Army Ranger Tab on CAP BDUs

[Flying Pig]

I have some real world experience with this issue so I can chime in what I do know.
The tab while now authorized on the ABU, was originally not, and on the BDU's, it was authorized for wear only while the member was currently slotted and assigned to an Army unit. Thus, the only people whom ever were authorized to wear the tab on the BDUs were TACP/ALOs and Combat Weather Team guys. So unless somehow a CAP member gets assigned to an Army unit, it is NOT authorized on the BDUs.
The pin on Ranger tab is authorized on the blues, along with Special Forces, and Sapper tabs. It is worn the same as any other badge, it can be worn above the ribbons (though seldom done), or centered on the pocket. (Not the pocket flap as we did in the Army).

Darn it... you beat me to it!

[Panzerbjorn]

So, this thread starts with a question regarding the authorization and placement of a badge, and it's devolved into arguing semantics and reminders that the guy could be subject to stolen valor scrutinization. I know this is the nature of CAPTalk, but c'mon, guys.

[Eclipse]

So, this thread starts with a question regarding the authorization and placement of a badge, and it's devolved into arguing semantics and reminders that the guy could be subject to stolen valor scrutinization. I know this is the nature of CAPTalk, but c'mon, guys.

The same >exact< conversation if asked in person.

A new member wants to wear an unusual insignia, he is going to be asked to substantiate it, and not just once.  He'll need to
deal with that, maybe even carry the letter of approval from NHQ or the relevent reg page in his pocket, because he'll be fine
at his home unit, but every larger-scale activity he participates in, where people don't' know him, there will be legitimate questions.

As to "semantics" - where, exactly?

[Flying Pig]

So, this thread starts with a question regarding the authorization and placement of a badge, and it's devolved into arguing semantics and reminders that the guy could be subject to stolen valor scrutinization. I know this is the nature of CAPTalk, but c'mon, guys.

I don't think its referring to stolen valor.  The point GroundHawg made was that (unless its changed) you only wear the ranger tab in certain assignments.  Has the AF changes it to where the tab is a permanent badge worn for the rest of your career?  If not, then its a dead issue for a CAP member. 

[THRAWN]

Just a crazy out of left field thought....wear CAP stuff on your CAP uni, and Army/Navy/Air Force/MarineCorps/Coast Guard stuff on those unis.

Blasphamy. How will the new guy feel if he doesn't have double the ribbons of guys who've been in CAP for 5+ years?

I know, I know....I'll report for the required lashes...

[Panzerbjorn]

If he has to prove that he earned it beyond sending in the required paperwork, isn't that being tested?

No one said "beyond", but he needs to substantiate it to his CC, and in that it is both unusual and something which
is subject to SVa >lot<, at least be prepared to respond respectfully and in good humor if people ask.

Yes, we DO seem to be talking stolen valor. 

Tell you all what, I'll leave it up to you guys to scrutinize everyone who wears jump wings, military ribbons, etc. to make sure they actually are authorized to wear them by producing a copy of NHQ letters on demand.  Me, I'm just going to assume they have integrity. 

[Panzerbjorn]

So, this thread starts with a question regarding the authorization and placement of a badge, and it's devolved into arguing semantics and reminders that the guy could be subject to stolen valor scrutinization. I know this is the nature of CAPTalk, but c'mon, guys.

I don't think its referring to stolen valor.  The point GroundHawg made was that (unless its changed) you only wear the ranger tab in certain assignments.  Has the AF changes it to where the tab is a permanent badge worn for the rest of your career?  If not, then its a dead issue for a CAP member.

It doesn't seem that this is referring to duty specific wear.  It reads like permanent awarded and worn.

[Flying Pig]

If he has to prove that he earned it beyond sending in the required paperwork, isn't that being tested?

No one said "beyond", but he needs to substantiate it to his CC, and in that it is both unusual and something which
is subject to SVa >lot<, at least be prepared to respond respectfully and in good humor if people ask.

Yes, we DO seem to be talking stolen valor. 

Tell you all what, I'll leave it up to you guys to scrutinize everyone who wears jump wings, military ribbons, etc. to make sure they actually are authorized to wear them by producing a copy of NHQ letters on demand.  Me, I'm just going to assume they have integrity.

I don't know that anyone really just confronts people.  However, I know a number of full blown posers who ran around CAP for years sporting SEAL Tridents, Master Parachutist wings, Dive badge, EOD Badge, row upon row of ribbons they never earned, Purple Heart, USMC Warrant Officer.  Naval Aviator Wings.  Is it en epidemic?  No.. Does it happen enough that someone may ask you about it?  Yes.  And those are just the ones Ive dealt with personally.  And none of those came from me confronting anyone.  Just wanting to talk shop with another vet.  And strangely enough, they all wanted to work with cadets.  I can cite 5 people Ive dealt with in CAP who were so full of BS after just a short conversation it was hard not to just laugh and look for the candid camera hidden in the bushes. 

Whats that old saying?  Trust,  but Verify.

[THRAWN]

If he has to prove that he earned it beyond sending in the required paperwork, isn't that being tested?

No one said "beyond", but he needs to substantiate it to his CC, and in that it is both unusual and something which
is subject to SVa >lot<, at least be prepared to respond respectfully and in good humor if people ask.

Yes, we DO seem to be talking stolen valor. 

Tell you all what, I'll leave it up to you guys to scrutinize everyone who wears jump wings, military ribbons, etc. to make sure they actually are authorized to wear them by producing a copy of NHQ letters on demand.  Me, I'm just going to assume they have integrity.

I don't know that anyone really just confronts people.  However, I know a number of full blown posers who ran around CAP for years sporting SEAL Tridents, Master Parachutist wings, Dive badge, EOD Badge, row upon row of ribbons they never earned, Purple Heart, USMC Warrant Officer.  Naval Aviator Wings.  Is it en epidemic?  No.. Does it happen enough that someone may ask you about it?  Yes.  And those are just the ones Ive dealt with personally.  And none of those came from me confronting anyone.  Just wanting to talk shop with another vet.  And strangely enough, they all wanted to work with cadets.  I can cite 5 people Ive dealt with in CAP who were so full of BS after just a short conversation it was hard not to just laugh and look for the candid camera hidden in the bushes. 

Whats that old saying?  Trust,  but Verify.

Trut dat. Had a guy who claimed to be all kinds of SF, had more SAR quals than would fit on a 101, you know the type. When he finally coughed up a 214, and some certs, it was obvious that he was "wookin pa nub". It was clear that this guy never got a certificate from the "US Army School on Infintry" (no kidding, that was the spelling) at Fort Jackson (no joke...)...he was gone very soon after that....

[Panzerbjorn]

I'm not denying it happens.  But I usually wait until the spidey sense tells me something isn't quite right.   Then I question.  But the simple fact of someone wearing a tab or something doesn't spark that need to question. 

I will concede the point that perhaps more scrutinization is warranted when the member in question wants to work with cadets.  I certainly don't want to provide my cadets with anything less than a leader they can look up to.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm not denying it happens.  But I usually wait until the spidey sense tells me something isn't quite right.   Then I question.  But the simple fact of someone wearing a tab or something doesn't spark that need to question. 

I will concede the point that perhaps more scrutinization is warranted when the member in question wants to work with cadets.  I certainly don't want to provide my cadets with anything less than a leader they can look up to.

The worst Ranger experience I ever had was a real one - a former officer even. Made life hell at encampment for his assigned flight (TAC officer), and not in the "high standards" kind of way.

[Nuke52]

I have some real world experience with this issue so I can chime in what I do know.
The tab while now authorized on the ABU, was originally not, and on the BDU's, it was authorized for wear only while the member was currently slotted and assigned to an Army unit. Thus, the only people whom ever were authorized to wear the tab on the BDUs were TACP/ALOs and Combat Weather Team guys. So unless somehow a CAP member gets assigned to an Army unit, it is NOT authorized on the BDUs.

