The Great California CAP Email Debacle of 2011

Started by FalconFour, July 05, 2011, 05:53:05 PM

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FalconFour

I think this warrants a thread, just to serve at least as a record of this momentous trainwreck of a distribution list debacle.

So, here's the rundown of the sequence of events thus far (names removed just in a small attempt to preserve their remaining dignity):

IT guy sends out an email to "all" saying:
QuoteTo all CAWG Members
Distribution list services have been restored and I am currently in the process of updating all the various distribution lists.

I have automated the list publishing regarding the general distribution list at this time.  I am extracting the primary and secondary email address information from your e-services account.  Please ensure these are correct and kept up to date. This will be
performed on a regular basis to ensure new members are uploaded and to catch changes in your email addresses

If you do not want to be on the general distribution list (*Clickable link to ALL list email address*), then remove your email addresses from e-services.  This action will also result in the removal of your email address from your unit and group distribution lists.

The extraction process will also be done for the alerting system and anyone who wants to have their cell phone, smart phone, pager, etc... be part of the alerting list, please ensure that the device email address is added in the ALPHA PAGER field in e-
services.

If you have any questions, please let me know and please DO NOT HIT REPLY ALL to this message.

Regards
(Anon.)

Simple enough, I didn't think much of it myself. I got the message on both my email accounts, everything's working fine, I want to stay on the list, bleh, standard procedure as usual.

Then, a couple hours later, I get this odd email addressed to "all"...
QuoteTo: "all" <all>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (7D11)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 17:37:40 -0700
Subject: Email removal request
From: *****@clearwire.net

Please remove the above email address from all CAP related announcements.

*thinking to myself* "... umm, I hope about a thousand people just smacked this guy upside the head..."
Maybe so, but about half an hour later... another similar message, "Remove from e-mail list" with that as both the subject and the message (how quaint...).

Then, slowly but surely, all hell breaks loose...


A couple choice emails for amusement:
QuoteDate: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 09:38:03 -0700
To: all
Subject: Please Remove
From: B**** Z**** <**uuuuu***@gmail.com>

Please remove my email from the list.

--
() ()
(o.o)
(>/\<)o

THIS IS BUNNY
HELP HIM FINISH HIS CARROT AND DOMINATE THE WORLD BY COPYING THIS TO YOUR SIGNATURE...!!! (created by Frost)

QuoteDate: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT)
To: e*****@sbcglobal.net, all
X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004
Subject: Re: Removal
From: R*********@aol.com

Please remove me from the ALNOT distribution list.
Thanks

In a message dated 7/5/2011 9:37:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, e*****@sbcglobal.net writes:

Please remove me from all list. As I am recieving notices on accounts  that
have been use before, I have included all poss accounts to be  removed
from. Sorry for the  'extras'.
E*****@sbcglobal.net
E****##@gmail.com
Again, please  remove me from all list on both my accounts. Thank you, SM H*** ######

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

And my personal favorite...

QuoteDate: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 17:12:58 +0000
To: B****** S****** <b******@s******.com>, all
Subject: Re: REMOVE
From: "W. H. *******" <k#***@socal.rr.com>

Nice move, old son. You have just broadcast this to the entire wing -- including those of us who cannot and care not a royal rat's ass whether you can get unsubscribed or not.

---- B****** S****** <b******@s******.com> wrote:
Please remove my email from ALL CAWG emails - you folks need to do a better job of managing email.  All the reply alls are friggen disaster of a clusterflub.  Nice job!

I've gotta wonder what the thought process is that would make anyone think that they should be using any email address titled "All" to send a removal request!

And on the flip side of things, I also just have to wonder why the IT guys left "All" open to all members... I can sort of understand it for emergency reasons, but... well, I guess they never expected people to be dim enough to abuse it in such a mind-bogglingly massive way...

SO! What of it, any similar stories? Thoughts and LOLs? I wonder how much longer this will go on for...  :clap:

edit: Hmm, I didn't really edit anything, trying to figure out where my avatar and profile info is. *shrug* Probably because I added it after this post, oh well.

a2capt

LOL, I too just finished reading all that.. When I saw the first message, I thought "this is going to go over extremely well.. there's a lot of people who don't want to be on the distribution list" .. and just adding everyone is going to rile a lot of people.

Worse is, email communications to the ITO are a black hole.

I really hope the Winds of Change with new Command blow throughout the whole structure. There's a lot of folks that have had positions so long they've become recluses.

arajca

You know those who eventually are removed from the list will be the biggest complainers that no one tells when anything is happening, right?

