Army Ranger Tab on CAP BDUs

[Flying Pig]

I don't want to derail this at all.... but I think its interesting that an AF LE would have the foundation to attend and Ranger School.  I didn't attend, but I figured it would be pretty rough without a formal infantry foundation.  In the Marines, the only guys who get Ranger school slots are Snipers and Force Recon types. 

[TheTravelingAirman]

They are our "Infantry", though. We don't rely on other service's assets for base security or force protection, so they have to be able to provide all that on their own, with training from other services if need be. Not everyone gets to go, of course, but we can send folks.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not an SP (don't try to pull this "Security Forces" or "SecFo" stuff), but I've worked with them, and augie'd.

[SarDragon]

CAPM 39-1 makes a very clear distinction between badges and patches. It also clearly specifies which of each are authorized. The Ranger tab isn't in either list.

As for the Ranger tab on USAF uniforms, the only discussion in the AFI relates to the ABU, which we don't wear. That leads me to believe that it is not currently authorized for wear on CAP uniforms.

[JC004]

I assume, if found to be all on the up and up, that you've prepared this person for the fact that they might get questions? 

I used to get questions as a cadet on the Lifesaving because many people had never seen one and it's similar to a Spaatz ribbon (so some thought I was wearing that, and some thought it was shady that a cadet was wearing such a high ribbon).  It got so ridiculous at one conference, that then-MDWG CC (Col Trick, who is awesome and was visiting us) intervened and told people to leave me alone.

For one thing, there might be some who see a new member and that raises and eyebrow.  Then there will be those who think "this person is a CAP Ranger and decided to wear that..."

[GroundHawg]

I have some real world experience with this issue so I can chime in what I do know.
The tab while now authorized on the ABU, was originally not, and on the BDU's, it was authorized for wear only while the member was currently slotted and assigned to an Army unit. Thus, the only people whom ever were authorized to wear the tab on the BDUs were TACP/ALOs and Combat Weather Team guys. So unless somehow a CAP member gets assigned to an Army unit, it is NOT authorized on the BDUs.
The pin on Ranger tab is authorized on the blues, along with Special Forces, and Sapper tabs. It is worn the same as any other badge, it can be worn above the ribbons (though seldom done), or centered on the pocket. (Not the pocket flap as we did in the Army).

[Panzerbjorn]

I assume, if found to be all on the up and up, that you've prepared this person for the fact that they might get questions? 

I used to get questions as a cadet on the Lifesaving because many people had never seen one and it's similar to a Spaatz ribbon (so some thought I was wearing that, and some thought it was shady that a cadet was wearing such a high ribbon).  It got so ridiculous at one conference, that then-MDWG CC (Col Trick, who is awesome and was visiting us) intervened and told people to leave me alone.

For one thing, there might be some who see a new member and that raises and eyebrow.  Then there will be those who think "this person is a CAP Ranger and decided to wear that..."

I would find that very entertaining to watch, some CAP member going up and 'testing' a Ranger to see if he's legit.  Knowing this guy, he would just smile and be prepared to make the the doubter feel about an inch tall.  I live about 50 miles from Ft. Bragg.  Back in the Midwest, if someone was claiming to be Rangers or Special Forces, I'd raise an eyebrows and wonder.  Around here, there are plenty of the real thing walking around that usually you don't want to risk the embarrassment of questioning a legit SF.

But I also hear what you're saying.  I get questions every now and then about my hurricane relief patch From Katrina I wear on the "anything goes" pocket of my BDUs.  I was once questioned by someone who is very proud of his service for two weeks down on the Gulf Coast.  He was polite and pleasant about the questions, but I knew what he was doing, basically throwing down a challenge coin.    I was nice about it and talked about how I was working for FEMA at the time and would fly Sundowner and coastal patrols on my days off the six months I was down there.  I think it satisfied his questions as he never brought it up again.

I don't think it'll be an issue at any rate.

[Panzerbjorn]

CAPM 39-1 makes a very clear distinction between badges and patches. It also clearly specifies which of each are authorized. The Ranger tab isn't in either list.

As for the Ranger tab on USAF uniforms, the only discussion in the AFI relates to the ABU, which we don't wear. That leads me to believe that it is not currently authorized for wear on CAP uniforms.

Okay, then why are we directed to AFI 36-2903 for wear of military badges and insignia when BDUs aren't mentioned anywhere in there?

Asking seriously, not trying to be a smart alec.

[Eclipse]

I would find that very entertaining to watch, some CAP member going up and 'testing' a Ranger to see if he's legit.  Knowing this guy, he would just smile and be prepared to make the the doubter feel about an inch tall. 

Testing?  No. Require substantiation No problem.

the "anything goes" pocket of my BDUs.

The what now? 

[Panzerbjorn]

the "anything goes" pocket of my BDUs.

