Past Leadership

[SAR-EMT1]

As I read some threads here it really hit me that while some folks speak ill of General Pineda or the mythical black vans or of problems associated with each; I know almost nothing of the actual policies of the man or of past NHQ staffers and National Commanders.

What they have done that was good for us, what was bad for us, any programs that have been fostered or shot down during their tenure. etc...

Second, how much has CAP as an organization really changed compared to pre 9/11 or prior to the 2000 shake up - again, something I know zilch about.

Would it be possible for those who are either "in the know" or those who have just been around awhile to submit information on this for me?

Thanks. - Im just looking to 'fill in the blanks' in areas where I dont know about CAP.

[LtCol White]

By promoting himself, Gen Harwell earned us the maroon and now gray epaulets

[flyguy06]

As I read some threads here it really hit me that while some folks speak ill of General Pineda or the mythical black vans or of problems associated with each; I know almost nothing of the actual policies of the man or of past NHQ staffers and National Commanders.

What they have done that was good for us, what was bad for us, any programs that have been fostered or shot down during their tenure. etc...

Second, how much has CAP as an organization really changed compared to pre 9/11 or prior to the 2000 shake up - again, something I know zilch about.

Would it be possible for those who are either "in the know" or those who have just been around awhile to submit information on this for me?

Thanks. - Im just looking to 'fill in the blanks' in areas where I dont know about CAP.

I haave been a contiuous active member of CAP since 1984 and I can tell you that this organization has changed a lot.

CAP used to be very military focused and oriented which is what attracted me to the organization. They had a very good working relationship with the U.S. Air Force. the emphasis was on military aviation. Nowadays, the emphasis is on SAR and Law Enforcement operations. Thats what I have seen that has changed a lot.

[mikeylikey]

Granted the Corporation has allways been part of CAP.......but lately it seems that it has "taken over".

The biggest change in leadership was when the National Commander position changed from being an Air Force Officer to an "elected" CAP Officer.  I have seen the dates of the changes posted on here before, not sure where.

I would not neccessarily look towards the past for past leadership changes, but examine what we have now.  There is almost NO AF involvement with the day to day opperation of CAP NHQ.  That needs to be fixed.  The hugest thing was the loss of the CAP-USAF Commander as a voting member on the Board.  THAT WAS VERY BAD!

Looking at the past, I would like to know who it was that got CAP members barred from purchasing anything they wanted at AAFES.  Up until the 70's from what I read, members could purchase whatever they wanted.

[RiverAux]

the emphasis was on military aviation.

Huh?  What exactly do you mean by that? 

[FARRIER]

"...the emphasis was on military aviation." From an AE standpoint that was bad. It didn't truly prep cadets for the true world of aviation that was out there. The emphasis was too narrow. Had a Wing Dir of AE (and AF Academy grad) that tried to change that, she had the forsight, but was constantly given grief for it.

"Nowadays, the emphasis is on SAR and Law Enforcement operations." This is just my opinion, but isn't there more people with LE backgrounds in leadership positions now?

[flyguy06]

the emphasis was on military aviation.

Huh?  What exactly do you mean by that? 

Its hard to spell out. I guess what I mea nis that cadet activitioes like Air Education Command Familirazation course and Oshkosh and powered academies were the big activities to go on. Nowadays the big activities are Hawk mountain and anything having to do with ES.

I remember when wing cadet of the year were rewarded with orientation rides............in an F-15 given by the local National Guard unit. You dont see those types of relationships with the AF anymore. The Air Force had a much more integral part in CAP. How many of you remember the "Air Force Now" flims we used to get at CAP activities? I miss those.

CAP was just really fun for me back then. I am more into the military than I am into ES, so the CAP of todayisnt as much fun as it was back then (for me anyway) And as was mentioned above, the CAP-USAF was more involved. I dunno what happened to that relationship.

[flyguy06]

I dont remember when an Air Force guy was the National Commander. That was wayyy before my time. I thought we were talking about the recent past.

[ColonelJack]

A check with Wikipedia on the topic showed this:

"Original CAP title was Chairman of the CAP Board; Colonel George A. Stone, Ohio Wing Commander, became the first Chairman, but later died in an aircraft accident.

"Upon adoption of the CAP Constitution and Bylaws on 26 May 1948, the CAP Board was redesignated as the National Executive Board (NEB), but the designation was later changed to the National Executive Committee (NEC) on 26 April 1960.

"USAF approved the grade of Brigadier General, CAP, via order PANHQ 9, 15 March 1968.

"On 1 September 1975, the original CAP title of Chairman of the National Board was redesignated as National Commander, and the US Air Force-appointed National Commander became the Executive Director. On 8 March 1995 during a reorganization of CAP National Headquarters, the title of Executive Director was changed to Senior Air Force Advisor."

So the "AF guy as National Commander" existed until 1968.  And the title National Commander became used for a CAP officer in 1975.

Did that make sense?

Jack

[ELTHunter]

I remember when wing cadet of the year were rewarded with orientation rides............in an F-15 given by the local National Guard unit. You dont see those types of relationships with the AF anymore. The Air Force had a much more integral part in CAP. How many of you remember the "Air Force Now" flims we used to get at CAP activities? I miss those.

CAP was just really fun for me back then. I am more into the military than I am into ES, so the CAP of todayisnt as much fun as it was back then (for me anyway) And as was mentioned above, the CAP-USAF was more involved. I dunno what happened to that relationship.

