CAPP 52-24

[Eclipse]

"Senior staff are eligible to receive encampment credit upon providing 40 hours' service on-site."

Considering the work that has to take place before an encampment, I think some of the 40 could be off-site or prior. Although it looks like we get an online encampment application process (ICUT anyone), there is a lot of work available for senior members to cover in preparation.

The issue here is that until they upped the ante to the 30 hours required now, we had a lot of "ribbon shoppers" who would show up for an hour or two and expect encampment credit. 

I think the 30 hours is more reasonable, and it should be at the subjective approval of the commander, but KAY & SARAH.

Hour or two?     How'd that happen?

CAPR 52-16 currently says 80%.    How does an hour or two equal 80% at any encampment?

You're confusing cadet basic student credit with staff credit - they are not the same thing, nor do they have the same expectations.
Students are expected to complete at least 80% of the published curriculum, staff have no such fulfillment requirements - their "contact hours"
and performance are at the subjective appraisal of the encampment commander.

Prior to the current revision 52-16, there was no definition of the requirement for staff members, cadet or senior - the general assumption was
if you were signed into the encampment, you got a ribbon.  We had more than a few instructors and "day players" who received
ribbons during that period.

[Fubar]

A draft of CAPP-52-24 has been posted to the Cadet Proving Grounds. It's labeled as "Draft 20 August 2012" but I haven't had time to compare it to the document that was previously posted here.

There are also some interesting comments posted on the blog entry associated with posting the PDF:

http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/?encampment_guide_draft&show=entry&blogID=714

Good thing Eclipse doesn't believe in social media and avoids blogs. His head would explode if he saw what interesting regulation interpretation is going on out there at encampments.

[PA Guy]

From reading the comments I get the impression that more than a few encampments completely blow off the mandated curriculum in CAPR 52-16.  They continue to think that encampments get a pass on CAPR 52-16, 39-1 etc. and should be an exercise in sleep deprivation.

How can you have an Emergency Services encampment and still complete the current 40hr curriculum in 52-16 and give a cadet encampment credit for their Mitchell?

[NC Hokie]

How can you have an Emergency Services encampment and still complete the current 40hr curriculum in 52-16 and give a cadet encampment credit for their Mitchell?

One approach would be to run the ES encampment in parallel with the "regular" encampment. First time attenders go through the regular encampment to ensure that USAF expectations for Mitchell cadets are met, and repeat customers get to choose between the ES and regular encampment tracks.

[Eclipse]

How can you have an Emergency Services encampment and still complete the current 40hr curriculum in 52-16 and give a cadet encampment credit for their Mitchell?

One approach would be to run the ES encampment in parallel with the "regular" encampment. First time attenders go through the regular encampment to ensure that USAF expectations for Mitchell cadets are met, and repeat customers get to choose between the ES and regular encampment tracks.

I agree - however that would not necessarily confer a ribbon or encampment credit for anyone on the ES side.  It's just another activity
that is coincidentally sharing the same logistics.

[a2capt]

I agree - however that would not necessarily confer a ribbon or encampment credit for anyone on the ES side.  It's just another activity that is coincidentally sharing the same logistics.

..which is pretty much what they did in CAWG a couple years ago.

[tsrup]

From reading the comments I get the impression that more than a few encampments completely blow off the mandated curriculum in CAPR 52-16.  They continue to think that encampments get a pass on CAPR 52-16, 39-1 etc. and should be an exercise in sleep deprivation.

How can you have an Emergency Services encampment and still complete the current 40hr curriculum in 52-16 and give a cadet encampment credit for their Mitchell?

It's quite easy with the current requirements, and South Dakota/North Dakota have been doing them every other year, for years.

The key is while yes it is an "ES encampment", The ES curriculum augments the requirements in 52-16 rather than replaces it. 

Unlike a GSAR school or equivalent, ES is not all these cadets do all day, it probably amounts to one or two activities a day.

[Майор Хаткевич]

A draft of CAPP-52-24 has been posted to the Cadet Proving Grounds. It's labeled as "Draft 20 August 2012" but I haven't had time to compare it to the document that was previously posted here.

