What can I do in CAP Comms?

[MilesDyson]

OK, let me get this straight. If I were a private pilot up flying around in my own plane and hear an ELT, I tell ATC and then ignore it further? I don't think so. If I have the ability I will go see if I can get a better bearing on it, provided ATC agrees with my intentions.

You do what you want as long as you're not breaking any airspace or TFR rules, not using a "rescue" callsign, and not telling ATC you're Civil Air Patrol. Just realize that you're doing so on your own, and not as a CAP member.

But, if I am in the same situation in CAP, I am supposed to report it to ATC and then not do anything further. Why?

Because CAP aircraft are for official business only, and until a mission is assigned to CAP, the hunting of that ELT is not official business, and you have no business hunting down ELTs with an aircraft that isn't yours (you don't own that plane, the taxpayers do...yada yada). No further reason should be needed.

The "no self deploy" argument is totally bogus.

maybe CAP isn't for you as a pilot either

Agreed. At least not without a check on the attitude.

Please cite the regulations. I just scanned 60-1 and 60-3 again and didn't see that.

CAP aircraft are for official use only. Yes, I was on a B17 proficiency flight. So yes, I was using a CAP callsign, but not rescue. So, what, I hear the ELT, report it to ATC and then I can fly in any direction I want, but not towards the ELT?

A very puzzled and frustrated CAP member tonight I am.

[MilesDyson]

Self-deploying can cause major problems with resources and safety. I actually just took FEMA's ICS-100 last night and they gave the example of private ambulance companies self-deploying on 9/11 and blocking officially deployed ambulances from getting through, just making the whole situation worse.

There probably wasn't another airplane within a 20 mile radius at the time. In fact, there was no other CAP plane aloft in the state.

[CAP4117]

I'm not saying that applied to your situation, but that's an example of how self-deploying can put the fundamental objectives at risk. There are many aspects to an incident that you may not be aware of when you self-deploy, and that only complicates the overall response.

[cap235629]

so now you expect a ground team to be on the ground, with the radio on anytime a CAP plane is in the air?  In order to have the privilege of flying a CAP aircraft you agree to abide by the rules.  The rules say you report but DO NOT prosecute the ELT.  What is so hard about this?

What I think you are is arrogant.  You feel you know more about everything than anyone else and feel they are ignorant if they don't do things the way you "know" they should be done.

How long have you been part of the program?

[MilesDyson]

so now you expect a ground team to be on the ground, with the radio on anytime a CAP plane is in the air?  In order to have the privilege of flying a CAP aircraft you agree to abide by the rules.  The rules say you report but DO NOT prosecute the ELT.  What is so hard about this?

What I think you are is arrogant.  You feel you know more about everything than anyone else and feel they are ignorant if they don't do things the way you "know" they should be done.

How long have you been part of the program?

Please cite the regulation. I follow all CAP regs to the letter. Always have.

[Eclipse]

CAP aircraft are for official use only. Yes, I was on a B17 proficiency flight. So yes, I was using a CAP callsign, but not rescue. So, what, I hear the ELT, report it to ATC and then I can fly in any direction I want, but not towards the ELT?

You were on a "CAP callsign" because you were in a CAP plane, not on a CAP mission.

Until and unless you were assigned by a competent authority, with a proper qualified aircrew, you were simply the same as every other GA bus driver burning dinosaurs.  I suppose if you decided to go and fly around something you heard, whatever, your nickel, but you can't start prosecuting a search, or lighting up other assets without authorization.

Are you are qualified mission pilot with a current 91?  If not, you wouldn't even be allowed on the mission you are starting.  And if you are, then you should know the answers to these questions.

[MilesDyson]

so now you expect a ground team to be on the ground, with the radio on anytime a CAP plane is in the air?  In order to have the privilege of flying a CAP aircraft you agree to abide by the rules.  The rules say you report but DO NOT prosecute the ELT.  What is so hard about this?

What I think you are is arrogant.  You feel you know more about everything than anyone else and feel they are ignorant if they don't do things the way you "know" they should be done.

How long have you been part of the program?