FalconFour

It's why I've always hated old-style "mailing lists"... and really, email as a communications medium in general. I use my email strictly for notification, not for communication - in the ~20 years that email has been around in its current form, it's become just a total trainwreck of botched protocols and a spam cat-and-mouse game. Whenever someone tries to tack communication onto email (ironically, its originally intended purpose), it ends up being a total disaster like this. "Give a guy an inch..."

Discussion boards, of course, have their own issues... for example, on this forum, I only get notified of replies to my own topics, or ones I manually "enable". I wouldn't get notified of new topics, say, if someone posts something interesting. With a mailing list, I get a little notification every time someone says something. There's just no grey area...

But, as evidenced by the "aol.com" emails, some people are still stuck in the stone age and like their email communications. Really, I think the problem here is that people simply don't know how to use email! I really point the blame of this debacle on the clueless users behind the computer... sure, nobody should be *able* to send to "all" by accident, but people SHOULD be checking their addresses before sending! It's the most basic of email communications: who is it being sent to? How can this get overlooked... :/

davidsinn

Quote from: FalconFour on July 05, 2011, 06:22:08 PM
It's why I've always hated old-style "mailing lists"... and really, email as a communications medium in general. I use my email strictly for notification, not for communication - in the ~20 years that email has been around in its current form, it's become just a total trainwreck of botched protocols and a spam cat-and-mouse game. Whenever someone tries to tack communication onto email (ironically, its originally intended purpose), it ends up being a total disaster like this. "Give a guy an inch..."

Discussion boards, of course, have their own issues... for example, on this forum, I only get notified of replies to my own topics, or ones I manually "enable". I wouldn't get notified of new topics, say, if someone posts something interesting. With a mailing list, I get a little notification every time someone says something. There's just no grey area...

But, as evidenced by the "aol.com" emails, some people are still stuck in the stone age and like their email communications. Really, I think the problem here is that people simply don't know how to use email! I really point the blame of this debacle on the clueless users behind the computer... sure, nobody should be *able* to send to "all" by accident, but people SHOULD be checking their addresses before sending! It's the most basic of email communications: who is it being sent to? How can this get overlooked... :/

The stupidity is on IT. They should not have had "all" be the response email. The response email should have gone straight to them. My unit's official email is set up this way. If they hit reply it gets kicked to my email not the unit's.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

FalconFour

Quote from: davidsinn on July 05, 2011, 06:25:00 PMThe stupidity is on IT. They should not have had "all" be the response email. The response email should have gone straight to them. My unit's official email is set up this way. If they hit reply it gets kicked to my email not the unit's.
Well, it's not technically set up improperly at all... all the emails sent to "all" get sent with the user's email address as the default "reply", so replies will go directly to the user, and only an explicit "reply all" will get the "all" address tacked on. The only real mistake is allowing anyone to post to "all" without requiring any sort of admin confirmation.

The original message specifically said not to use "reply all", however, the flaw was in typing out the full "all" email address in parenthesis. That caused peoples' email clients to turn that into a big, blue, bold clickable link... and anyone stupid enough to ignore the text of the email (specifically saying NOT to use that address) will just click it and send it.

Honestly, it's such an obvious mistake (and I, personally, haven't yet sent an email through the "All" address, even by accident), that I think these nutjobs sending "remove" emails should have their CAP activities suspended, just for the safety of the whole group... it takes some SERIOUS lack of logical judgement to consistently make such a dumb mistake in addressing these emails! :/

RiverAux

Why in the world would you encourage people to remove their email address from the national database as the best way to opt-out of a local email list?  What if, for example, national wanted to reach all the members about some issue? 

a2capt

Welcome to the Black Hole Logic that our IT directorate follows. :)

The last piece of fun was because a few people had the usual Outlook address book hijack happen, where it would send random messages with stuff about various drugs out, so the ability to send mail got shut off, and the direction was "send it to me and I'll send it out", so every single message for two days was a "Fwd:" and the original sender was no longer the reply-to, as a reply to would just go to "moderator@cawg..."

First, that looked really professional, and secondly, it meant delays because it was manually done. However, the email server has always been hit and miss anyway, so the delay wasn't that noticeable, it sometimes took an hour or two for your message to come out.  Of course, the system didn't discriminate either. The paging system was not free of the same issues either since it's the same service doing it.


Worse is, when you offer help, suggestions, or outright volunteer to do something, you're just completely ignored anyway. So ..

NIN

Quote from: RiverAux on July 05, 2011, 06:33:35 PM
Why in the world would you encourage people to remove their email address from the national database as the best way to opt-out of a local email list?  What if, for example, national wanted to reach all the members about some issue?

My oh my, how far CA Wing has come from the days of "ca0408.cap.gov" running "Majordomo" (which was also the old "cap-talk@" et al mailing lists. 

(Hint: Majordomo was the software that managed the email list. Majordomo, found here: http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/, was written in part by a CAP member, