New Cadet Programs Specialty Track Pamphlet P216 published

[abdsp51]

^ I hear you pain and understand your frustration. However, I feel that what you've described here in not a good enough reason to leave CAP; but that's just me. While progression is part of this organization, it's not the purpose of it's existence. We have three primary missions and, while progression and professional development are important, they're not one of them. You can certainly continue to work with cadets and help develop our youth into tomorrow's leaders regardless of your specialty track rating. Things need to improve in CAP, but the way to do that is not by quitting. Those who leave CAP can't effect change within the organization; only those who stay can.

Sir, while you may feel it's not a good reason, it would be one reason and it's one of the major reasons.  This is not a means to retain membership at all.  Change I get but to kick something out that is not fully developed and requiring more from members in the process is a piss poor leadership move period.   And the silence that has followed does not help the issue to ease anything.  And the only way things are going to improve is by thought out methods of planning and execution and in some places a cleaning house. This was poorly thought out and executed and there is nothing being provided to membership at all.  It's basically been crammed down our throats with the expectation of "Thank you Sir, may I have another."

[dwb]

It says that no one is perfect. The NHQ Cadet Team goes to great lengths to cultivate a good relationship with CP folks in the wings and squadrons. The Proving Grounds section of the web site is evidence of this. They want member input, they don't want to alienate the people they know are their customers.

That said, it appears this one pamphlet was pushed out the door before the supporting materials were completed. I wouldn't draw negative conclusions from this one gaffe.

I don't expect perfection from anyone.  But both my commander and I have been ignored on this matter completely, by the NHQ staff other than my commander saying it's being worked.  Sorry but this is crap, prematurely published or not little has been done on the matter and basically they don't care that members have been screwed and progression halted.  My last contact with the NHQ staff was on 10 Feb and there has been nothing else since then.  I don't view that as cultivating a good relationship nor a response of "it's being worked on"  is one either. 

I have busted my keyster to stay on top of my own PD and take care of cadets and this is the thanks given.  Oh here you go more requirements for you to do for your rating and oh wait the stuff hasn't been built and there is no recourse for you sorry.

I totally understand your frustration, and you have good reason to be upset. No one likes to have the goalposts moved on them, and it's even worse when the new goalposts are unreachable!

That's why I have advised people who started under the old requirements to finish under them. It's hardly an optimal solution, but I think it's the least bad one until we get better guidance on the transition.

Keep in mind that NHQ/CP is basically two people (well, they just added a third), and they've also been finalizing the new CPP and encampment curriculum. I'm not making excuses for the 216, but as a DCP I've tried to encourage patience. I'm sitting in the middle of it and I can see both points of view: squadrons and groups are upset because the requirements changed abruptly (I'm upset too, the new 216 is a disappointment), and NHQ is trying to make things right with the thousand other "priority 1" items on their plate.

I'm hoping for a speedy resolution on this at least as much as you are. I hope you reconsider your decision to leave, I'd hate to have an administrative gaffe be the proverbial last straw.

[abdsp51]

I totally understand your frustration, and you have good reason to be upset. No one likes to have the goalposts moved on them, and it's even worse when the new goalposts are unreachable!

That's why I have advised people who started under the old requirements to finish under them. It's hardly an optimal solution, but I think it's the least bad one until we get better guidance on the transition.

Keep in mind that NHQ/CP is basically two people (well, they just added a third), and they've also been finalizing the new CPP and encampment curriculum. I'm not making excuses for the 216, but as a DCP I've tried to encourage patience. I'm sitting in the middle of it and I can see both points of view: squadrons and groups are upset because the requirements changed abruptly (I'm upset too, the new 216 is a disappointment), and NHQ is trying to make things right with the thousand other "priority 1" items on their plate.

I'm hoping for a speedy resolution on this at least as much as you are. I hope you reconsider your decision to leave, I'd hate to have an administrative gaffe be the proverbial last straw.

That's the thing, you can't have folks finish under the old pamphlet as it is now obsolete with the publication of the new one.  An administrative gaffe maybe but the blatant silence and basically it is what it is up yours is unacceptable.  It's been two months and nothing more from NHQ but it's being worked,  that is unacceptable.  Why should I be patient when my own development now has to stagnant because someone got button happy and there is no reprieve or recourse but to just take it?  That is not a way to treat membership in any regards from any organization. 

[Storm Chaser]

That's the thing, you can't have folks finish under the old pamphlet as it is now obsolete with the publication of the new one.

Interesting enough, CAPR 5-4 states that ""Pamphlets" are nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications that may include suggested methods and techniques for implementing CAP policies."

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. If you're fed up with CAP, then maybe you should find something else to do. Staying in CAP while you're unhappy with the organization doesn't help anyone, especially the cadets you work with. Good luck and thank you for your service to CAP.

[Eclipse]

Interesting enough, CAPR 5-4 states that ""Pamphlets" are nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications that may include suggested methods and techniques for implementing CAP policies."

And to that end, and within reason and integrity, it is the subjective call of the approving CC as to when the rating is complete.

Subjective.

There is no requirement of paperwork to be kept, or record of required reading or summary conversations.

It's 100% up to the Commander with the button.

