Epaulet Conversion Kit

[SarDragon]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

You mean Velcro?

All Velcro is hook and loop (hook and pile) tape. Not all hook and loop is Velcro.

[PHall]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

You mean Velcro?

All Velcro is hook and loop (hook and pile) tape. Not all hook and loop is Velcro.

Velcro is a brandname. Just like Xerox.

[Extremepredjudice]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

You mean Velcro?

All Velcro is hook and loop (hook and pile) tape. Not all hook and loop is Velcro.

Velcro is a brandname. Just like Xerox.

I know. I was just making sure we were on the same page.

[SarDragon]

I did notice the likely recognition of the trademark with the big 'V' in EP's post.  :clap:

[PHall]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

You mean Velcro?

All Velcro is hook and loop (hook and pile) tape. Not all hook and loop is Velcro.

Velcro is a brandname. Just like Xerox.

I know. I was just making sure we were on the same page.

I was clarifying your point.

[SarDragon]

FWIW, haven't we about beaten this horse enough?

[Abby.L]

FWIW, haven't we about beaten this horse enough?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

...and the McPeak uniform now has the distinction of being the rarest and highly sought uniform for collectors......

I think the main problem with it was that it was too plain and was cut (as is the current uni) like a business suit.

I only ever saw one officer wear it (a Ch/Capt).

It's not going away, of course...but I think there are better ways to "CAPise" it than just shoving grey epaulettes onto it.

[ColonelJack]

You had to be in the Air Force when all that was going on.

General McPeak was big on image and was doing his best to leave a permanent mark on the Air Force. He had been a Thunderbird and even promoted/expected everyone to follow his dietary regiment that included split pea soup for lunch. He went about pushing that uniform in the same way that a certain ex-national commander did his. Those who got the uniforms were part of a test group or were assigned to the Washington Military District and were purchasing the uniform as a means to show support with the Chief of Staff. So, most people were holding out until the very end of the phase in period before they would buy it. Otherwise, you were trapped if you got promoted or had to purchase sone new uniform item like a tie or a flight cap, because he engineered it that all existing uniform supplies were depleted to make way for the new uniform. As I remember, my experience with the new uniform started with the purchase of a new tie and flight cap. Then, $400 later, I was into a new set of dress blues.

It was depleting all the existing uniform supplies and having contractors re-tool to the new uniform is the reason why we have the current Air Force uniform. Within three to six hours after General Fogleman took command, a twix message was sent to the field advising that the new uniform was on hold. Some time later, a second message went into the field with detailed changes...much of which is still in place today.

...and the McPeak uniform now has the distinction of being the rarest and highly sought uniform for collectors......

WIWAD, the Tony Nelson jacket was all the rage!  (We'd just transitioned out of the 1505s, to give you an idea of when I speak.)

I didn't know all that about depleting uniform supplies, etc., or just how fast General Fogelman put a stop to the silliness. 

As for collectors ... while I don't have (and could never afford, at eBay rates anyway) one of the McPeak jackets, I do have one pair of major general's epaulet sleeves featuring his silver-along-the-side design.  Cool, I think.

Jack

[abdsp51]

Not a fan of the McPeak coat at all.  Hopefully the 4 pocket one they were testing is adopted, IMHO would look better than the Mitchell that was pitched especially with a black leather belt.

[lordmonar]

You had to be in the Air Force when all that was going on.

General McPeak was big on image and was doing his best to leave a permanent mark on the Air Force. He had been a Thunderbird and even promoted/expected everyone to follow his dietary regiment that included split pea soup for lunch. He went about pushing that uniform in the same way that a certain ex-national commander did his. Those who got the uniforms were part of a test group or were assigned to the Washington Military District and were purchasing the uniform as a means to show support with the Chief of Staff. So, most people were holding out until the very end of the phase in period before they would buy it. Otherwise, you were trapped if you got promoted or had to purchase sone new uniform item like a tie or a flight cap, because he engineered it that all existing uniform supplies were depleted to make way for the new uniform. As I remember, my experience with the new uniform started with the purchase of a new tie and flight cap. Then, $400 later, I was into a new set of dress blues.

It was depleting all the existing uniform supplies and having contractors re-tool to the new uniform is the reason why we have the current Air Force uniform. Within three to six hours after General Fogleman took command, a twix message was sent to the field advising that the new uniform was on hold. Some time later, a second message went into the field with detailed changes...much of which is still in place today.

...and the McPeak uniform now has the distinction of being the rarest and highly sought uniform for collectors......

WIWAD, the Tony Nelson jacket was all the rage!  (We'd just transitioned out of the 1505s, to give you an idea of when I speak.)

