Uniforms you'd like to see brought back...

[SarDragon]

Me, for one. Its wear was reserved for those members who met the grooming standards for the AF-style uniform. My beard disqualified me.

[Stonewall]

Here we go.  I've owned this jungle fatigue top for about 22 or 23 years, since I was a cadet...

[Devil Doc]

I really dont see what is wrong with the FAT and FUZZY when the corporate uniform is not a Military uniform. CAP made it up, CAP makes the rules?

[LGM30GMCC]

As a slender and smooth (But I'm AD USAF so I kinda have to be  ) I would say we don't want to have a uniform for the fat and fuzzy. We want to have a uniform that can be worn by any of our members as they so desire. Might just seem like semantics but I think it is an important distinction in that makes it clear its a uniform to meet a professional image.

My issues with the CSU were the fact that it went so far above and beyond the service dress that it reeked of wannabeism. We can't wear hard rank on the service dress...but hey we can on this! Oooh silver sleeve braid? SHINY! Same thing with the white/blue uniform combination. Look look look! We're wearing AF Shoulder marks and you can't stop meeeeee! It just seemed childish.

I think the CSU with the same slides as on the service dress, and with blue sleeve braid as opposed to silver and it would have caused a lot less of an uproar. (There were those who really didn't like it.)

As to the grooming standards I can see both views of the argument. Some beards and longer hair styles can look very professional. However others look like Billybobrayjoe just came out of the back woods. Now Billy is likely a wonderful person, doing fantastic volunteer work, but Stanly McStickinrearinson of the Senate or Col Beenthere Seenitall of the ANG may not see that. They're just going to see someone who looks sloppy and like they don't care. (That's the way the world works. Sorry if you don't like it...but that's reality.)

Unfortunately coming up with the guidance that's even more lenient on beards/no beards and hair length, 'professional appearance' and the like then becomes even more subjective.

I absolutely think we should have some service equivalent, preferably modular in design (like the service dress) that can be worn by all the members. I don't see the USAF renegging on the requirement for grooming standards with their uniforms (like existed in the 90s and before) because of the fear of the Billybobrayjoes, rather than the Mr. Sophisticated Epicbeards out there. However, I also don't think we should make an effort to abandon the USAF uniforms. And that leaves us in a quandry of trying to be as inclusive as possible while maintaining a professional image.

[Stonewall]

I really don't see what is wrong with the FAT and FUZZY when the corporate uniform is not a Military uniform. CAP made it up, CAP makes the rules?

It is not an AIR FORCE uniform, but it is a military type uniform.  When you add military rank (along with the title), military style badges, and military style ribbons, and then require military regulation haircuts (SarDragon's legitimate gripe), then yeah, it IS a military uniform.

IMHO, your argument that it's NOT a military uniform thus we should be able to do what we want, should be re-worded to state:  "It is NOT an AIR FORCE uniform, but it IS a CAP uniform that ALL CAP members wear, regardless of weight or grooming."  Use all the rank, ribbons, etc. you want, call it what you want (although it really is a military uniform, just not specifically an Air Force uniform) and call it a day.  Everyone in CAP uses the CSU, end of story.  Note:  I hate the way the CSU looks.

Words.

I agree 100% LGM...  Nicely put.

[FARRIER]

My issues with the CSU were the fact that it went so far above and beyond the service dress that it reeked of wannabeism. We can't wear hard rank on the service dress...but hey we can on this! Oooh silver sleeve braid? SHINY! Same thing with the white/blue uniform combination. Look look look! We're wearing AF Shoulder marks and you can't stop meeeeee! It just seemed childish.

Blue shoulder slides (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/RANK-OFC/index.html) - We wore those once and the hard rank on the service coat too.

Back when I was a cadet in the 1980's, my Squadron Commander, a retired AF Master Sergeant, was able to keep those Seniors in the Squadron, who chose to wear the Class A/B's, within the regulations. It's a matter of leadership, not wannabeism.

[SARDOC]

I agree with SARDRAGON.  The CSU should be brought back as long as everyone can wear it even the fuzzies...as long as the fuzzy is neat as required by regs.  Military uniforms throughout history have allowed beards,  there is no reason the CSU should be any different.

[LGM30GMCC]

My issues with the CSU were the fact that it went so far above and beyond the service dress that it reeked of wannabeism. We can't wear hard rank on the service dress...but hey we can on this! Oooh silver sleeve braid? SHINY! Same thing with the white/blue uniform combination. Look look look! We're wearing AF Shoulder marks and you can't stop meeeeee! It just seemed childish.

Blue shoulder slides (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/RANK-OFC/index.html) - We wore those once and the hard rank on the service coat too.

Back when I was a cadet in the 1980's, my Squadron Commander, a retired AF Master Sergeant, was able to keep those Seniors in the Squadron, who chose to wear the Class A/B's, within the regulations. It's a matter of leadership, not wannabeism.

The blue slides worn on the white shirt/blue pants combos were not those slides. They were these. The ones worn on the distinctive corporate uniform were identical to the ones worn by AD USAF officers. I think that's a problem when if you're wearing the blues you have to wear the grey sleeves. That's why I say it reeked of wannabeism. Well I can't do it (blue sleeves) in the blues...so I'll make a uniform where I can!! That's how it came across to me both as a CAP and USAF officer.

Again, it's the fact it was above and beyond what the current service dress allows. I would be happy as a clam if CAP went to either CAPs on the lapels and hard rank on the shoulders (less likely) or the blue CAP shoulder marks . I think that our Airman (speaking as a USAF Officer) should be able to read the CAP on the sleeve and figure it out. Were I CSAF for a couple years that's one of the things I would advocate for. However, along with it would be an expectation of the CAP/CC to ensure CAP officers BEHAVED like officers. That is to say, behaved as professionals.

So there's the piece I would bring back. Blue sleeves with the CAP on it, provided the training and standards were really held to enforce a culture of professionalism.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Those issues were addressed before the uniform was killed off, no?

[Devil Doc]

I undertand it is a united states military uniform. If you look at other countries that wear our stuff in there military, totally different story. I dont think i have a say as being a Shower Shoe in CAP, but i can tell ya, how hard is it to be distinctive from the AF?

[Майор Хаткевич]

The thing that rubs me raw the most is those who do not meet h/w, have the corp uniform, but insist on blues anyway, even after being corrected.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Since we were not given a reason as to why the CSU was cancelled, does anyone really think we will be given a reason as to why it cannot be brought back?

I disagree that metal rank/blue shoulder slides = "wannabe-ism."  We had them before, and they were taken from us for really bloody silly reasons; i.e., a urinating contest between a then-National CC, CSAF and SECAF.  CGAUX wears very slightly modified metal grade.  NSCC wears them unmodified, as do SDF's.  Border Patrol/CBP wears warrant officer brass, oak leaves, eagles and up unmodified.

Wearing "military-style" ribbons on the CSU ≠ "military ribbons."  Those were never allowed on the CSU.  It was CAP-only - just like the G/W.

Granted, the CSU could have been introduced a lot better; i.e., with a return to the blue shoulder marks with "CAP" on them (even requiring CAP cutouts to be pinned on the standard AF shoulder marks; many SDF's do that with the initials of their State), and just using "CAP" collar brass from the beginning, and not trying to have hard rank on flight caps.

Having said that, I thought the silver sleeve braid was a bit gaudy.

What many people forget, though, is that the Air Force requested changes, and they were acted upon by CAP!

I think the stupidest part of the whole affair (beyond not being given a reason why), was to require a switch to the grey shoulder marks on a uniform that was being phased out anyway!

As I have stated, the Air Force does not have a patent on all colours of blue.  However, a "new CSU" could easily use shades of blue that are clearly different from the USAF (in fact, not use ANY USAF uniform items), like the RAF (grey-blue), RAAF (midnight-blue) or Luftwaffe (blue-grey).

It is really academic, though, because I doubt National will ever let us have anything beyond the status quo.

[Private Investigator]

OD Jungle fatigues. Most comfortable field uniform ever.

I still have a CAP set too   

[Private Investigator]

I would love to see the Ike jacket brought back.

I found one with the classic USAF MSgt chevrons on it at a thrift shop. My wife pointed out I have way too many 'old' uniforms already.

[kd8gua]

- Black Mess Dress with the service cap.
- 1505 Summer Silvertans
- Shade 84 service coat and pants.

OD fatigues. The tuck in shirt version. Never had the chance to find some jungle fatigues, but I do enjoy my set of fatigues.

To me, those represent a golden age of USAF and CAP uniform history.

[tribalelder]

Now, if I could bring back my 1965 or 1983 circumference ...

Some of the now gone uniforms, like some current uniforms, don't look as good on those of us now at the upper limits of the ht/wt table.  A chubby guy in a smurfsuit or 1549's-- not the image we should like to project. Although I liked the smurfsuit

A double breasted suit (or the CSU)- not a good choice for those slightly overweight and beyond.

Our uniforms history is interesting.  How many of us around from the 'plainclothes' days (1969~1974?) of the owner-pilot specialist program ? Yes, there was an era when we recruited members who preferred not to be in uniform.  Anyone on the board enter CAP that way.

Following that, I think until sometime in early 90's, uniform was optional--unless flying or working with cadets. 

[kirbahashi]

The Smurf Suit and Maroon Epaulets!!!   

I jokingly state to my fellow seniors the only reason I became a senior was to wear that horrible uniform.  Not that I wanted to, but just because.

Actually in all seriousness, I liked the "pickle suits" and I miss them fondly.  With Jungle Fatigues a close second.

[Texas Raiders]

I'm a big fan of the WWII USAAF "pinks and greens".  They're still the official uniform of Texas A&M's Corps of Cadets.  Gig'em Aggies!

[Nikos]

Please keep in mind that I am the new guy here.  What is a CSU?

  I think the green fatigues with the tucked in shirt are a good uniform.  Also, the photos I have seen of the "silver tans" with blue tie and hats look really sharp.

[TJT__98]

CSU stands for Corporate Service Uniform. Here is the link to a picture
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Civil+Air+Patrol+CSU&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&tbo=d&rls=en&biw=1920&bih=960&tbm=isch&tbnid=LrCPN2dgVI2TaM:&imgrefurl=http://www.capmembers.com/cap_national_hq/member_services/uniform_information/new-corporate-uniform/&docid=xSc27TdWmnJf7M&imgurl=http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Corporate_Service_Coat_with_CAP_356B2C183EF48.jpg&w=415&h=520&ei=0M8fUZnNEY6c9QT-kIHoCA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:84&iact=rc&dur=266&sig=113558830980685141785&page=1&tbnh=177&tbnw=134&start=0&ndsp=19&tx=81&ty=17. Sorry, I don't know how to post a picture here.
I know from CAPTalk that everyone seems to either love it or hate it.