today though?

I think your and the cadets interest in ES is exceptionally commendable.  I recommend that you begin by building up your own ES skills (and ratings).  As you know cadets (until 18) are restricted to ground ops.  Therefore, to lead them in ES you should learn the skills (and ratings) of UDF and GTL as well as MSA and FLM.

Don't sell these skills short.  If you want to deploy in an emergency, you need to be able to function for at least 24 hours without outside support (GT3), and 72 hours is a more usefull (realistic) time frame.  Consider this from the (ourside CAP) IC's view.  If you go to the Fire dept. and let them know that you have a team of trained MSA's who can assist his Branch Directors in any number of tasks, that they all have trained thro ICS-200, and are self supporting for 72 hours, you are more likely to get a call and a job.  Even, if that job is to answer phones and get drinks at the start.  As your cadets prove their capabilities, they will soon be looked to for other jobs.   However, it the IC thinks "just what I need (not), a bunch of kids under foot; how will I feed them, what are their needs ... The answer will be "Thanks but no thanks".

An important part of this is training with your "client".  Let the cadets prove how they can help before there is a need.

But in order to do this you need to lead them.  And in order for you to lead them in Ground and Mission Base skills you need to learn them and get the ratings yourself.

Again, it sounds like you have a great opportunity here.  Go for it.

[isuhawkeye]

http://www.shop.eri-online.com/product.sc?categoryId=1&productId=8
here you go

[flyguy06]

Ok, I want to get my cadets active in ES. We meet in the heart of a metropolitan city (Atlanta). My cadets arent really interested in going to the woods or survival stuff, plus we dont really have the resources for that anyway.

We do have access to the county Fire department Headquarters. I want to start a relationship with them. They have a big conference room we may be able to meet at. They are also headqutered on a municipal airport which is the environment I want us to be in.

In exchange for them lettingus use their facilities, I want to be able to ofer them something. What type of things do you think  we can offer them? What type of urban ES stuff can we get the cadets involved in? So, instead of getting the call and getting 24 hour gear and going out to the woods, I wonder what we can offer the urban type units? I know back in 1992 when we had a major storm, we manned the EOC downtown. thats was fun. We assisted people and took messages and things lke that. I wonder what things we can do today though?

Have you thought of focusing training on DR? Have you thought of forming a CERT team? SAR is pretty irrelevant in high density urban areas because most see the aircraft when it goes down and local first responders are able to locate and deal with the incident rather effectively. However, urban areas are often in need of Disaster services. Being prepared and being able to prepare your neighbors/community are the best ways to assist. It is also a good deterrent of terrorism.

The less of an impact a terrorist attack will have on us, the attractive of a tactic it will be.

Would you mind telling me what a CERT team is? I dont do well with acronyms I have never heard of

[flyguy06]

I realize that everyone on here likes to type shorthand and use abbreviations, but when you are discussing a topic with someone that has been out of the game for a while and youusde acronyms like CERT, MSA, and others, you have to clarify what those mean. because Ihave no idea.

I used to be a Ground team Leader back in 1994 before the SQTR's came out. I am an Infantry Officer so I dont think I'll have too much problem with GTM3 and GTL qualifications.

You are right. I would not sell a capability I do not have. I like the idea of getting basic first aid, AED, and shelter management training. I think we could help our local EMA and Red Cross with any trainingneeds they have.

Thanks for the tips guys. I really appreciate them.

[Eclipse]

CERT - Community Emergency Response Team

is a group of volunteer emergency workers who have received basic training in disaster preparedness, disaster fire suppression, basic disaster medical operations, light search and rescue, and team operations. They are designed to act as an auxiliary to existing emergency responders in the event of a major disaster.

It shoudl be noted that the order of care for a CERT situation is generally "self", "family", "neighborhood".

CERT is as much about not being a burden as being a help.  The former can be just as important in a big disaster situation.

[afgeo4]

CERT - Community Emergency Response Team

is a group of volunteer emergency workers who have received basic training in disaster preparedness, disaster fire suppression, basic disaster medical operations, light search and rescue, and team operations. They are designed to act as an auxiliary to existing emergency responders in the event of a major disaster.

It shoudl be noted that the order of care for a CERT situation is generally "self", "family", "neighborhood".

CERT is as much about not being a burden as being a help.  The former can be just as important in a big disaster situation.

