Testing night

[floridacyclist]

In your squadron, how is testing handled? Is it only on specific nights? Do cadets have to make an appointment in advance? Do they need any approvals from their chain of command to attempt a test? Are exceptions allowed?

[mikeylikey]

Usually we plan one night each month.  Usually later in the month so we can fit in classroom work, Moral Leadership and whatnot first.  Most of the SQD's I have been in have done it the same way.  No appointments needed to test, all the cadet does is report in to the testing officer at the required time.  Pass and Fail announcements are given at closing formation.  Promotions either that night, or the following week if time is limited.

[jeders]

We have testing twice a month for regular cadets and whenever wanted for command staff cadets. The cadets are informed that an upcoming meeting is a testing night and they, hopefully, show up to test. If not we march on. Pass/fail isn't announced, just told to the cadet in private, then if all the other requirements are met, they promote on the 4th week of the month.

[stillamarine]

Test once a month. If a cadet wants to test they must sign the testing log NLT than 1845. After testing cadets are asked if they want their score announced out loud or in private.

If all requirements are met, promotions are done on the first meeting of the month.

[floridacyclist]

So far, testing has been available on any desired night as long as the testing officer was there. There has been no strict time limit on how late a test can be requested, but it has been expected to be at the beginning of the meeting.

A form has been drawn up that the cadet has to have signed by his immediate supervisor (Element Leader or Flight Sgt) stating that (s)he is prepared for the test and accepting responsibility for remedial training should the cadet not pass. A second signature is required by the 1st Sgt, Dep Cadet Commander or Cadet Commander verifying that the cadet's supervisor has been briefed and is fully cognizant of their responsibility to guide and mentor their cadet.

Several proposals have been made regarding when to allow testing. The first, allowing testing only on two nights a month is pretty non-controversial. Ditto for the second, requiring that all tests have to be requested prior to 1840. The third is not quite so easy for everyone to agree on as it requires cadets to request a specific test a week in advance of the actual test date.

Thoughts on all the above?

[stillamarine]

we don't require advance notice on which test they are taking. But then again we have 15 cadets. It's really not an issue for us at this time. When they sign in on the testing roster they put the test they want. We don't actually do testing until the second block of instruction to give the testing officer time to pull the tests.

[jimmydeanno]

So far, testing has been available on any desired night as long as the testing officer was there. There has been no strict time limit on how late a test can be requested, but it has been expected to be at the beginning of the meeting.

A form has been drawn up that the cadet has to have signed by his immediate supervisor (Element Leader or Flight Sgt) stating that (s)he is prepared for the test and accepting responsibility for remedial training should the cadet not pass. A second signature is required by the 1st Sgt, Dep Cadet Commander or Cadet Commander verifying that the cadet's supervisor has been briefed and is fully cognizant of their responsibility to guide and mentor their cadet.

Several proposals have been made regarding when to allow testing. The first, allowing testing only on two nights a month is pretty non-controversial. Ditto for the second, requiring that all tests have to be requested prior to 1840. The third is not quite so easy for everyone to agree on as it requires cadets to request a specific test a week in advance of the actual test date.

Thoughts on all the above?

No offense, but the signature form for testing sounds like when my wife was separating from AD..."OK, make 15 copies of your DD 214, go around the whole base, get 45 different signatures and at each location drop off one copy - in duplicate of pages 1-3 and half of 4, but only if it's between the 7th and the 10th of the month, otherwise..."

It just seems a little superfluous.

It seems as though your squadron is attempting to make 'a big deal' out of testing by putting a lot of emphasis on it.  Personally, I think that testing twice per month decreases the importance of the test.  I don't see any problem with saying you need to sign up by a certain time either.

Your third option is what we do.  The week prior to the tests, they sign up.  If a cadet isn't going to make the meeting, they let their immediate supervisor know what test they want to take and they get written down.  Since we have about 30 cadets testing at the same time now, it makes it easier for the testing officer to get the tests ready and such right at the start of the meeting the following week.  It works pretty well.

Of course you always have the kid who is out of the country that couldn't contact his supervisor in time to sign up because he was too busy determining if he had to salute the Chilean flag if it was flying over the Canadian border on a family vacation...but exceptions happen.