I didn't know all that about depleting uniform supplies, etc., or just how fast General Fogelman put a stop to the silliness. 

As for collectors ... while I don't have (and could never afford, at eBay rates anyway) one of the McPeak jackets, I do have one pair of major general's epaulet sleeves featuring his silver-along-the-side design.  Cool, I think.

Jack

??  The Mc Peak jacket is the same jacket enlisted guys wear today....with the addition of the silver rank bands (ala US Navy).
No name tag, no U.S. cut outs....just ribbons.

[flyboy53]

You had to be in the Air Force when all that was going on.

General McPeak was big on image and was doing his best to leave a permanent mark on the Air Force. He had been a Thunderbird and even promoted/expected everyone to follow his dietary regiment that included split pea soup for lunch. He went about pushing that uniform in the same way that a certain ex-national commander did his. Those who got the uniforms were part of a test group or were assigned to the Washington Military District and were purchasing the uniform as a means to show support with the Chief of Staff. So, most people were holding out until the very end of the phase in period before they would buy it. Otherwise, you were trapped if you got promoted or had to purchase sone new uniform item like a tie or a flight cap, because he engineered it that all existing uniform supplies were depleted to make way for the new uniform. As I remember, my experience with the new uniform started with the purchase of a new tie and flight cap. Then, $400 later, I was into a new set of dress blues.

It was depleting all the existing uniform supplies and having contractors re-tool to the new uniform is the reason why we have the current Air Force uniform. Within three to six hours after General Fogleman took command, a twix message was sent to the field advising that the new uniform was on hold. Some time later, a second message went into the field with detailed changes...much of which is still in place today.

...and the McPeak uniform now has the distinction of being the rarest and highly sought uniform for collectors......

WIWAD, the Tony Nelson jacket was all the rage!  (We'd just transitioned out of the 1505s, to give you an idea of when I speak.)

I didn't know all that about depleting uniform supplies, etc., or just how fast General Fogelman put a stop to the silliness. 

As for collectors ... while I don't have (and could never afford, at eBay rates anyway) one of the McPeak jackets, I do have one pair of major general's epaulet sleeves featuring his silver-along-the-side design.  Cool, I think.

Jack

??  The Mc Peak jacket is the same jacket enlisted guys wear today....with the addition of the silver rank bands (ala US Navy).
No name tag, no U.S. cut outs....just ribbons.

Yes, and officers went back to metal shoulder rank, epaulettes, ALL ribbons, and US collar insignia was restored (which is why CAP wears it now, too)...and so, this whole issue about the conversion kits. General Fogleman's logic at the time was that the Air Force didn't need another new uniform. As I remember, I was getting tired of it, too. When I joined the Air Force, it was the last year of 1505s, we went to short sleved shirts without epaulettes, then with them and even blues went through two different uniform shades. I went through two different types of windbreakers and even wore my beloved dark blue shirt with military creases on the final day of it's authorization. I went from a black mess dress to midnight blue and my last dress uniform was a synthetic doubleknit that snagged everytime you walked near anything or attached uniform insignia. I still have that one.

I think the thing that bugged me the most was my Security Police functional badge. Mine were issued, were silver-filled, and the organization I was in at the time required everything highly polished or chromed. I had to search for ones of the same standard.

By the way, I thought the heritage test uniforms were nixed because of budge issues and nobody could agree on which one.

If you want to read more about what happened during that period, follow this link:

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/2009/January%202009/0109uniform.pdf

[Grumpy]

You had to be in the Air Force when all that was going on.

General McPeak was big on image and was doing his best to leave a permanent mark on the Air Force. He had been a Thunderbird and even promoted/expected everyone to follow his dietary regiment that included split pea soup for lunch. He went about pushing that uniform in the same way that a certain ex-national commander did his. Those who got the uniforms were part of a test group or were assigned to the Washington Military District and were purchasing the uniform as a means to show support with the Chief of Staff. So, most people were holding out until the very end of the phase in period before they would buy it. Otherwise, you were trapped if you got promoted or had to purchase sone new uniform item like a tie or a flight cap, because he engineered it that all existing uniform supplies were depleted to make way for the new uniform. As I remember, my experience with the new uniform started with the purchase of a new tie and flight cap. Then, $400 later, I was into a new set of dress blues.

It was depleting all the existing uniform supplies and having contractors re-tool to the new uniform is the reason why we have the current Air Force uniform. Within three to six hours after General Fogleman took command, a twix message was sent to the field advising that the new uniform was on hold. Some time later, a second message went into the field with detailed changes...much of which is still in place today.