Noted. That is actually the order for all first responders. It is the FIRST thing they teach you in First Aid as well. At all costs, avoid becoming another victim.

[afgeo4]

I realize that everyone on here likes to type shorthand and use abbreviations, but when you are discussing a topic with someone that has been out of the game for a while and youusde acronyms like CERT, MSA, and others, you have to clarify what those mean. because Ihave no idea.

I used to be a Ground team Leader back in 1994 before the SQTR's came out. I am an Infantry Officer so I dont think I'll have too much problem with GTM3 and GTL qualifications.

You are right. I would not sell a capability I do not have. I like the idea of getting basic first aid, AED, and shelter management training. I think we could help our local EMA and Red Cross with any trainingneeds they have.

Thanks for the tips guys. I really appreciate them.

CERT - Community Emergency Response Team (all volunteer DR teams based on neighborhood lines)
MSA - Mission Staff Assistant (general assistant to all at a mission base).

Odds are, your local Red Cross wont want your help. They get funding based on membership, so they will try to recruit you. They will tell you that only Red Cross certified trainers are allowed to teach Red Cross classes. They will probably charge you for classes you take yourself too.

[Eclipse]

Odds are, your local Red Cross wont want your help.

Odds are you would be wrong.

My state now regularly performs this exact type of assistance to the ARC, specifically providing shelter personnel and performing disaster assessment missions.

http://ilcapnews.blogs.com/il_cap_news_blog/2007/08/civil-air-patro.html

[flyguy06]

CERT - Community Emergency Response Team

is a group of volunteer emergency workers who have received basic training in disaster preparedness, disaster fire suppression, basic disaster medical operations, light search and rescue, and team operations. They are designed to act as an auxiliary to existing emergency responders in the event of a major disaster.

It shoudl be noted that the order of care for a CERT situation is generally "self", "family", "neighborhood".

CERT is as much about not being a burden as being a help.  The former can be just as important in a big disaster situation.

Thanks. I have never heard of them, but after reading the definition, it makes me want to ask a totally unrelated question.

Since a lot of CAP members (especiually the ones that post on here) are interested in Emergency Responce, why dont you all join CERT instead of CAP? Not trying to be insulting. I am genuinlly curious about that. It seems that they do mainly what you ES gurus like.

[flyguy06]

I just did some reading up on CERT. It seems a lotof the surrounding counties in my area including our uints county have CERT training. It looks interesting and something I am going to look into. We could man EOC's and help out during Hurricane season or when severe wintter weather hits here.

[RiverAux]

I don't think the CERT program has really proven itself as of yet for its primary purpose of helping neighbors in your own community.  Some folks are apparently wanting to transform it beyond that into more "deployable" units.  That is also fine, but it isn't what it is designed for.  It provides just enough training for people to address fairly straightforward local situations, but nowhere near enough training to be of real use for anything else. 

[isuhawkeye]

 :clap:

[Eclipse]

My friend who is a local PD and CERT coordinator says that the team(s) he's seen are about what you would expect when a group of neighbors get together and take a few first aid and related classes.

Nice in a pinch, but not exactly John Gage and Roy Desoto...

[floridacyclist]

They're not supposed to be John and Roy...and we're not exactly Rampart either. When the Groundhog Day tornadoes tore up The Villages and Volusia County, the FD was not allowed in until daylight because of all the debris and power lines in the streets. Until they could get in, CERT was all there was.

There is a new ES Specialty Track in the 60-3 draft called CERT...the basic qualification would be to be CERT-ified. Nobody seems to be sure exactly how we would use them, but that sounds like a good start to any DR training program. FL Wing used to have a 101DR certification for all DR responders, but that kind of faded away; I think that the new CERT might work along the same lines, as a basic prerequisite to working in a disaster zone. Given that much of the CERT training focuses on how to stay alive during and after a disaster, it seems very appropriate for any team that is planning to venture outside their homes after a disaster and before things are back to normal. I would definitely want it even for a team that does nothing more than pass out water, food, and ice at a POD (Point of Distribution).

[afgeo4]

CERT is a volunteer, neighborhood based organization trained to be activated by local and federal OEMs. However, they do not work with cadets. They do not do SAR, Counter Narcotics, Homeland Security and other missions we do. They also don't fly. Nor do they have a cadet program. They do not perform Aerospace Education.