Of course, all of this will be unnecessary shortly when NHQ rolls out the online testing for cadets.  It should free up a few hours a month.

[DC]

We hold testing once a month. At the beginning of the meeting after formation the cadets who are testing sign a log with their name, grade, and the test(s) they wish to take. The testing officer gets the tests out and the cadets sit for their tests while the rest of the squadron does something else (usually Flight Time). When a cadet finishes their test they return it to the Testing officer and waits for him to grade it. If a cadet needs a drill test a Cadet Staff Member will go and administer that.

We try to keep testing to one hour, but if a cadet needs more time (milestone, multiple tests, etc) we find somewhere where they can continue to work.

We do allow exceptions to test on non-testing nights in certain cases, usually if the cadet is going on vacation, needs to promote before a specific date, etc. I can only remember it happening twice in my time in the squadron.

[davedove]

We have testing available on any week that either the Testing Officer or the Alternate is there.  Cadets are required to sign the week before and specify what test they are taking.

[notaNCO forever]

The week before I tell he cadets there is testing and on Monday I call to see if they can attend the meeting and ask if they are testing. Next I give the list to the testing officer then they have the tests out and ready for testing. While they test the other cadets have drill time.

[jason.pennington]

When I ran my squadron in CAWG, I would allow the cadets to take their Leadership tests on the Leadership training night and their AE tests on the AE night.  It just helped out with planning the meetings.

[Pylon]

Testing is available one meeting night per calendar month, and is pre-scheduled on the quarterly schedule.  Every cadet is aware in advance of the date and time for testing.

On the evening of testing, during sign-in, the cadets can also add their name & desired test to the appropriate sheet.  One of our senior member ATCO's will retrieve the tests and prep them for the testing block.  Cadet tests are normally corrected the same evening.  The response portion is cut off, and the signed test head put into the "To be entered into SIMS & Records" box.   After entry (may not be the same week), they are filed into the individuals personnel record.

[RogueLeader]

All cadets in our squadron a required to notify the TCO, or Alt one week in advance, because we hold testing from 1700 to 1830, when the meeting starts.  The only exceptions are when schedules do not allow the cadet to be there at 1700.

[floridacyclist]

How does everyone think their existing system works? Strong points, weak points?

[DC]

I think our system works fairly well for us. It gives the cadets a specific date that is predictable so they are never suprised by testing and have plenty of time to prepare. It also allows us to keep all cadets on the same schedule when doing promotions, so we can promote several cadets once a month rather than one cadet here, one cadet there; it simplifies logistics and keeps the paperwork simpler.

[brasda91]

I'm surprised at how many squadrons have a testing sign-up sheet.

[jimmydeanno]

We do because the cadets test in a different area than is convenient to the file cabinet.  We have facilities in one room for administrative space where the file cabinet is and the cadets take the test in a completely separate building where our classroom are is.  So to avoid any 'lost' tests and help remove some of the temptation to violate ones integrity we have them sign up so the testing officer can get everything ready while they are doing something else. 

It has also served as a verification because the TO writes the scores on it, then puts it in a binder separate from their records.  So if a cadet says "well, I passed this test on this date and you didn't put it in my record" we can just whip out the sheet and say - uh, no - you didn't test that night.

[DC]

I'm surprised at how many squadrons have a testing sign-up sheet.

It allows the testing officer to get everything ready ahead of time, and gives us a record of what went on.

[JAFO78]

We have testing available on any week that either the Testing Officer or the Alternate is there.  Cadets are required to sign the week before and specify what test they are taking.

This is what we did at our squadron. If the cadet did not show up for testing, for what ever reason they had to write an apology letter to the Testing Officer, before they could sign up again.

We did have some Saturdays when testing could be done if needed.

[DC]

We have testing available on any week that either the Testing Officer or the Alternate is there.  Cadets are required to sign the week before and specify what test they are taking.

This is what we did at our squadron. If the cadet did not show up for testing, for what ever reason they had to write an apology letter to the Testing Officer, before they could sign up again.