What I was HOPING for was a situation where we have CAP member who in the course of their day-to-day lives happen to have their radios on in their cars, in their homes, in case an emergency happened and someone needed to communicate. What is the point of having a CAP radio system that is only monitored if there is a mission going?

[MilesDyson]

CAP aircraft are for official use only. Yes, I was on a B17 proficiency flight. So yes, I was using a CAP callsign, but not rescue. So, what, I hear the ELT, report it to ATC and then I can fly in any direction I want, but not towards the ELT?

You were on a "CAP callsign" because you were in a CAP plane, not on a CAP mission.

Until and unless you were assigned by a competent authority, with a proper qualified aircrew, you were simply the same as every other GA bus driver burning dinosaurs.  I suppose if you decided to go and fly around something you heard, whatever, your nickel, but you can't start prosecuting a search, or lighting up other assets without authorization.

Are you are qualified mission pilot with a current 91?  If not, you wouldn't even be allowed on the mission you are starting.  And if you are, then you should know the answers to these questions.

Again, please cite the "no self deploy" regulation. Really, if I missed it I want to fix that here and now. And show how simply remaining in the air circling on a B17 flight while trying to DF the signal from my current location is a violation of that regulation. Really, I want to know.

[cap235629]

all wing commanders were instructed by NHQ as to what should be done when a signal is heard.  They in turn issued policy letters.  If you tell me your real name and what wing you are in I can provide you with further guidance.  There is not a Miles Dyson in CAP according to the records at NHQ.

[Eclipse]

What I was HOPING for was a situation where we have CAP member who in the course of their day-to-day lives happen to have their radios on in their cars, in their homes, in case an emergency happened and someone needed to communicate. What is the point of having a CAP radio system that is only monitored if there is a mission going?

Again, a fundamental misunderstanding of CAP's role and mission.

CAP is not a roving, ad-hoc, first-responder organization.  We are professionalized secondary and tertiary support organization with a very specific process and procedure to our response, which generally includes vetting by the USAF (who pays most of the bills).

If you come upon an emergency in the course of your normal life, you pick up your cell phone and dial 9-1-1. Period.

Your second misunderstanding is that CAP has a radio "system".  It does not, and is not charged with that mission.  What we have are specific
resources in place for use in specific circumstances, and those circumstances do not include emergency first response.

There may well have been a time that CAP was, or at least believed itself to be, charged with providing a national-level backup communications system.
That day is well past, and while it may come again at some point, it won't be tomorrow.

If you are carrying a CAP radio around and expecting to be able to use it 24x7 to dispatch tow trucks and ambulances, one has to wonder
what comm classes you attended, and where you got your CAP operator's license.

Again, please cite the "no self deploy" regulation.

If you really are a CAP pilot and communicator with 5 years in, that question is so ridiculous as to not deserve a response.

[cap235629]

so now you expect a ground team to be on the ground, with the radio on anytime a CAP plane is in the air?  In order to have the privilege of flying a CAP aircraft you agree to abide by the rules.  The rules say you report but DO NOT prosecute the ELT.  What is so hard about this?

What I think you are is arrogant.  You feel you know more about everything than anyone else and feel they are ignorant if they don't do things the way you "know" they should be done.

How long have you been part of the program?

What I was HOPING for was a situation where we have CAP member who in the course of their day-to-day lives happen to have their radios on in their cars, in their homes, in case an emergency happened and someone needed to communicate. What is the point of having a CAP radio system that is only monitored if there is a mission going?

Once again you fail to grasp what the radios are for.  We do not drive around with radios on like a HAM does.  The radios are for the support of our missions.  The purpose is to support missions AS TASKED, not drive around self deploying.

[Eclipse]

Bill - Miles Dyson is the guy credited with creating Skynet.

[N Harmon]

Again, please cite the "no self deploy" regulation. Really, if I missed it I want to fix that here and now. And show how simply remaining in the air circling on a B17 flight while trying to DF the signal from my current location is a violation of that regulation. Really, I want to know.

CAPR 60-3 1-16(d)(3):
Aircrews will not self-dispatch; they must be properly released, even remotely via
phone or other means if necessary, and noted appropriately on a CAPF 104, Mission Flight
Plan/Briefing Form; 107, Flight Operations Log; and other mission documents, as appropriate.
Signatures are not required on the CAPF 104, but the CAPF 104 must note who briefed and
released the crew accordingly.