In all, they are nothing like CAP. CAP's primary missions are Aerospace Ed, Emergency Services and Cadet Programs. Disaster relief and preparation for it are the sole missions of CERT while those jobs are just part of our extensive ES mission.

In short, we do a heck of a lot more than CERT does. However, CAP members may join CERT to train for DR and CAP unis can qualify to become CERT teams on their own. I'm not quite clear on which activation takes precedence though during an emergency. Does CAP override CERT or the other way around? I presume since they're both volunteer organizations, the member gets to choose what he/she wants to activate for. I wouldn't mind clarification on that though.

Any people here CERT team members?

[davedove]

I always understood that CERT teams activated themselves.  Their job is to do emergency lifesaving and such before the responders arrive.

[floridacyclist]

We don't have an organized CERT team here, but my family and I have all been through the CERT TTT class and are certified to teach the class. We simply have too much on our plates to take on the role of trying to organize the neighborhood although I think it would be an excellent idea.

[flyguy06]

I think CERT would be good for CAP. Too many people in CAP think they are Johnny Ranger SAR God. CERT is a group of volunteers. CAP is a group of volunteers.

CAP goes out to the woods and looks for lost airplanes. thats great. CERT does more DR stuff. thats great. Guess what? CAP has a DR mission as well. Look at Katrina. CAP was all up in that. NO ELT searches, just good plain DR stuff and we did a good job from what I read inthe paper ( I was in Iraq at the time unfortunantly).

SO, I have no problem having my cadets work in an EOC, nab radios or do a radio log for Fire, PD, and EMS and other agencies. Its a good character building excercise. We all dont want to grab our "gear" and get ina long line and tramp through the woods. That doesnt make you better than someon that works in a Disater shelter. Its all about serivce to your fellow human being.

[RiverAux]

I think everybody is for CAP getting more involved on the ground in disaster relief. 

However, our GT program is far superior in regards to SAR.
Take a First Aid Class and you'll actually have a useful certificiation that you won't get from the CERT med section.
Add some disaster psychology and thats the CERT program.

So, why waste time diverting somebody into CERT when our program, with the addition of a First Aid class gives you a much more qualified person? 

[Major Lord]

CERT volunteers  must be 18 years old and pass a criminal background check. That pretty much eliminates Cadets from participation. During Katrina, CAP cadets were not allowed to play. I think your chances of getting CAP to buy into cross-training members as CERT is about as likely as their authorizing medical people to provide disaster medical services....

Emergency Services is not one of the requirements of the Cadet Program. There is however, a need for Cadets and Seniors in the urban realm in UDF. Why try to create a new mission when my guess if that you are not keeping up with the basic UDF needs of the community, and utilizing cadets in this "entry level" ES position?

Major Lord

[RiverAux]

Well, UDF is not a major mission in all urban areas, even quite large ones with major airports. 

[Major Lord]

I certainly agree, although a large number of UDF missions go unprosecuted throughout the country, and are assumed by other agencies. While our friend in the inner city could potentially train cadets in CERT ( they woud have to carve out an exception to their policy, which CAP would almost certainly be called on to endorse and insure....) They could NEVER run a mission under CAP auspices. Training cadets to run missions which they are prohibited from participating in seems pointless and cruel.

Cadets can run Ground Team Missions. Why not train them to do what we actually do, instead of trying to carve out a new "Explorer" program out of whole cloth? These cadets are apparently afraid of forests, but who is to say that if they actually see one, they may feel otherwise?

Major Lord

[RiverAux]

Where are you getting stuff about training cadets to run missions?  Never seen that proposed before. 

[flyguy06]

I think everybody is for CAP getting more involved on the ground in disaster relief. 

However, our GT program is far superior in regards to SAR.
Take a First Aid Class and you'll actually have a useful certificiation that you won't get from the CERT med section.
Add some disaster psychology and thats the CERT program.

So, why waste time diverting somebody into CERT when our program, with the addition of a First Aid class gives you a much more qualified person?

How many missions have you been on where you actuially had to use First Aid? In my exoerience when I was acadet, all the missions I went on, First Aid wasnt neccessary. It was usually too late.