The what now?

The left pocket.  The one where you would put a patch you received from a CAP event like MERSAR, NESA, etc.  the 'anything goes', 'I love me', 'look what I did' pocket.

Not sure I understand what you mean by substantiation. You mean prove that he earned it?

[Eclipse]

The left pocket.  The one where you would put a patch you received from a CAP event like MERSAR, NESA, etc.  the 'anything goes', 'I love me', 'look what I did' pocket.

It's not "anything goes", there's a list and then you could have an approved supp for "other".  You're wearing a FEMA patch there?

Not sure I understand what you mean by substantiation. You mean prove that he earned it?

Yes.

[SarDragon]

CAPM 39-1 makes a very clear distinction between badges and patches. It also clearly specifies which of each are authorized. The Ranger tab isn't in either list.

As for the Ranger tab on USAF uniforms, the only discussion in the AFI relates to the ABU, which we don't wear. That leads me to believe that it is not currently authorized for wear on CAP uniforms.

Okay, then why are we directed to AFI 36-2903 for wear of military badges and insignia when BDUs aren't mentioned anywhere in there?

Asking seriously, not trying to be a smart alec.

Because there are also items that may be worn on the blues. The correlation between USAF and CAP versions of that uniform remains.

[Private Investigator]

I would find that very entertaining to watch, some CAP member going up and 'testing' a Ranger to see if he's legit.  Knowing this guy, he would just smile and be prepared to make the the doubter feel about an inch tall. 

I don't think it'll be an issue at any rate.

When I was in the Army National Guard (Infantry unit) we had a PV2 show up with a "Ranger" tab. He thought no one in the Guard would question him. Same guy also had a accidental discharge with his M-16 on full automatic, with blanks, inside of an APC. He was a career PV1.   

[Flying Pig]

Not nearly as exciting as the E-8 in my Reserve Infantry unit who wore a SEAL Trident for several years before a buddy of mine called him out at a drill after he got tired of hearing his stories.  Last I heard from him he was sobbing like a baby telling everyone how sorry he was with no stripes on his collar.  Oh yeah... and the Jump Wings and the Ranger tab he wore were fake to.   And yes, you read that right..... he was a Master Sgt.  WAS.

[Panzerbjorn]

The left pocket.  The one where you would put a patch you received from a CAP event like MERSAR, NESA, etc.  the 'anything goes', 'I love me', 'look what I did' pocket.

It's not "anything goes", there's a list and then you could have an approved supp for "other".  You're wearing a FEMA patch there?

Not sure I understand what you mean by substantiation. You mean prove that he earned it?

Yes.

No, I'm wearing a CAP patch there. If he has to prove that he earned it beyond sending in the required paperwork, isn't that being tested?

[Panzerbjorn]

CAPM 39-1 makes a very clear distinction between badges and patches. It also clearly specifies which of each are authorized. The Ranger tab isn't in either list.

As for the Ranger tab on USAF uniforms, the only discussion in the AFI relates to the ABU, which we don't wear. That leads me to believe that it is not currently authorized for wear on CAP uniforms.

Okay, then why are we directed to AFI 36-2903 for wear of military badges and insignia when BDUs aren't mentioned anywhere in there?

Asking seriously, not trying to be a smart alec.

Because there are also items that may be worn on the blues. The correlation between USAF and CAP versions of that uniform remains.

But we're being referred to the AFI specifically regarding the BDUs

[Eclipse]

If he has to prove that he earned it beyond sending in the required paperwork, isn't that being tested?

No one said "beyond", but he needs to substantiate it to his CC, and in that it is both unusual and something which
is subject to SV a >lot<, at least be prepared to respond respectfully and in good humor if people ask.

[Eclipse]

But we're being referred to the AFI specifically regarding the BDUs

Ergo...

[THRAWN]

Just a crazy out of left field thought....wear CAP stuff on your CAP uni, and Army/Navy/Air Force/MarineCorps/Coast Guard stuff on those unis.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Just a crazy out of left field thought....wear CAP stuff on your CAP uni, and Army/Navy/Air Force/MarineCorps/Coast Guard stuff on those unis.

Blasphamy. How will the new guy feel if he doesn't have double the ribbons of guys who've been in CAP for 5+ years?

[jeders]

The left pocket.  The one where you would put a patch you received from a CAP event like MERSAR, NESA, etc.  the 'anything goes', 'I love me', 'look what I did' pocket.

It's not "anything goes", there's a list and then you could have an approved supp for "other".  You're wearing a FEMA patch there?

No, I'm wearing a CAP patch there.

And there are any number of CAP patches which are not authorized to be worn on the uniform. Last time I checked, a Hurricane Katrina Relief Patch wasn't one of the authorized patches; unless of course NC WG has a supplement saying it's ok.