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Author Topic: Outside look at CAP  (Read 1652 times)
UWONGO2
Member

Posts: 89

« on: June 07, 2018, 04:08:48 AM »

It's no secret that CAP isn't perfect. Name an organization, for or not for profit that is. We have issues and we discuss them here at great length. Although I do get concerned sometimes about the amount of negativity here, it also shows how passionate people are about this organization and that is a good thing.

I did however recently come across this account of an USAF officer writing about her experience hanging out with some CAP folks for a weekend:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/innovation-cap-jennifer-aupke/

From her outside perspective, she was impressed with us as volunteers and our mission successes. Let's not lose sight of the good while we attempt to reduce the bad. Otherwise, why are we all still members?
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,145

« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 10:09:32 AM »

Otherwise, why are we all still members?

I believe in my mission and the good it brings in both the short term and long term.

My frustrations tend to rest with people who see this as a part-time hobby and don't contribute outside of general chit chat and speech giving. I can work with people I don't like. I can't work with people who don't perform their functional role.

But at the end of the day, I love what I do.
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chuckmilam
Member

Posts: 96
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 10:28:43 AM »

My frustrations tend to rest with people who see this as a part-time hobby....
A volunteer fraternal organization I belong to says that only 11% of members do the actual work, the rest are there for the resume bullet and the social/business networking.  Anecdotally, CAP seems to have more active participants than that, at least from what I've seen in my years as a member.   
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,560

« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 10:58:19 AM »

+1 on the above, and also...

Kind words aside, it's unfortunate that a USAF O-5 had such little knowledge of CAP before.
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I_Am_Twigs
Member

Posts: 75
Unit: RMR-ID-069

« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 03:13:40 PM »

Great article, but I do gotta say my favorite part has got to be...

Quote
I could only think about how much they are- and how much they need helicopters!!

I mean who wouldn't agree with that?!  ;D
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Mitchell #68874
1st Encampment 2016 
2nd Encampment 2017
C/2nd Lt, CAP
 
Dwight Dutton
Member

Posts: 99
Unit: PCR-CA-080

« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 07:08:17 PM »

A volunteer fraternal organization I belong to says that only 11% of members do the actual work, the rest are there for the resume bullet and the social/business networking.  Anecdotally, CAP seems to have more active participants than that, at least from what I've seen in my years as a member.

11% sounds like (as Billy Bob Thornton would say in Fargo) A pretty specific number...   I believe it though.  Sounds like someone actually crunched numbers instead of just making a guess.
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Dwight J. Dutton, CPT AUS (RET)
CAPT CAP, Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,086

« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 08:53:11 PM »

+1 on the above, and also...

Kind words aside, it's unfortunate that a USAF O-5 had such little knowledge of CAP before.

Well, when when there is little to no mention of CAP in Air Force Professional Military Education.
What do you expect?
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,139

« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 08:58:40 PM »



Well, when when there is little to no mention of CAP in Air Force Professional Military Education.
What do you expect?


We do the work they don't want to do. Why look over our way? They are looking forward to what they like to do.

Its not like they are wishing they could search hangars with us for errant ELTs.   ;D
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,560

« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 11:20:12 PM »

+1 on the above, and also...

Kind words aside, it's unfortunate that a USAF O-5 had such little knowledge of CAP before.

Well, when when there is little to no mention of CAP in Air Force Professional Military Education.
What do you expect?

Honestly?  I would like field grade officers to know more about their service then
the bare minimum.  The joke about the "best kept secret" is salient on the
civilian side, but CAP is hardly a secret within the USAF itself.

There are more then a few reports on the official site, and CAP is regularly mentioned
on local new sites, especially after a disaster, which sadly has been more common the
last 5-10 years.

It's one thing for a slick-sleeve 18 year old right out of Lackland to be clueless, but
how does someone go 16-20 years+ in the USAF without ever having their interest peaked
in whatever that "auxiliary" thingie is?

I know it's apparently common, I just don't understand how.

And the fact that it still is, shows just how "Total" the "Force" actually is.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,139

« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2018, 05:02:34 PM »

+1 on the above, and also...

Kind words aside, it's unfortunate that a USAF O-5 had such little knowledge of CAP before.

Well, when when there is little to no mention of CAP in Air Force Professional Military Education.
What do you expect?

Honestly?  I would like field grade officers to know more about their service then
the bare minimum.  The joke about the "best kept secret" is salient on the
civilian side, but CAP is hardly a secret within the USAF itself.

There are more then a few reports on the official site, and CAP is regularly mentioned
on local new sites, especially after a disaster, which sadly has been more common the
last 5-10 years.

It's one thing for a slick-sleeve 18 year old right out of Lackland to be clueless, but
how does someone go 16-20 years+ in the USAF without ever having their interest peaked
in whatever that "auxiliary" thingie is?

I know it's apparently common, I just don't understand how.

And the fact that it still is, shows just how "Total" the "Force" actually is.