We did have some Saturdays when testing could be done if needed.

I have thought about that but have found difficulty getting SMs to supervise, unless we did it along with something else, like O-Rides...

[afgeo4]

My squadron only meets twice a month, so we do all our testing by request. I find that having a specific testing night for a squadron that meets every week is perfectly doable and efficient.

[M.Glisson003]

When I was a cadet at a squadron in NC Wing we could test anytime. As long as the testing officer was present that night.

At McChord Composite squadron in WA Wing testing is scheduled for the first tuesday of every month - And if you miss that meeting then you can coordinate with the testing officer through your chain of command to schedule another date for testing.

I gues sit depends on the number of cadets you are testing and if you are a really busy squadron or not.

We try to accomplish one thing on the promotion contract every tuesday. That way cadets get promoted on time.

[JAFO78]

Our Saturday testing was done maybe once a month. If I was around (not working) or the Alt testing Officer, and sometimes the Squadron CO.

We had many cadets who were into sports and other actives, oh say homework and could not get in early on meeting night to test.

I find being flexible to help the cadets helps them a lot. 

[mikeylikey]

^ So, they come later in the weekly meeting to test.  No one says testing has to be done during the first hour.

[NIN]

I don't have our testing log sheet handy to attach, but basically the cadets use it to sign up for testing on it, then the testing officer uses it to pull the tests he needs (unfortunately, our testing box is a separately locked drawer in one of our file cabinets, and our file cabinets are not near the classroom), and once the test is administered, he records the scores on the log. 

Its a very easy way to cross-check who is taking a test multiple times, and it mitigates missing test headers (which can happen).

I'll post the PDF when I get a second. 

[SWASH]

What we do is if a cadet want's to test, they come about 30 minuets before the meeting (about when everyone comes) and tells are DCC the (s)he want's to take (blank) test.  They get the test, go into one of the offices, and is usually done before the start of the meeting.  then the test is graded and results are posted in the kitchen.

[brasda91]

My squadron only meets twice a month, so we do all our testing by request. I find that having a specific testing night for a squadron that meets every week is perfectly doable and efficient.

Do you find that meeting only twice a month is better or worse than meeting weekly?

[NIN]

Here's my share for tonight, as promised...

Enjoy.

[JAFO78]

Thanks NIN, I wish we had something like that sign up sheet. 
We just used a sheet of note book paper. 

[NIN]

Thanks NIN, I wish we had something like that sign up sheet. 
We just used a sheet of note book paper. 

If you want the word file, you're welcome to it.

Big thing is, this serves as a "cross check" for testing. Cadet is up for promotion and his 66 doesn't show his leadership test.  He says "Sir, I passed my leadership test!" and the testing officer somehow managed to lose the test header before posting it in the cadet's personnel jacket, we can go back thru the logs and "Oh, lookie here. He did pass it on the 22nd.."

[JAFO78]

I just printed off a copy to use as a master to make copy's from. I have done that with a lot of the forms and other ideas I have come across.

[cnitas]

Our Squadron requires cadets to sign up for their test the week prior.  The testing officer collects the sign-up sheet at the end of each meeting and arrives the following week with the appropriate tests for the cadets who signed up.

Testing and sign up is available every week.

[Pingree1492]

Our squadron tests twice a month, on every even-numbered week (if there's a fifth week of that month, testing depends upon the Testing Officer's availability).  We have testing time 30 minutes prior to the start of the meeting, if a cadet wants to test, they show up at that time and take whatever test they want to, they do not have to pre-arrange anything.  We've had this arrangement for about 8 months now, and it has worked well for us.

A question I have for the slightly larger squadrons out there [we are now just shy of 50 cadets (about 35-40 show up every meeting], and we are not doing a very good job about getting cadets mentoring who are either struggling with their tests, or simply need to correct their Aerospace Tests to 100%.  What systems have you used in the past *that worked* to make mentoring more effective?  You can assume we'll have anywhere from 5-10 aerospace tests taken in a night, and about 2-3 failures per month.  Thanks for the input!

[LtCol057]

First, Lt Col Ninness, I looked at your version of the testing signup sheet.  I like it, and will be implementing it.