Who said my cadets were afraid of the forests? I said they arent interested in going to the woods. Plus we dont have the resources to train up a Garound Team. I am not GT certified. So, who is going to do it? We dont have a practice ELT nor do we have a DF. So, again, who is going to train this Ground Team and where do we get the resources? We don thave enough people to do a fund raising event. We have to use the resources we have on hand.

Tags - MIKE

[isuhawkeye]

where did you say you were?

[Eclipse]

Plus we dont have the resources to train up a Garound Team. I am not GT certified. So, who is going to do it?

We dont have a practice ELT nor do we have a DF. So, again, who is going to train this Ground Team and where do we get the resources?

Download the task guides and start working through the parts one at a time.  When you're ready, request
that an SET come down to see you.

You can get a whole lot done before you ever need to touch a beacon or an l-per, and when you're ready you can borrow one.

[RiverAux]

How many missions have you been on where you actuially had to use First Aid? In my exoerience when I was acadet, all the missions I went on, First Aid wasnt neccessary. It was usually too late.

None.  My point was that the CERT training program has a first aid component and that a CAP ground team member who has completed a Basic First Aid class would have exceeded the CERT member by having an actual recognized first aid certification. 

[afgeo4]

I think everybody is for CAP getting more involved on the ground in disaster relief. 

However, our GT program is far superior in regards to SAR.
Take a First Aid Class and you'll actually have a useful certificiation that you won't get from the CERT med section.
Add some disaster psychology and thats the CERT program.

So, why waste time diverting somebody into CERT when our program, with the addition of a First Aid class gives you a much more qualified person? 

1. GTM qualification doesn't require a "certified" class. Any first aid/buddy aid class will do. There is no specification on what type it has to be. It also doesn't require CPR/AED. Most people on the street/office building have more certification than that, so what's your point?

2. Y'all still miss the point here. THERE IS NO SAR IN DENSE URBAN AREAS! Forget it. It doesn't exist. Sure, you can train for it. Train some more. Then some more... sure, it builds character... for a while... until you start questioning what good you are fully trained and ready to go with hundreds of dollars spent on gear and training. Then a disaster happens and you figure out that you really aren't useful with your shelter building and survival skills because you have no idea of how to work in an urban disaster zone which DOES require special skills and knowledge. So then you sit on you sofa, like a goof, wishing you'd been prepared. Much like those CERT people who are out there doing what they're meant to do.

The challenge is to custom tailor your training to your mission and your mission to your environment. That's something we haven't done yet.


ECLIPSE... where's the SET going to come from? The skies? In most rural areas, squadrons are separated by tens if not hundreds of miles. On top of that, someone in the other squadron has to be trained, current, SET qualified, available, and willing to come and train you... a few times. That's a lot of "ifs" for a basic qualification and a process you're going to have to re-do over again in a couple of years.

[Eclipse]

2. Y'all still miss the point here. THERE IS NO SAR IN DENSE URBAN AREAS! Forget it. It doesn't exist.

Metro Chicago?  No.

Boone County, IL, 90 minutes away?  Yes.

Where do most of the members live?  Somewhere in-between.

ECLIPSE... where's the SET going to come from? The skies?

Yes, quite literally. Last time I checked, we had the largest private fleet of general aviation aircraft in the world, with plenty of pilots dying to fly.

In most rural areas, squadrons are separated by tens if not hundreds of miles. On top of that, someone in the other squadron has to be trained, current, SET qualified, available, and willing to come and train you... a few times. That's a lot of "ifs" for a basic qualification and a process you're going to have to re-do over again in a couple of years.

So, you can sit and complain about how there is no way to get started, or you can grab the book, teach yourselves, and then arrange for a good SET to come down and work with you.

In the meantime, your people are learning something, doing what they joined for, and preparing themselves to answer the door when opportunity knocks.

If you do this on or over a weekend as the culmination of a training cycle (oh, say quarterly), even the gas doesn't cost that much, and split across 10 or 20 people, is nothing, if you consider that they may walk away from the weekend operational or close to it.

And don't forget your wing has a training budget for exactly this kind of situation.

By the next time you need to requal, yo should be self-sufficient and be able to do the stuff on your own.

Also, some of this stuff doesn't even require the physical presence of the SET.  If in the world of SKYPE, free video conferencing, and unlimited cel minutes you can't figure out a way to remotely task the fam & prep for
UDF-T, well you're just making excuses.