Being released on a B17 is not a proper release for a SAR mission.

[cap235629]

Bill - Miles Dyson is the guy credited with creating Skynet.

Hence the give me your real name part of my comment.  I guess I missed the Terminator reference.

[wuzafuzz]

What I was HOPING for was a situation where we have CAP member who in the course of their day-to-day lives happen to have their radios on in their cars, in their homes, in case an emergency happened and someone needed to communicate.

Good Lord, people have LIVES!  I am very active in CAP Comm, but I go to work, attend meetings, go to the doctor, and even sleep once in a while.  I listen to the radio a lot but since CAP doesn't pay us to do so there will be gaps.

What is the point of having a CAP radio system that is only monitored if there is a mission going?

Oh I don't know...maybe to SUPPORT CAP MISSIONS?  Just a wild guess here.      The system is not intended for rag chewing when there is no mission or activity.  It is stood up as needed, and many of us come running when there is a need.

This should all be pretty obvious to an experienced member.  Spare us the adult hissy fit and TRY to ask some reasonable questions.  Until then...I'm out.

[MilesDyson]

Again, please cite the "no self deploy" regulation. Really, if I missed it I want to fix that here and now. And show how simply remaining in the air circling on a B17 flight while trying to DF the signal from my current location is a violation of that regulation. Really, I want to know.

CAPR 60-3 1-16(d)(3):
Aircrews will not self-dispatch; they must be properly released, even remotely via
phone or other means if necessary, and noted appropriately on a CAPF 104, Mission Flight
Plan/Briefing Form; 107, Flight Operations Log; and other mission documents, as appropriate.
Signatures are not required on the CAPF 104, but the CAPF 104 must note who briefed and
released the crew accordingly.

Still, pilot flying solo in a CAP plane hears an ELT. He informs ATC. Now what?

Being released on a B17 is not a proper release for a SAR mission.

Thank you. I am looking that up now.

[Eclipse]

"B17" is a mission symbol, not a mission number, the difference is not a nuance.

[N Harmon]

"B17" is a mission symbol, not a mission number, the difference is not a nuance.

Right, the biggest difference being missions like B17s are approved by CAP-USAF whereas SAR missions are approved by AFRCC/JRCC.

[MilesDyson]

OK. Pilot is in the air and hears an ELT. He follows orders and reports it to ATC and then continues on his way cross country 200 miles away from the ELT's actual location. ATC contacts AFRCC and in due course, AFRCC assigns a mission to hunt the ELT. An IC is assigned and begins the task of organizing a search. Hours go by and aircrews are dispatched. After some more hours, the ELT is located in the smoldering wreck of an airplane. The occupants are barely alive still, but die upon arrival at the hospital. It turns out that the location of the wreckage is almost directly below where the first pilot had heard the signal. The news media check into the story and find out the details of the incident from FlightAware or other sources, and then begin asking, "Why didn't the first CAP plane try and get a better fix on the signal before leaving the area? Might these people still be alive if the CAP plane had done it's job?"

I guess that's why we have PAOs...

[MilesDyson]

Again, please cite the "no self deploy" regulation. Really, if I missed it I want to fix that here and now. And show how simply remaining in the air circling on a B17 flight while trying to DF the signal from my current location is a violation of that regulation. Really, I want to know.

CAPR 60-3 1-16(d)(3):
Aircrews will not self-dispatch; they must be properly released, even remotely via
phone or other means if necessary, and noted appropriately on a CAPF 104, Mission Flight
Plan/Briefing Form; 107, Flight Operations Log; and other mission documents, as appropriate.
Signatures are not required on the CAPF 104, but the CAPF 104 must note who briefed and
released the crew accordingly.

Still, pilot flying solo in a CAP plane hears an ELT. He informs ATC. Now what?

Being released on a B17 is not a proper release for a SAR mission.

Thank you. I am looking that up now.

And I don't think it is clear from this section (which is talking about how to conduct a mission) that trying to get a bearing on an ELT while reporting it is a violation.