We have a KC-135 Wing stationed here.  Per the CAP-USAF State Director, we can only have two O-flights per year.  I think his attitude is, if it doesn't benefit the Air Force, why should he ask them for something.  You talk to guy's at the Guard base and they would be glad to fly us more often.  They fly other groups a lot more than CAP.  Go figure.

[mikeylikey]

We have a KC-135 Wing stationed here.  Per the CAP-USAF State Director, we can only have two O-flights per year.  I think his attitude is, if it doesn't benefit the Air Force, why should he ask them for something.  You talk to guy's at the Guard base and they would be glad to fly us more often.  They fly other groups a lot more than CAP.  Go figure.

Your SD sucks!  Have your Wing King get in contact with the Region AF LO Office.  Stuff like that is a shame.  I bet he is there only for the money and GOV Perks.  He is ridding out the end of his career in style if you get my drift.

[flyguy06]

Ok, A KC-135 ride and a F-15 ride. two totally different animals

[PHall]

Looking at the past, I would like to know who it was that got CAP members barred from purchasing anything they wanted at AAFES.  Up until the 70's from what I read, members could purchase whatever they wanted.

Nope, never was like that. I've been a member since December 1969 and we have never been allowed to get whatever we wanted from AAFES.

[mikeylikey]

Looking at the past, I would like to know who it was that got CAP members barred from purchasing anything they wanted at AAFES.  Up until the 70's from what I read, members could purchase whatever they wanted.

Nope, never was like that. I've been a member since December 1969 and we have never been allowed to get whatever we wanted from AAFES.

When I get to wing I will scan the Army-Air Force reg and post.  I said up until the 70's.  I am sorry, I should have said "IT STOPED BEFORE the 1970's, NOT SURE OF THE EXACT DATE".  Is that better?

[lordmonar]

Ok, A KC-135 ride and a F-15 ride. two totally different animals

That is true....but on the same note....you don't see a lot of O-rides for AD folks anymore either.

The relationship is still there....you just have to work it.

[PHall]

Looking at the past, I would like to know who it was that got CAP members barred from purchasing anything they wanted at AAFES.  Up until the 70's from what I read, members could purchase whatever they wanted.

Nope, never was like that. I've been a member since December 1969 and we have never been allowed to get whatever we wanted from AAFES.

When I get to wing I will scan the Army-Air Force reg and post.  I said up until the 70's.  I am sorry, I should have said "IT STOPED BEFORE the 1970's, NOT SURE OF THE EXACT DATE".  Is that better?

Access to base exchanges is a privilege that the military has guarded very closely for a long, long time.

Back then, military clothing sales stores were not located inside the exchange and were not run by AAFES.
When we came on base for a uniform run we would go to the clothing sales store to get our uniform items. We didn't even think about going to the exchange because there was nothing there that we were authorized to buy other then something from the snack bar, and that was about it.

[ELTHunter]

Ok, A KC-135 ride and a F-15 ride. two totally different animals

True, an F 16 would be a lot better than a 135, but a fifteen year old cadet will be happy to get on any military plane.  My point was that our relationship with the rest of the Air Force family isn't helping CAP much.  You would think that they would want to take more advantage of the relationship to encourage cadets to transition to the active, guard or reserves.

On the senior, er Officer, side, you would think they would want to use the relationship to strengthen public opinion for funding support and such.

[BillB]

During the 1950's and early 1960's CAP was authorized to buy almost anything at a BX except taxable items with few restrictions.. And even at that, if in Government quarters for a meeting, encampment etc, two cartons of cigarettes could be purchsed by being in uniform, showing the BOQ room key and a set of orders. Another restriction was jewelry and electronics over $50. With the approval of the Base Commander, a temporary pass for the Commissary could be issued for the purchase of coffee and disposable items. This changed in the late 1960's or early 70's and more restrictions were placed on the use of the BX and the Commissary was off limits to CAP (unless you had a cadet or senior with a dependents card)

[ELTHunter]

Use of the BX is one thing that has always chaffed me a little bit.  I know AAFES merchandise is subsidized by the DOD, but you would think they could allow CAP folks to purchase items as a little side benefit for being an active CAP member.  After all, doesn't CAP stand for "come and pay".  It would seem a small token of appreciation for what we do.

[JC004]

Use of the BX is one thing that has always chaffed me a little bit.  I know AAFES merchandise is subsidized by the DOD, but you would think they could allow CAP folks to purchase items as a little side benefit for being an active CAP member.  After all, doesn't CAP stand for "come and pay".  It would seem a small token of appreciation for what we do.

Technically, CAP can't purchase gear-type items like alcohol pens, protractors, LBE, flashlights, etc.  (I guess that you can buy a CamelBak, since it IS a uniform item)  At the very least, seeing as we use this stuff for AIR FORCE-assigned missions, we should be able to buy gear stuff. 

Also, when I went to buy shoes at MCCS (Fort Indiantown Gap), they told me that I couldn't buy DSCP shoes.  Huh?  I've been buying whatever is available in my size, DSCP or commercial, for years, but I've bought a heck of a lot of DSCP items at a lot of facilities throughout the country.  I'd never heard this before, nor have I seen it in an AR or anything.  Anybody know the deal with this??