People complete entire college educations via correspondence courses, connecting with motivated CAP people to get some start-up training and build a program isn't nearly as hard.

You can make excuses, or make a plan.  Whether you want to is the issue.

[floridacyclist]

CERT volunteers  must be 18 years old and pass a criminal background check. That pretty much eliminates Cadets from participation. During Katrina, CAP cadets were not allowed to play. I think your chances of getting CAP to buy into cross-training members as CERT is about as likely as their authorizing medical people to provide disaster medical services....

I somehow doubt that CERT-trained CAP members are expected to report in uniform to work under the command of the Hootin Holler Homeowner's Association CERT team, but rather to use their training to fulfill CAP's DR roles; as stated before, it would be excellent training as a base level for anyone working in a disaster area.

The 18yo and background check rule is required of members of established CERT teams and even that is not iron-clad as can be seen at http://www.teencert.org/

Teaching our cadets to react appropriately even outside a mission should be a good thing, not something to be spit on simply because it doesn't mesh with someone's idea of ES. If our cadets can start coordinating and assisting with Teen CERT classes at their schools, is that such a bad thing?

In Katrina, the decision was made that the overall disaster zone was too hazardous for cadets. It was a one-time decision affecting that incident only, not a blanket decision for all disasters. Could they do it again? Sure....if things were that bad again. Most disasters are nowhere near the scale of Katrina thank God. Even so, cadets could still work mission base and communications, they were just not allowed out in the field on the roving teams. Why they were not put to work as mission base personnel is beyond me unless someone in their infinite wisdom had made a decision that that kind of training was too boring for cadets and that they could make better use of their time training on search and rescue since some feel that is the only mission they are supposed to do.

Let's face it...UDF is practically dead, if not where you live then definitely where we are. We have not been called on a UDF mission in almost 6 months now simply because most ELTs are turned off by their owners after receiving a call from AFRCC. Trying to get cadets interested in getting really good with an elper is getting harder and harder, but for some odd reason they seem to think that basic disaster training might be at least a little relevant around here. We have the qualified people to cover our missions and most of our cadets are almost to the GTM3 level thanks to our GTM academy (2 weekends of training followed by a weekend of exercise and evaluation), so it's not like we'd be sacrificing our ability to perform bread-and-butter missions in favor of playing DR gods.

[Eclipse]

UDF does not equal "mini-GTM", and people need to understand that.  While many of the tasks are shared with GTM, the intention and operational abilities are different for a reason.

If its dead by you, well, that's too bad - we get plenty of work up here, in fact the majority of day-to-day ELT missions (once you actually know the totality of the situation) are more appropriately geared to UDF than GTM's.  In most cases we spin a mixture of teams.

The single greatest thing about UDF from a "get involved" standpoint is that with two simple taskings, (basically a conversation about being called-up and some map tools in a baggie), a member is operationally qualified to participate in real missions and earn find ribbons.  Say what you want about uniform bling, but if you happen to catch the cycle and have a cadet (or senior) who get UDF-T and then within a reasonably short period nails a find, they are likely hooked on ES for life.

In 30 miuntes you can be ready and able to do what you joined to do, and then while doing it you can increase your real skills and quals.

As to CERT, like first responder classes, this is excellent complimentary training to the GT curriculum, however its not necessary for CAP members to assist along side of them.  There's no reason our people could not be typed on the same page with the CERT people and called up at the same time (though the NOC).

CERT is designed to be neighbors being self-sufficient and helping each other to relieve the burden on professional ES.  By no means is it a deployable force.

Trying to make CERT deployable turns it into something else which it is not intended to be.

[isuhawkeye]

everyone is so hyped up on CERT.  what ever happened to the red cross disaster cridentials including damage assessment,  shelter ops,  and others?

[floridacyclist]

I agree with you 100%. A CERT team is not supposed to be deployable and I have issues with some of the CERT teams in S FL who are buying trailers and comm equipment out the wazoo so they can become volunteer disaster responders; granted, they are also training far beyond the CERT training too.

I remember the days of 2-3 missions a week; that was fun but this is now. I lied earlier, our last mission wasn't 6 months ago, it was 4 months ago. My 12yo and his mother were asked by the AFRCC to help a fisherman turn his EPIRB off as he could not get it off and he swore that was the only EPIRB he owned. They went out and found an older unit in his shed that he said had been declared non-functional; needless to say, it wasn't.