Did you see my answer above?  CAP does the things they don't care about doing themselves. Its very rare that we actually work "together", as in MQ-9 chase missions. And even those pilots get frustrated at how slow our C-182s are. They are ready to throttle up. The FAA "saddled them" with us slow pokes. LOL

Why should rank and file USAF members be interested in CAP members chasing needles looking for an ELT in some unattended airport hangar?  They are not interested in what we do.

USAF members are quite busy training for deployment. Our paths rarely ever cross, and our missions are so different.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 07:18:08 PM by etodd » Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 771
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2018, 07:20:07 PM »

+1 on the above, and also...

Kind words aside, it's unfortunate that a USAF O-5 had such little knowledge of CAP before.

Well, when when there is little to no mention of CAP in Air Force Professional Military Education.
What do you expect?

Honestly?  I would like field grade officers to know more about their service then
the bare minimum.  The joke about the "best kept secret" is salient on the
civilian side, but CAP is hardly a secret within the USAF itself.

There are more then a few reports on the official site, and CAP is regularly mentioned
on local new sites, especially after a disaster, which sadly has been more common the
last 5-10 years.

It's one thing for a slick-sleeve 18 year old right out of Lackland to be clueless, but
how does someone go 16-20 years+ in the USAF without ever having their interest peaked
in whatever that "auxiliary" thingie is?

I know it's apparently common, I just don't understand how.

And the fact that it still is, shows just how "Total" the "Force" actually is.

Did you see my answer above?  CAP does the things they don't care about doing themselves. Its very rare that we actually work "together", as in MQ-9 chase missions. And even those pilots get frustrated at how slow our C-182s are. They are ready to throttle up. The FAA "saddled them" with us slow pokes. LOL

Why should rank and file USAF members be interested in CAP members chasing needles looking for an ELT in some unattended airport hangar?  They are not interested in what we do.

USAF members are quite busy training for deployment. Our paths rarely ever pass, and our missions are so different.

Absent an official briefing statement being delivered by USAF to USAF members about their Auxiliary, there will be an information void. That void will then be subject to filling by every single USAF member when they personally encounter CAP.

Some USAF people may never encounter CAP, leaving that void intact. Others might get the chance to work with some CAP stalwarts and fill that void with happy thoughts. But some may only run into one CAP doofus in their career and the void will have that doofus tossed into it for future recollection.

The worst thing is that some USAF people may encounter no CAP people, great CAP people, or the doofus. But - they may hear a multitude of CAP stories from fellow USAF members, with some stories going back 30 years and many of them based on little or no contact with CAP, thus being short on fact, long on story. And there is enough of that noise to fill the void many times over, with irrevocable harm done to CAP.

So - toss in a 50 minute block somewhere for “CAP - Your USAF Auxiliary Total Force Partner” or some such.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 377
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2018, 08:17:27 PM »

Quote
They like to say they are “the best-kept secret” of the USAF, but I would argue they should not be a secret at all but a resource we utilize for all sorts of innovations.


My favorite line!
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,086

« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2018, 09:13:57 PM »

+1 on the above, and also...

Kind words aside, it's unfortunate that a USAF O-5 had such little knowledge of CAP before.

Well, when when there is little to no mention of CAP in Air Force Professional Military Education.
What do you expect?

Honestly?  I would like field grade officers to know more about their service then
the bare minimum.  The joke about the "best kept secret" is salient on the
civilian side, but CAP is hardly a secret within the USAF itself.

There are more then a few reports on the official site, and CAP is regularly mentioned
on local new sites, especially after a disaster, which sadly has been more common the
last 5-10 years.

It's one thing for a slick-sleeve 18 year old right out of Lackland to be clueless, but
how does someone go 16-20 years+ in the USAF without ever having their interest peaked
in whatever that "auxiliary" thingie is?

I know it's apparently common, I just don't understand how.

And the fact that it still is, shows just how "Total" the "Force" actually is.

Did you see my answer above?  CAP does the things they don't care about doing themselves. Its very rare that we actually work "together", as in MQ-9 chase missions. And even those pilots get frustrated at how slow our C-182s are. They are ready to throttle up. The FAA "saddled them" with us slow pokes. LOL

Why should rank and file USAF members be interested in CAP members chasing needles looking for an ELT in some unattended airport hangar?  They are not interested in what we do.

USAF members are quite busy training for deployment. Our paths rarely ever cross, and our missions are so different.

They want to do 250 KIAS with their MQ-9's. Our 182's even with just a skinny pilot aboard can't do that.
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MacGruff
Seasoned Member

Posts: 334

« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2018, 04:40:48 PM »

I do not know how many of you are also AFA members, but that esteemed group devotes an annual issue of their magazine to documenting the Air Force and all it's components and pieces and parts. It's always a fun read!

However, this year, they managed to discuss the Total Force and completely ignored CAP. The Total Force in their issue only had three components. Later on, in the detail part, they mentioned CAP...

I contacted the editors about the omission and they pointed to the latter reference but completely ignored and did not answer my question(s) about the Total Force missing its fourth component.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,139

« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2018, 05:43:55 PM »

I do not know how many of you are also AFA members, but that esteemed group devotes an annual issue of their magazine to documenting the Air Force and all it's components and pieces and parts. It's always a fun read!