I always held to a pretty tight line on this, and did require paperwork to back things up, but I know more then a few
approvers who took the tack of "Hey, you've been doing cadet stuff for a while..."  ((*click*)).

Etc., etc.

[arajca]

That's the thing, you can't have folks finish under the old pamphlet as it is now obsolete with the publication of the new one.

Interesting enough, CAPR 5-4 states that ""Pamphlets" are nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications that may include suggested methods and techniques for implementing CAP policies."

However, when referenced by a reg, they change from informative to regulatory.

[Storm Chaser]

I don't disagree. In fact, I've always made it a point to document everything and present such documentation to the evaluator/OJT supervisor and/or commander. It's a matter of integrity, IMHO. I do the same when I'm training/mentoring other senior members.

[abdsp51]

That's the thing, you can't have folks finish under the old pamphlet as it is now obsolete with the publication of the new one.

Interesting enough, CAPR 5-4 states that ""Pamphlets" are nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications that may include suggested methods and techniques for implementing CAP policies."

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. If you're fed up with CAP, then maybe you should find something else to do. Staying in CAP while you're unhappy with the organization doesn't help anyone, especially the cadets you work with. Good luck and thank you for your service to CAP.

That may be so but when they are tied into professional development then they are regulatory and when new ones are published the older ones are then obsolete. 

Fed up, yep I am fed up that the powers to be can do this and not have a plan in place to deal with the backlash or some type of recourse.  And it shows just how much integrity they have, since they can't be bothered to provide anything to membership besides "it's being worked"  You can't tell me that's not a cop out answer, and I know I am not the only fed up with this move. 

[Storm Chaser]

^ As I said before, I understand your decision and wish you the best.

[Eclipse]

To be fair, it literally probably didn't occur to those making the decision that it would affect anyone like this.

Agreed it's a cop-out and the typical response when someone is found to have made a big mistake.

The proper response is "Oh, man, our bad.  Here's the sundown..."

However "meh" is easier.

[Майор Хаткевич]

To be fair, it literally probably didn't occur to those making the decision that it would affect anyone like this.

Agreed it's a cop-out and the typical response when someone is found to have made a big mistake.

The proper response is "Oh, man, our bad.  Here's the sundown..."

However "meh" is easier.

Har har har. "New requirements!" Everyone must be at zero right now anyway, right?

If that's how they run their process,  no wonder we're such a mess.

[abdsp51]

Har har har. "New requirements!" Everyone must be at zero right now anyway, right?

If that's how they run their process,  no wonder we're such a mess.

We're a mess because people kick things outs before everything is set up and there is no recourse for membership. 

[Ned]

Sorry to be late to this thread.

I've pinged the CP crew and there will be indeed a grandfather provision that will allow members to complete the requirements they began under the old system.

Obviously that was not communicated effectively, and that will be corrected.

Watch for an update within the next day or two on the CP page.

Ned Lee
Cadet Program Enthusiast.

[abdsp51]

Sorry to be late to this thread.

I've pinged the CP crew and there will be indeed a grandfather provision that will allow members to complete the requirements they began under the old system.

Obviously that was not communicated effectively, and that will be corrected.

Watch for an update within the next day or two on the CP page.

Ned Lee
Cadet Program Enthusiast.

Sir, I have been pinging them off and on and have gotten the silent treatment completely.  My own CC two weeks ago was told things are in the works.  What assurance do we the membership have that this will occurr?

[Storm Chaser]

The nerves of those evil people at NHQ/CP... Just kidding! Thanks, Ned!

[Storm Chaser]

What assurance do we the membership have that this will occurr?

Watch for an update within the next day or two on the CP page.

Ned Lee
Cadet Program Enthusiast.

I think you got your answer.

[PHall]

Sorry to be late to this thread.

I've pinged the CP crew and there will be indeed a grandfather provision that will allow members to complete the requirements they began under the old system.

Obviously that was not communicated effectively, and that will be corrected.

Watch for an update within the next day or two on the CP page.

Ned Lee
Cadet Program Enthusiast.

Sir, I have been pinging them off and on and have gotten the silent treatment completely.  My own CC two weeks ago was told things are in the works.  What assurance do we the membership have that this will occurr?

That's because Ned's pings are PINGS  while your pings are pings.  Comprende'?

[abdsp51]

Sorry to be late to this thread.

I've pinged the CP crew and there will be indeed a grandfather provision that will allow members to complete the requirements they began under the old system.

Obviously that was not communicated effectively, and that will be corrected.

Watch for an update within the next day or two on the CP page.

Ned Lee
Cadet Program Enthusiast.

Sir, I have been pinging them off and on and have gotten the silent treatment completely.  My own CC two weeks ago was told things are in the works.  What assurance do we the membership have that this will occurr?

That's because Ned's pings are PINGS  while your pings are pings.  Comprende'?

Still it should not have taken a member of the BoG and a prominent member asking for something to flow. 

[a2capt]

..and the whole bit about "prematurely being published". Using the CMS takes a distinct intent to put a document out. It means that the left was not talking to the right.

[abdsp51]

Well unless you were pursuing a master rating in CP or DDR you are hosed in any regards to your ratings.  Thank you NHQ for screwing people over.