There are also some interesting comments posted on the blog entry associated with posting the PDF:

http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/?encampment_guide_draft&show=entry&blogID=714

Good thing Eclipse doesn't believe in social media and avoids blogs. His head would explode if he saw what interesting regulation interpretation is going on out there at encampments.

Sounds to me like the Whinny FMJ crew is all up in those comments. I should comment once I get to a PC.

[NC Hokie]

How can you have an Emergency Services encampment and still complete the current 40hr curriculum in 52-16 and give a cadet encampment credit for their Mitchell?

One approach would be to run the ES encampment in parallel with the "regular" encampment. First time attenders go through the regular encampment to ensure that USAF expectations for Mitchell cadets are met, and repeat customers get to choose between the ES and regular encampment tracks.

I agree - however that would not necessarily confer a ribbon or encampment credit for anyone on the ES side.  It's just another activity
that is coincidentally sharing the same logistics.

I can't see any reason why not, as the current draft of the encampment guide authorizes this arrangement in paragraph 1.2.h. for second-year cadets in "advanced training flights."

[Майор Хаткевич]

Advanced CP training...ES training is not even the spirit of what encampment is.

[NC Hokie]

Advanced CP training...ES training is not even the spirit of what encampment is.

That's the beauty of leaving "advanced training flights" undefined, as it lets each wing decide what to offer repeat cadets that are not chosen as (or interested in being on) staff.

[tsrup]

Advanced CP training...ES training is not even the spirit of what encampment is.

What is ES but another tool for Cadets to exercise leadership skills and decision making in a dynamic environment?

As long as it used as just another tool I see no problem implementing it into an encampment curriculum and have done it successfully on more than one occasion.

[Eclipse]

Advanced CP training...ES training is not even the spirit of what encampment is.

Exactly.   

Think RCLS or similar curriculum, not a Comm school, flight training, or First Aid class.

[NC Hokie]

Lost in all our our noise about ES training is that the journaling requirement has been all but eliminated from this edition of the draft encampment guide.

[Ned]

Lost in all our our noise about ES training is that the journaling requirement has been all but eliminated from this edition of the draft encampment guide.

You're welcome.

The Power of CAPTalk.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Advanced CP training...ES training is not even the spirit of what encampment is.

What is ES but another tool for Cadets to exercise leadership skills and decision making in a dynamic environment?

As long as it used as just another tool I see no problem implementing it into an encampment curriculum and have done it successfully on more than one occasion.

Leave that up to the SAREXs, NESAs, GSAR Schools, and Bivouacs.

Encampment should be about applying Cadet Program concepts and building on them. I would hardly say a SAREX or any of the above mentioned activities did much of that for me as a cadet.

You want an encampment ribbon? Then go as staff/basic/advanced training flight, etc. You want an ES event? No ribbon required, especially not the Encampment Ribbon.

[tsrup]

Advanced CP training...ES training is not even the spirit of what encampment is.

What is ES but another tool for Cadets to exercise leadership skills and decision making in a dynamic environment?

As long as it used as just another tool I see no problem implementing it into an encampment curriculum and have done it successfully on more than one occasion.

Leave that up to the SAREXs, NESAs, GSAR Schools, and Bivouacs.

Encampment should be about applying Cadet Program concepts and building on them. I would hardly say a SAREX or any of the above mentioned activities did much of that for me as a cadet.

You want an encampment ribbon? Then go as staff/basic/advanced training flight, etc. You want an ES event? No ribbon required, especially not the Encampment Ribbon.

It is possible to have an encampment with some ES instruction.

CAPR 52-16 is the framework, the requirements.  The requirements and the mission gets met, the only difference is wether you use a flat head screw or a phillips head to accomplish it. 


It is by no means a GTM factory.

[Майор Хаткевич]

ES exposure SHOULD be included in Encampment. But an "ES Encampment" Is not actually an encampment.

[PA Guy]

Unlike a GSAR school or equivalent, ES is not all these cadets do all day, it probably amounts to one or two activities a day.

How many hours in the training day do those one or two ES classes take?  In the training schedule how many hours are devoted to ES training over the course of the encampment?

[tsrup]

Over the course of encampment, ES training probably takes about 8-10 hours total.

This is a generous estimate of course, as I don't have any of the previous training schedules in front of me.