...and the McPeak uniform now has the distinction of being the rarest and highly sought uniform for collectors......

WIWAD, the Tony Nelson jacket was all the rage!  (We'd just transitioned out of the 1505s, to give you an idea of when I speak.)

I didn't know all that about depleting uniform supplies, etc., or just how fast General Fogelman put a stop to the silliness. 

As for collectors ... while I don't have (and could never afford, at eBay rates anyway) one of the McPeak jackets, I do have one pair of major general's epaulet sleeves featuring his silver-along-the-side design.  Cool, I think.

Jack

??  The Mc Peak jacket is the same jacket enlisted guys wear today....with the addition of the silver rank bands (ala US Navy).
No name tag, no U.S. cut outs....just ribbons.

Yes, and officers went back to metal shoulder rank, epaulettes, ALL ribbons, and US collar insignia was restored (which is why CAP wears it now, too)...and so, this whole issue about the conversion kits. General Fogleman's logic at the time was that the Air Force didn't need another new uniform. As I remember, I was getting tired of it, too. When I joined the Air Force, it was the last year of 1505s, we went to short sleved shirts without epaulettes, then with them and even blues went through two different uniform shades. I went through two different types of windbreakers and even wore my beloved dark blue shirt with military creases on the final day of it's authorization. I went from a black mess dress to midnight blue and my last dress uniform was a synthetic doubleknit that snagged everytime you walked near anything or attached uniform insignia. I still have that one.

I think the thing that bugged me the most was my Security Police functional badge. Mine were issued, were silver-filled, and the organization I was in at the time required everything highly polished or chromed. I had to search for ones of the same standard.

By the way, I thought the heritage test uniforms were nixed because of budge issues and nobody could agree on which one.

If you want to read more about what happened during that period, follow this link:

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/2009/January%202009/0109uniform.pdf

Do you remember the white mess dress?  I do.

[MSG Mac]

[/quote]
Do you remember the white mess dress?  I do.
[/quote]

Yes, White for summer, Black for winter. I also remember the Fogelman White Dress Uniform, which was required of all Senior Officers. I think that was the last straw that led to his being asked to step down early.

[flyboy53]

/quote]
Do you remember the white mess dress?  I do.

Yes, White for summer, Black for winter. I also remember the Fogelman White Dress Uniform, which was required of all Senior Officers. I think that was the last straw that led to his being asked to step down early.
[/quote]]

If you're talking about the white mess dress, yes, I had one as a tech sergeant, but mine came from the thrift shop at Grissom AFB.

The white informal ceremonial uniform wasn't Fogleman or McPeak. That uniform had been around since before 1959. The reason why it wasn't common was because it was only required for general officers and optional for everyone else. If I remember correctly, the final phase out date for that one was 1993.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Is this what you mean...and did CAP ever wear this?

Back on first topic thread deviation (epaulette conversion to piston rings/JROTC shoulder marks)  , I've used the example of the Irish Air Corps before but I think something like what they have (as long as some dim bulb doesn't demand that it be grey! ) would be quite distinctive for us, and still look aviation-related!

[MSG Mac]

Is this what you mean...and did CAP ever wear this?

Back on first topic thread deviation (epaulette conversion to piston rings/JROTC shoulder marks)  , I've used the example of the Irish Air Corps before but I think something like what they have (as long as some dim bulb doesn't demand that it be grey! ) would be quite distinctive for us, and still look aviation-related!

Yes we did with modified shoulder boards and a CAP breastplate where the second buttons were. Black were for winter,white for summer.

[Major Carrales]

Tack on some Hook and loop tape.

You mean Velcro?

All Velcro is hook and loop (hook and pile) tape. Not all hook and loop is Velcro.

Velcro is a brandname. Just like Xerox.

So what?  We live in colloquial times...no one (and I mean know one) teaches anyone that.  A soda water is a "Coke," a facial tissue is a "Kleenex" and a bandage is a "Band Aide."  And to prove my point, the spell check on Google Chrome agrees.  lol

[cap235629]

Is this what you mean...and did CAP ever wear this?

Back on first topic thread deviation (epaulette conversion to piston rings/JROTC shoulder marks)  , I've used the example of the Irish Air Corps before but I think something like what they have (as long as some dim bulb doesn't demand that it be grey! ) would be quite distinctive for us, and still look aviation-related!

Seeing as CAP is at least 400% larger than the Irish Air Corps, WHY??

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^I wasn't saying import IAC uniforms/insignia lock, stock and barrel.

My own opinion is that they look sharp, they look like they belong to aviators, and it would at least give some colour to a CAP-distinctive uniform.

It would be a starting point.