Second, my squadron has a version of the signup sheet, but there hasn't been any followup as far as when cadets fail the tests.  That will be changed.  My squadron has been allowing the cadets to come in at any meeting and test, and the passing rate is to put it bluntly, "piss poor".  I'm still debating whether to have testing 2x a month, or just once a month. I'm really leaning towards the 1x/month. WIWAC, testing was once a month. It pretty much forced us to know the material if we ever wanted to be promoted.

[DC]

First, Lt Col Ninness, I looked at your version of the testing signup sheet.  I like it, and will be implementing it.

Second, my squadron has a version of the signup sheet, but there hasn't been any followup as far as when cadets fail the tests.  That will be changed.  My squadron has been allowing the cadets to come in at any meeting and test, and the passing rate is to put it bluntly, "piss poor".  I'm still debating whether to have testing 2x a month, or just once a month. I'm really leaning towards the 1x/month. WIWAC, testing was once a month. It pretty much forced us to know the material if we ever wanted to be promoted.

There is a serious problem if your cadets routinely cannot pass their achievement testing. Either they are not motivated at all, or there is a larger issue. CAP tests are not so difficult that most cadets should not be able to pass them.

[LtCol057]

I agree  whole heartedly.  I just recently became the Squadron Commander, and looking thru some records, found that some of our cadets have been promoted without completing everything for each achievement. Some have missed the morale leadership (character development) classes, several had not taken a PFT in several months.  The former commander had zero understanding of the cadet program. The Deputy Commander for Cadets sits in his office. When he does come out to a cadet meeting, he talks incessantly about way back when. I've told him the cadet program has changed quite a bit.  I'm in the process of putting together an OI for the cadet program. I've already had a minor "incident" with a cadet that the DC has been promoting every month. He's a AFJROTC cadet.  I refused to promote him the other night. I told him I will not promote him until I've verified that he has completed ALL requirements. I told all the cadets that temporarily all promotions are on freeze. I'm not trying to be a dictator, just kinda anal about the regs.  And as a paramedic, I learned, if it ain't written down, it won't done.

[DC]

I agree whole heartedly.  I just recently became the Squadron Commander, and looking thru some records, found that some of our cadets have been promoted without completing everything for each achievement. Some have missed the morale leadership (character development) classes, several had not taken a PFT in several months.  The former commander had zero understanding of the cadet program. The Deputy Commander for Cadets sits in his office. When he does come out to a cadet meeting, he talks incessantly about way back when. I've told him the cadet program has changed quite a bit.  I'm in the process of putting together an OI for the cadet program. I've already had a minor "incident" with a cadet that the DC has been promoting every month. He's a AFJROTC cadet.  I refused to promote him the other night. I told him I will not promote him until I've verified that he has completed ALL requirements. I told all the cadets that temporarily all promotions are on freeze. I'm not trying to be a dictator, just kinda anal about the regs.  And as a paramedic, I learned, if it ain't written down, it won't done.

Good for you. I have seen my squadron go through a similar phase, though admittedly not as bad as yours. There will be resistance, and your cadets will hate you for a while, but it will pass. And by the sound of it, you need to tell your DCC to get with your program, or take a hike. The best thing you can do for yourself is find a motivated cadet staff that wants to change things for the better, and will get things done. As soon as the cadets discover that you aren't going to let them do whatever they want, and that they can't push you around, they will start to improve. Also be prepared, some, even a lot, may leave. My squadron experienced about a 70%  turn over in cadets over the course of a year, but ultimately we ended up with motivated and hardworking cadets. Secretly, all cadets want to be held to a higher standard, they may not show it, but eventually they will be appreceative. Also, you may have to take the reins for a little while, but as soon and maybe before, you are comfortable, turn some of the power over to the DCC, keep an eye on him, make sure he is doing his job, then make sure that he is giving power to the Cadet Staff. Within a few months, maybe a year, the Cadet Staff should be running the program almost completely, with the DCC and yourself in a more administrative and mentoring role.

Good luck, and don't give the cadets an inch. But make changes over time, too much at once will overwhelm them.