However, this year, they managed to discuss the Total Force and completely ignored CAP. The Total Force in their issue only had three components. Later on, in the detail part, they mentioned CAP...

I contacted the editors about the omission and they pointed to the latter reference but completely ignored and did not answer my question(s) about the Total Force missing its fourth component.

Yep.  They are not interested in what we do. We are not combat oriented.  We get funding, some guidance and oversight, airplanes and uniforms and more. But that stuff all comes from on high.  Rank and file USAF members do not have a need, at all, to know we even exist. We are not part of their combat training and readiness. We do the jobs (like AP and ELT searches) that they don't give a flying flip about.

It amazes me the number of CAP members who don't get it, and really want to insist that all USAF rank and file be taught all about us. No need.  We do our own thing. Be proud of what we do APART from the AF.  I am. I don't care at all if most AF folks at the nearby base know about us at all. As long as the folks in D.C keep funding us, I'm happy.  :)
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,086

« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2018, 08:26:03 PM »

I do not know how many of you are also AFA members, but that esteemed group devotes an annual issue of their magazine to documenting the Air Force and all it's components and pieces and parts. It's always a fun read!

However, this year, they managed to discuss the Total Force and completely ignored CAP. The Total Force in their issue only had three components. Later on, in the detail part, they mentioned CAP...

I contacted the editors about the omission and they pointed to the latter reference but completely ignored and did not answer my question(s) about the Total Force missing its fourth component.

Yep.  They are not interested in what we do. We are not combat oriented.  We get funding, some guidance and oversight, airplanes and uniforms and more. But that stuff all comes from on high.  Rank and file USAF members do not have a need, at all, to know we even exist. We are not part of their combat training and readiness. We do the jobs (like AP and ELT searches) that they don't give a flying flip about.

It amazes me the number of CAP members who don't get it, and really want to insist that all USAF rank and file be taught all about us. No need.  We do our own thing. Be proud of what we do APART from the AF.  I am. I don't care at all if most AF folks at the nearby base know about us at all. As long as the folks in D.C keep funding us, I'm happy.  :)

The Air Force DOES give a "Flying Flip" about those missions. It's just that we can do the job with the aircraft the Air Force has brought for us at a much smaller cost then they can with the aircraft they currently have.
And it's been brought up more then a few times that these missions could be easily done with the drone aircraft that are currently being assigned to many Air National Guard units. If that happens the justification for most of our fleet of Cessnas would go away.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,139

« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2018, 08:43:04 PM »


The Air Force DOES give a "Flying Flip" about those missions.

If you read my post above you'll see I was referring to the average USAF rank and file member. Most of them don't know about us or care. I did mentioned that all the good things we get are "from on high". The powers that be at the top DO CARE. You betcha.

I just get tickled at a few "military wannabes" we have in CAP that get all bent out of shape when regular rank and file AF folks don't know about us. Its amusing to watch the steam come out of their ears.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,086

« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2018, 10:31:30 PM »


The Air Force DOES give a "Flying Flip" about those missions.

If you read my post above you'll see I was referring to the average USAF rank and file member. Most of them don't know about us or care. I did mentioned that all the good things we get are "from on high". The powers that be at the top DO CARE. You betcha.

I just get tickled at a few "military wannabes" we have in CAP that get all bent out of shape when regular rank and file AF folks don't know about us. Its amusing to watch the steam come out of their ears.

I hope you're not calling me a "military wannabe".... I have a Retired Military ID Card that says you're wrong.
Plus personal attacks are a big no no here.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,139

« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2018, 11:17:20 PM »


The Air Force DOES give a "Flying Flip" about those missions.

If you read my post above you'll see I was referring to the average USAF rank and file member. Most of them don't know about us or care. I did mentioned that all the good things we get are "from on high". The powers that be at the top DO CARE. You betcha.

I just get tickled at a few "military wannabes" we have in CAP that get all bent out of shape when regular rank and file AF folks don't know about us. Its amusing to watch the steam come out of their ears.

I hope you're not calling me a "military wannabe".... I have a Retired Military ID Card that says you're wrong.
Plus personal attacks are a big no no here.

No, no, no. Not you at all.  I didn't point to you at all, in any shape form or fashion. My whole point was talking about AF rank and file and what they think, or don't think of CAP.  You're missing my point. Guess I didn't explain it well.  So lets just move on.   :)
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,145

« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2018, 01:15:50 PM »

At the end of the day, the CAP mission affects very few USAF Airmen. There is a small interface and crucial linkage points, but we're not mixed in with the general day-to-day Air Force mission, neither in operational or service support.

It's not like Airmen at boot camp are learning about FEMA or the Navy is teaches about the Merchant Marines. These are things that get taught to the applicable people when they have a role that requires that knowledge. The guy loading GBU-30s onto B-1Bs doesn't need to know what role CAP has in the Total Force.
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