The Great California CAP Email Debacle of 2011

[♠SARKID♠]

I recently had to sift through a similar situation for a separate email list I'm on.  For three days I had a torrent of "please remove me" emails flooding through my inbox.  It was the result of putting the email list in the "to" field, and not the "bcc" field.  Had the latter been done, all replies would have gone to the admin and not EVERYBODY.  I eventually had to set up a filter in gmail to only accept emails from the admin.

Some people need to be neutered for the safety of the human race.

[a2capt]

Some people need to be neutered for the safety of the human race.

Thats kinda funny ... how email seems to bring that thought out. Two people suggest something along the same lines in their tirades cc'ed to the list, too.

Or is this kind of stuff more commonplace than I thought, and most people would just brush it off?

It's pretty much all you can do. Anything else will give you heartburn. Just shake your head and laugh, because fretting and getting angry over it still won't fix it. This whole thing has been broken for many years. Though this is kinda the worse it's been.


Heck, the web sites run on the same box, it must not have been a hardware failure. IIS still kept on going.

[JC004]

I don't understand.  They can't set up, in CAWG of all places, a proper e-mail list instead of mass-mailing?  There shouldn't BE a "reply to all" ability there to WORRY ABOUT.  Now people will report it as spam, the domain and/or e-mail addresses will get blacklisted, and there will be all sorts of issues stemming from that.  This is so freaking silly that I am totally at a loss on anything else to say of it other than - set up a proper list giving the necessary people proper permissions, make sure it'll be whitelisted, subscribe all the members and allow them the opportunity to unsubscribe if they want (that's the law, no?).  Set up a SEPARATE list for emergency notifications like major missions or VERY VERY important announcements, have everyone on that, and ONLY use it in emergencies.   

[Bluelakes 13]

As has been said, the solution is really simple, a fixed reply-to back to the IT dude.

[vento]

So a little tiny bit more research shows me that there is indeed a second server running now. Perhaps when this "mess" is settled down, it may be worthwhile to ask to have the site moved to the one running on Linux.

I really do wish I had taken up that offer to be Wing IT before ITO existed.. Might not have lasted this long, but .. this stuff isn't rocket science.

More power to you Sir. I too wish you had taken the role of Wing IT. Two years ago I was tasked to work on our squadron website and therefore I asked Wing about MySQL and PHP and was told that my only option was HTML. I then went through every website that had cawg.cap.gov address and found quite a few that were clearly made with PHP CMS and when I asked I was told that I was wrong. 

[FalconFour]

Wait, what?? Seriously? "Hey, what's up with these sites, they're using PHP!", "No they're not, pay no attention to the man behind the email curtain!"... that's pretty messed up.

And here I am whining about it just taking too long to set up PHP... you guys were told it wasn't even there?!

[a2capt]

Thats the other irony of this whole thing. The email list *is* setup correctly. Default Reply-To is to the sender, not the list. People are going out of their way to do that all thing, just because they are used to getting no response from the black hole.

Oh, yes- I did that, too. ..and a little more digging showed me that they were using API's on external sites. I hadn't found any actual evidence of PHP being run from the IIS server, and only recently did I figure out there's actually two. So, the trick is to be asked to be migrated to the other machine.

Seems they nuked all the email accounts, too, as I'm not getting any CAP related mail that was all routed via cawg.cap.gov ...

I'm sure they just told people it wasn't there because it was easier than saying "I can' t get it to work"..

In the end, I just used a commercial provider and alternate domain so I could move the site to something modern, and figured I'd move it back when they get their act together, or when someone else becomes ITO, even if in pipedream city, it was myself.. 

[vento]

Very sad.
This thread had unintentionally become a CAWG dirty laundry list (and I've contributed to the dirty laundry  ). Anyway, hopefully we can all learn a thing or two from it.

[a2capt]

It was a pressure cooker waiting to be released. While I'm sure an enormous amount of work was put into it, mass adding everyone off eServices was just bound to backfire. 

Didn't want to deal with mega amounts of requests, and not having an automated system to do it..  Though, what I would have done in the same situation is:

Using mailman, using the addresses from eServices, and the invite function- that way I know I'm sending out invites that are based on vetted information, and with the writeup saying that the mail server is back in operation, that it had been out of operation and if you would like to receive anything more past this point, click on the confirm link below. Even if you wish to use an alternate email address, click on the confirm link and then change your subscribed email address, the confirmation reply will contain your list password and instructions on how to change your subscriber options.

Again, if you do NOT wish to receive communications from CAWG, simply do nothing. This message will self destruct in 30 seconds. ...  (you get the idea)

Additionally, in the footer of each message I would include a "You are subscribed to all-wing, CAWG email, if you wish to un-subscribe ... click here. (link)." To make changes to your subscription, "click here" (link to login)..

Then that way, the bulk of the work is done, automated, etc. Whatever system of matching for dropping members who let their membership lapse can be done behind the scenes, if someone needs to get back on, or when new members show up, they can simply submit their CAPID, list(s) selection(s), and target email address as always, and they'll be added.

