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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: All GTM3 Qual's done - but still "TRAINING"
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« on: March 02, 2018, 01:17:29 AM »

Looking through SQTR worksheets for my squadron, found a cadet that has all tasks "ACTIVE" but his status is still "TRAINING."  Anyone know why this would  be the case?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,555

« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2018, 01:20:31 AM »

The completed SQTR has to be submitted for approval up to the wing level.
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 342
Unit: GA

« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 01:21:46 AM »

Probably wasn't approved by the squadron ES officer or something... if you PM me his CAP ID I can maybe check it out and see
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 01:32:35 AM »

All of the Squadron Commander sign-offs are "ACTIVE" and the "SUBMIT" button is greyed out....???
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CAP9907
Member

Posts: 54
Unit: NER-000

« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 02:54:12 AM »

This is likely something your Squadron/Group/Wing ES Officer could help with... That is why they are there after all...
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16 yrs of service
DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 110

« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2018, 07:44:07 AM »

Just for yours and everyone's benefit, I'll run you through how my process works through what I see as a Group ESO.

You complete your tasks, put them in or the evaluator puts them in, and they go green in your online SQTR.
When all are complete, the qualificaiton submits to Unit Commander for approval, he/she looks over it and approves.

Then it goes to Group (where I am) I do the following:
-I look at the applicant's CAPID and what qualification you're submitting for.
-Head over to Ops-Quals and look at his/her SQTR.
-I verify that the required items that need sortie numbers have them included (mission participation, excluding items that are based on operational periods)
-If it's a qual that requires approval with different operational periods, I verify those show up properly
-I go over to WIMRS, and verify that the applicant was signed into the mission.
-I then verify that they were assigned to the sortie that it says they are signed on to.
-I verify that the evaluator that evaluated the tasks was also signed into the sortie that the tasks were evaluated on.
-If it's a ground sortie, I'll look at the F109 in WIMRS and see if the tasks taught and tasks showing in the 109 match. (Not everyone inputs the tasks in the 109 but it's a great way to have a paper trail if there's an issue)

If there's an issue, I will either deny the qual at Group and likely send you an email explaining it and asking for clarification, ask you to fix it for re-submission, or I'll point you where you need to go to complete it. I really don't want to kill your qual, but my goal is to make sure we're doing things as accurately as possible and avoiding the situation where someone may have  been approved for tasks they weren't 100% on.

If everything's good, I submit to Wing. Now, sometimes it does take some time to get stuff like this approved. Small groups/wings can knock them out pretty fast. I have 20 squadrons (used to be 22) in my group and by person my group is larger than 53% of the wings in the nation (Whoops I may have outed myself there) so it takes some time. You can hover over the part where it says "Training" in the upper right portion of the SQTR and if it's been submitted it'll show the last action/approval level it's at. That will help you and your commander to narrow down why it's not been approved yet.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 08:55:24 AM by DocJekyll » Logged
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.

Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,055
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2018, 11:44:37 AM »

Doc, may I offer a couple of respectful clarifications, from my Wing level perspective?


You complete your tasks, put them in or the evaluator puts them in, and they go green in your online SQTR.
When all are complete, the qualificaiton submits to Unit Commander for approval, he/she looks over it and approves.

Following evaluation on a task by a Skills Evaluator Trainer (SET) approved individual (only!), the two use cases to document approval are: 1. SET evaluator enters the task in the SQTR for the trainee and clicks "submit", or 2. the trainee enters the tasks they believe the SET evaluator approved, with the SET evaluators CAPID, and clicks "submit". In the first case, the task turns green if the SET guy is current/approved. In the latter, the task will show yellow "pending" until the SET guy goes in and reviews/approves it.

When all the tasks are showing completed, the SQTR does not auto-submit, as one could misread your next comment. Someone (usually either the trainee or trainer or unit DOS) must click "submit" to send it for review/approval at Group/Wing. Common mistakes here are: trainee fails to notice uncompleted tasks (e.g. a FEMA course incomplete or other evidence not uploaded/attached, a SET evaluator who has expired, or suspiciously improbable task completions such as all GTM3 initial qual tasks all entered on the same date... which happens sometimes at the end of formal schools but ideally should be noted for reviewers via annotations such as "NESA").


Then it goes to Group (where I am) I do the following:
<snip>
-I go over to WIMRS, and verify that the applicant was signed into the mission.
-I then verify that they were assigned to the sortie that it says they are signed on to.
-I verify that the evaluator that evaluated the tasks was also signed into the sortie that the tasks were evaluated on.
-If it's a ground sortie, I'll look at the F109 in WIMRS and see if the tasks taught and tasks showing in the 109 match. (Not everyone inputs the tasks in the 109 but it's a great way to have a paper trail if there's an issue)

If there's an issue, I will either deny the qual at Group and likely send you an email explaining it and asking for clarification, ask you to fix it for re-submission, or I'll point you where you need to go to complete it. I really don't want to kill your qual, but my goal is to make sure we're doing things as accurately as possible and avoiding the situation where someone may have  been approved for tasks they weren't 100% on.

From my perspective, I really want to thank you for your diligence to the process here. I have concurred with and backed up our DO's judgement calls in the recent past to deny initial quals and to decline to designate SET evaluators based on lack of adequate evidence of training/experience. It can be controversial but there are sound reasons for being tight with this. Recently while reviewing a small mishap report, I discovered a cadet basic (no GES, as a C/B) that had not only attended an AFAM but had been logged as a GTM3 trainee on a sortie in WMIRS due to lack of due diligence to the process. I took immediate action and we are following up to systematically evaluate, retrain, requalify, and fix holes like this in our process as part of a QA approach. The long term solution to lower our risk and improve our effectiveness is to train to standards, use and enforce the process, and evaluate to standards.  So, thanks for doing it right.


(Whoops I may have outed myself there)

Insert "Not that there's anything wrong with that" meme here.
Lighthearted Question: what if the WMIRS and Ops Quals applications really suck on purpose, just to unite all of CAP against a common enemy?    ;D


Thanks teammates for all you're doing
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