We train to GT standards as even GT trainees can run UDF missions under the supervision of a UDF or GTL....which all of our active SMs are, and the cadets enjoy the training every bit as much if not more. My fear of concentrating on training everyone to UDF is that with 500,000 acres of National Forest in our backyard (and 300,000 more halfway across our group plus lots of other woods in between), if a plane goes down or a child goes missing, all we'll have is a bunch of polo-shirt-wearing UDF members that are only useful for shuffling papers or making coffee at the mission base. UDF has it's place, and it's a great job for someone who is not interested in wilderness operations, but like you said many (including those higher up who should know better) confuse it with GT and that just isn't so.

At the same time, the self-reliance, self-confidence, and leadership abilities developed in wilderness SAR and survival training will help in so many other ways down the road that are totally unconnected to the original training. The same attitude that helps a cadet finish a 2-day SAR/survival exercise will come in handy when they are faced with a 16-credit courseload, 2 term papers due, an overdue phone bill, and their car just broke down.

As for the CERT training itself, training our cadets to react immediately and properly in an emergency is not only good citizenship, it can have lifesaving implications as well. Too often when someone's life is in danger, many people stand there with their mouths hanging open while someone who has trained and thought about emergencies will react - hopefully correctly.

Bottom line is, it's all good.

everyone is so hyped up on CERT.  what ever happened to the red cross disaster cridentials including damage assessment,  shelter ops,  and others?

Right now, our local chapter is going through a political meltdown phase and cannot be counted on for training or anything else beyond basic disaster needs (if you look that up, no I am not related to Chris Floyd). I have been looking at those too since I took on squadron and then group ES, but we have certain people at Wing saying that we can't do those missions. I haven't been pushing it until we get back from our ride this Summer and can concentrate...hopefully the new 60-3 will help with some re-thinking. As a parent of two ARC volunteers (one who received the Youth Volunteer of the Year), I think RC is a perfect opportunity for cadets to help out in disasters.

Either way, before the meltdown, Red Cross was our primary local provider of CERT training as well since they had the grant money and always taught CERT as part of their Teen Disaster College.

[jimmydeanno]

everyone is so hyped up on CERT.  what ever happened to the red cross disaster credentials including damage assessment,  shelter ops,  and others?

I asked the local red cross chapter if those courses were available.  They told me that they don't offer half of them any more (can't verify if it's true, but that's what I was told).  We did shelter management as a squadron and psychological first aid, first aid/cpr/aed, etc.

Our local DEM director asked us to complete the training so that he could call on us as shelter managers and operators.  We get quite a bit of flooding during the spring and the shelters are usually opened for at least a few weeks.  This even occurs in our 'urban' areas.  Most of them have rivers that flow through them since they were at one time mill towns.  So the rivers overflow their banks.

I think that cadets can prove to be a great asset in DR doing things like shelter operation, assisting in sandbag placement, etc.  In times of emergency, I don't think it's so much, what can we do to make CAP the lead agency, as much as it is - what can I get my squadron trained in so we can help - even if CAP isn't officially involved, the members will be able to offer their skills individually.

[davedove]

everyone is so hyped up on CERT.  what ever happened to the red cross disaster credentials including damage assessment,  shelter ops,  and others?

I asked the local red cross chapter if those courses were available.  They told me that they don't offer half of them any more (can't verify if it's true, but that's what I was told).  We did shelter management as a squadron and psychological first aid, first aid/cpr/aed, etc.

Our local DEM director asked us to complete the training so that he could call on us as shelter managers and operators.  We get quite a bit of flooding during the spring and the shelters are usually opened for at least a few weeks.  This even occurs in our 'urban' areas.  Most of them have rivers that flow through them since they were at one time mill towns.  So the rivers overflow their banks.

I think that cadets can prove to be a great asset in DR doing things like shelter operation, assisting in sandbag placement, etc.  In times of emergency, I don't think it's so much, what can we do to make CAP the lead agency, as much as it is - what can I get my squadron trained in so we can help - even if CAP isn't officially involved, the members will be able to offer their skills individually.

I can't speak about your local unit, but the Red Cross does still offer the courses.  Now, often the names of the courses have changed.