No heartburn, no need to gene pool threats, or other ludicrous responses. Those that do, just drop 'em, and let 'em stay off for a while. Mail list managers have a ban function. Use it.

[Major Lord]

I think many of the people demanding to be removed from the list are people who think that everyone knows about there particular gripe with CAP (of the moment) and take the opportunity to use the ALL list as sort of a public resignation in lieu of seppuku. Anyone who has been on the list for more than a few days ought to know that this is not how to go about getting off the list, and they are under the impression that we give a rodents-hindquarters about their "resignation" from the list. As silly E-mails go, these are right up there with the "Deputy Assistant Leadership Officer out of State" postings. There is not much really wrong with our IT system, but as the hardware techs say on their repair forms under "cause of problem" : "Loose nut behind keyboard"

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

"Deputy Assistant Leadership Officer out of State" postings.

One of my personal favorites. 

It's a toss-up which is more amusing / indicative of the person - that they don't understand who the important "on call" people are in the wing, or
that they aren't capable of being in-touch when they go on vacation, etc.

I was on the road about 5 months last year, and most people were unaware I was anywhere but "in town".

[JC004]

...
I was on the road about 5 months last year, and most people were unaware I was anywhere but "in town".

That's the way it should be.  Automating as much as possible too.  Automation and filtering are key to accomplishing victory over the clutter.

I'm hearing this stuff about PHP, domains, and all here.  It's bringing back some memories of the confusion and mess with the lack of guidance, outdated guidance, word-of-mouth junk, and the like.

So on a related note, I asked Colonel Weiss as part of the Q&A thing that's coming out on his site about addressing the outdated guidance and all.  I'm eager to see if this will be seen as important to address and how he thinks we should go about it if he is elected. 

I believe that the Questions and Answers are coming out tomorrow for us to browse, follow up on and whatever.  I guess we can chat about them here on CAPTalk too.  I'm very interested in the tech pieces.  He has said that if elected, he wants to flip his website into an input engine.

When I was ITO-ing for the wing, there was SO much confusion and ALL THE WAY UP to NHQ because I called/wrote NHQ for help on the limited, confusing guidance that DOES exist.  Long story short, they said - "we dunno.  It needs to be updated."

[RRLE]

that they aren't capable of being in-touch when they go on vacation, etc.

Some people have this quaint old notion that vacations are a time to 'get away from it all', 'recharge the batteries' and that is incompatible with being 'in-touch'. Another set believe that there is no real need to be available 24/7 and that getting away for a few hours to days at a time is healthy. Silly people.

[Eclipse]

that they aren't capable of being in-touch when they go on vacation, etc.

Some people have this quaint old notion that vacations are a time to 'get away from it all', 'recharge the batteries' and that is incompatible with being 'in-touch'. Another set believe that there is no real need to be available 24/7 and that getting away for a few hours to days at a time is healthy. Silly people.

Which is fine, I suppose, but if you can really do that in this day and age it means you are likely not on the list as "critical" like a Wing CC or duty officer,
in which case nothing you are asked about can't wait until you get back, or better still be automatically delegated to your assistant or deputy.

I don't even like "out of office" replies for the same reason.

Critical staff should be delegating transparently, non-critical don't need to tell anyone.

Besides, we don't live in a world that allows people to "get away", it moves on, with or without you, 24x7, because that is simply "the way it is".  A lot of people, myself included, can't relax knowing there is a pile of stuff waiting for them when they get back to their desk.  It's much better to practice good time management and task management, keep an eye on things while you're away, and know what needs to get done with those fresh batteries.

[RRLE]

A lot of people, myself included, can't relax knowing there is a pile of stuff waiting for them when they get back to their desk.

And a lot of us can. It can take a while but you have to learn how to turn off 'work mode'. If you don't you aren't really relaxing.

It's much better to practice good time management and task management, keep an eye on things while you're away

What you are describing is work - work is incompatible with vacation.

A very good friend of mine lost his wife, also a very good friend of mine, to breast cancer about 3 years ago. She was in her early 50s. He and had a chat about this topic after she died.  He repeated a truism, he said 'no one on their death beds wishes they had worked harder or spent more time at the office.' It made me rethink a lot of priorities. Then my wife got breast cancer. So far she is beating it. But when I am not at work - I am not at work. The cell gets turned off, I will not check office email etc. I don't know how much time I will have with her but work is not going to interfere with how ever much or little is left. The only thing I want  to keep my eye on when I am away is her. Work can wait. It will be there when you get back. If it is critical someone will handle it. Remember no one is indispensable.

Remember to stop and smell the roses.

[N Harmon]

Now THAT'S the funny thing. Preferential treatment? Take a look what these guys have on their site: http://sq14.cawg.cap.gov/ - is that... could it... no, is... YES! It's PHP!

And it's also not IIS:

So why don't you host your website somewhere else? Just repoint your DNS to the new host.

http://ns1.cap.gov/