[rebowman]

What do you do when your cadets are not mature enough nor professional enough to run things on their own? I am the DCC of my unit and have been completely running things for almost 2 years now.  The cadets cannot on their own. 

And, when I teach the cadets the things that they need to know (AE, moral leadership, etc....) most of them complain.  How can I get them to realize that some things are required? And, what can be added for "fun" to keep them interested?

Most of my cadets want to be there but they are not motivated and hard-working.  Goofing off seems to be on the top of their priority list.

[cnitas]

What do you do when your cadets are not mature enough nor professional enough to run things on their own? I am the DCC of my unit and have been completely running things for almost 2 years now.  The cadets cannot on their own. 

Are you sure they are not mature enough?  How old are your cadets?  Professionalism is groomed/learned.  YOU must hold them to the standard.  If you have 1 or 2 cadets who are instigators, pull them aside and explain it is your way, or the highway.  Discussions with parents can also be effective.

And, when I teach the cadets the things that they need to know (AE, moral leadership, etc....) most of them complain.  How can I get them to realize that some things are required? And, what can be added for "fun" to keep them interested?

Most of my cadets want to be there but they are not motivated and hard-working.  Goofing off seems to be on the top of their priority list.

Probably because you are teaching the classes.  Let the cadets teach the classes.  At first they will not be as 'good' as your classes, but you need to get them used to the idea of being in front of others and in charge.  Responsibility usually gives people a different angle on 'goofing off'.

[DC]

A previous DCC at my squadron had the same opinion. Eventually he was replaced and the ball started rolling again.

Basically, your cadets will never meet your standards if you don't let them. Give them a little bit of room, let them teach classes. Make criteria for what they have to do (ex, have a lesson plan to you two weeks in advance, subject to your approval), but let them do it. They will fall short, but eventually they will get it. Then let them do some planning. Let them plan a bivouac or something. Help them out, but don't do it for them. Then work from there.

It will be a rough transition for you. You will go from doing everything, to giving up that power to your cadet staff, and having to trust them to do it right.

You also need to allow the cadets' Chain of Command to work, if you want to talk to Element Leader  Snuffly, you need to go to Flight Commander Soandso, and he needs to go to Flight Sergeant Bagodonuts, who should talk to the element leader.

Also make sure you have a good mix of fun and 'boring' stuff, On PT night, let them play Soccer or something every once and a while, have a 'fun' bivouac, they might have some specific job to do, but in their off time let them have fun and bond.

Your cadets will not grow and progress like they are supposed to if you do everything for them, you need to delegate tasks to them, and make sure they know that if they don't do it, it won't get done. If you need to make consquences, withhold an activity or something, though I doubt it will come to that.

But, overall, you need to give them a chance. I'll bet that if given a little time and patience they will impress you.

[rebowman]

My cadets range from 12 to 18.

The18 yr old cadet is the best.

I have tried having them teach the classes but they never want to.  They always complain but when I ask them for their ideas they never give me anything to go with.

I will try again and see what happens.

[DC]

Force them to. They have gotten used to not having to do anything, and you need to break them of the habit.

Are there any other squadrons nearby with stong cadet programs? Maybe if feasible you and a few senior cadets could go to a meeting or two and talk to their DCC and Cadet Staff, or, maybe have a few experienced cadets from there come to your meetings and give your cadets a kick in the [fourth point of contact].

Do any of your cadets attend Encampment, or NCSAs? How active are they in Group and Wing activities?

[jeders]

I have tried having them teach the classes but they never want to.  They always complain but when I ask them for their ideas they never give me anything to go with.

Simple, don't ask them. Tell them.

If they don't teach the class, then no milk and cookies. 

[notaNCO forever]

 I just tell them when they will be teaching a class and when I want the outline by.

[DC]

I just tell them when they will be teaching a class and when I want the outline by.

I'm assuming you are in a well established SQ though. Some squadrons have a very... lethargic, for lack of a better word, cadet staff. They get lazy when everything is done for them, and ostensibly don't want that to change, but all of the energetic and very successful squadrons had very active cadets, who took a very proactive role in squadron management.