Cadet Participation in ES (Ground Team)

[Stonewall]

Woodsy-Some instructors post here they reduced costs by keeping and reusing books. However this is against instructor agreements that both the American Red Cross and the American Heart Association clearly show on agreements their instructors have to sign. These agreements state that basically each student has to get a book. I do not know how they can get away with this, ignoring something they signed, and then expect cadets to show integrity.

What "some instructors"?  I'm the only one that posted that, so call me out if you need to.  I'm okay with it.  Truth is, I don't recall exactly how we did it, but we did something that allowed us to not have recurring costs of materials.  This was more than 6 years ago so I don't recall the exact process.  We may have violated something unknowingly, but not intentional, but each time we ran a class we had to go to the ARC office, sign for, pay for, and accept all required materials, including books.  There's no way to get away without acquiring the proper materials from the ARC office.  Example - we couldn't go pick up mannequins, practice AED, and tests, and NOT pick up the correct amount of books for the number of students. 

So yeah, we did something to save costs, I'm not sure exactly what it was, but we did not violate any type of agreement.  The checks & balances didn't allow for it. 

EDIT:   In fact, now I remember what we did...just to clear up and to keep someone from blaming "some instructors" for violating integrity.  My employer at the time had ALL the training supplies, to include mannequins and practice AED.  My boss at the time was also the Vice Wing Commander, and gave me approval to use the company's equipment for training CAP members.  So now that I think about it, we did the opposite.  We used "owned equipment" and only had to charge for the books.

Instead of saying "you're a bad example, you violate integrity some instructor Stonewall", you could have said "hey man, you sure that's what you did, because that likely violated the instructor/ARC contract.".

[Luis R. Ramos]

Stonewall-

That is exactly why I did not use your name. I do not know what you did.

And before I read your message, I have read on these boards other posters stating they are/were ARC and AHA instructors and that is how they saved. By reusing books. Again, I am not specifically stating you are "guilty." Or you are a "violator." Please, don't get upset, that was not my intention! Again, I was not referring specifically to you!

Flyer

[Walkman]

When I checked with the Red Cross to see about getting group rates for the squadron, it ended up being around $70 per student. I can do a bunch of GTM training weekends were everyone chips in $10 for food for that.

[Woodsy]

The class that I did that I said was $10, well it was around that...  It may have been $12, or maybe even $15, but I'm sure it wasn't any more than that.  Also, students were given a list of materials to bring for first aid practice, that was maybe $5 worth of stuff.  The instructor was able to get the CPR dummies from someone that owned them personally. 

The course was conducted by a member that provided us with cards and books (each student got to keep the book.) 

One reason it may have been cheaper is that it was not an ARC or AHA course.  I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but it was some national accredited association... 

[Spaceman3750]

ARC raised their rates significantly last year or so. In my area, FA or CPR alone at a chapter will run you about $70 and both will be about $90. Last time I priced it out I can teach FA only for $25ish since I only pay for materials and the course record fee.

[SARDOC]

Some FA/CPR certifying agencies will allow you to library books for reuse if you are a nonprofit organization to help keep costs down.  The Emergency Care and Safety Institute is one of those.  Instead of each student having a full text, they do provide a small pamphlet (for a nominal Fee) Which is way cheaper than a text, but will still allow them to issue a card.   Shop around and see who has the best deal.

just remember the certifying agency curriculum must meet the requirements set forth in the National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational
Settings.  Check CAPR60-3 for a link.

[Private Investigator]

I think the Cadet should have the option.

[Private Investigator]

I happen to be the only member in my squadron (cadet or senior) who is qualified in anything ES, or even GTM.

My current Squadron has 25 Cadets and 50 Seniors and I have personally more Finds from my previous Squadron than 'all' of them put together. They are one of those units who wants to do ES on a nice Saturday morning for a few hours or occassionally an overnighter, Sat/Sun. But Monday at oh dark thirty or 2300 on a Thursday night. Unheard of indeed. We do not even have a roster for a call out.   

[Stonewall]

For those opposed to ES training being held during a regular meeting for all members, including cadets, it would make it difficult for a person trying to attain their Senior Rating in the ES specialty track.

To complete the senior level of this specialty track, members must:

- Arrange for one ES related class of instruction for all unit personnel at the unit level each month during the regular meeting time.  Lesson plans and supporting documentation should be retained at the unit level for future use.

I suppose, cadets and seniors could opt out since ES isn't mandatory curriculum for cadets, but why not just participate?

[Eclipse]

My wing CC has mandated that ES will be a part of the regular curriculum and activity schedules for all units.  Many already had this as a simple matter of course.  Compliance has not been consistent, but that is primarily with the units that have no schedule to speak of anyway.

If the unit CC decides that ES is important, it will be.  A small percentage will complain, not because of the merits, but simply because complaining is what people do.  People could find a reason to complain about free ice cream.

In my most successful CAP endeavors, I charted an informed course and then walked it, adjusting where necessary.  In the ones where I
had less success, I spent far too much time worrying about 1%'er marginal performers who ultimately did nothing regardless of the
opportunity or situation.  Making decisive change at least ends the "conversations" quickly and everyone can move on, instead of
pulling the band-aid off slowly and pleasing no one.

[LGM30GMCC]

As a potentially free substitute for American Red Cross First Aid, what are folks thoughts (those with experience) on the Self-Aid Buddy Care (SABC) training given by the USAF. It contains both the computer and hands-on training?

[Eclipse]

As a potentially free substitute for American Red Cross First Aid, what are folks thoughts (those with experience) on the Self-Aid Buddy Care (SABC) training given by the USAF. It contains both the computer and hands-on training?

The training itself probably exceeds the mandate, but it's not open to CAP members.

As an SET I'd certainly accept a completion card or certificate from a member for ES quals that require First Aid.

[RogueLeader]

As a potentially free substitute for American Red Cross First Aid, what are folks thoughts (those with experience) on the Self-Aid Buddy Care (SABC) training given by the USAF. It contains both the computer and hands-on training?

I would love to take it.  I'm currently expired.  I'm sure our unit would love to have it.  Please feel free to stop by our meeting.  You aren't too far from us. 

[Eclipse]

This would not meet the requirements for CAP members.

[Spaceman3750]

This would not meet the requirements for CAP members.

For the purposes of GTM. But if you're not a GTM, then anything is fair game.

[Stonewall]

I'm an SABC instructor and the only thing that says so is some list our medical group maintains. Likewise, there's no card or credential to show for SABC training unless you're in the AF and can show it on your training transcripts.

[sarmed1]

This would not meet the requirements for CAP members.

Which part? if its only "online training" then no, but as long as there is "hands on" portion I believe  (as was previously discussed) its ok.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14650.msg264727#msg264727

Kirt: If your wing doesnt issue a "card" a standard USAF Certificate of Training issued for each student should be adequate

mk