I agree with you here.  The only possible grey area would be for a dual-USAF/CAP member currently assigned to a TACP, Combat Weather, etc., who would have been authorized to wear it on the BDUs, were they still authorized for USAF wear (which they are not).  And even then, that does not translate into "if someone were hypothetically authorized to wear a tab on their BDUs as a USAF member (no provision for former Army to wear Ranger Tab in USAF BDUs, unless authorized as current TACP, etc.) that they can then wear the tab on their CAP uniform.  And, as you and others correctly point out, there is still no connection between what USAF allows on USAF ABUs and what is allowed on CAP BDUs.

The pin on Ranger tab is authorized on the blues, along with Special Forces, and Sapper tabs. It is worn the same as any other badge, it can be worn above the ribbons (though seldom done), or centered on the pocket. (Not the pocket flap as we did in the Army).

However, they're only authorized if related to the airman's "current primary mission," per para 10.5, otherwise "[badges] not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform."

Having said all that...  it looks like I can wear my combat patch on my BDUs then, right?   

[Eclipse]

I'm not denying it happens.  But I usually wait until the spidey sense tells me something isn't quite right.   Then I question.  But the simple fact of someone wearing a tab or something doesn't spark that need to question. 

Honestly, in my mind it does.

My personal experience is that the more excited a member is about displaying their plumage, the higher the poser needle starts moving, especially with new members.
Generally the more BTDT someone is, the less excited they are about a bunch of CAP members, or anyone else not in their "club" knowing about it.

It's one thing to blend in some military decs into your rack, few will know or care, but if you choose to wear a huge gold pin, or similar,
you're obviously looking for people to notice - "why" then becomes the question, when a Trident or a Sapper, or a tab, has zero relevance in CAP.

To quote my PD friend "If you choose to draw attention to yourself, you will get it."

[Flying Pig]

Be glad we arent to Coast Guard where jump wings arent authorized.  A Marine I knew went to CG OCS and was not happy that his gold wings were not authorized    Maybe they are now, I don't know.  But in 1998 they weren't

[Devil Doc]

Heck, Since I started on the Forum and showed my Signature, Im sure the first thing Eclipse, Flying Pig, and a few others did, was fact check my ribbon rack.

[LSThiker]

I don't know that anyone really just confronts people.  However, I know a number of full blown posers who ran around CAP for years sporting SEAL Tridents, Master Parachutist wings, Dive badge, EOD Badge, row upon row of ribbons they never earned, Purple Heart, USMC Warrant Officer.

As a SQ/CC, it was easy to verify those guys by asking for the documentation, DD-214, NGB-22, etc.  If they produced it, great.  If not, then told them to take it off.  If it was someone outside my AOR, I usually went with my guy feeling.  If it did not seem right, I would talk with their SQ/CC and see if they had produced the appropriate documentation.  After that, I went about my day.

[JC004]

Heck, Since I started on the Forum and showed my Signature, Im sure the first thing Eclipse, Flying Pig, and a few others did, was fact check my ribbon rack.

I think you're right.  If I remember correctly, I think you came into existence on CAPTalk just around the time there were a couple actual posers. 

[lordmonar]

All this argument about grey areas....who has submitted the KB question?

Anyone?
Anyone?

By my interpretation of the regulations and AFI the ranger tab is authorized on the BDU's on the shoulder.

[Ned]

If it was someone outside my AOR, I usually went with my guy feeling. 

Me, too.  I usually take my guy feelings to the nearest minor league ball park.   

[Shuman 14]

Be glad we arent to Coast Guard where jump wings arent authorized.  A Marine I knew went to CG OCS and was not happy that his gold wings were not authorized    Maybe they are now, I don't know.  But in 1998 they weren't

The catch-22 now on other Services badges in the Coast Guard is they must be awarded while a USCG member.

SO... you can wear Jump Wings, you just have go to Airborne School as a Coastie.

FYI, I know USCG Academy Cadets can go to Airborne School as part of their "summer training" opportunities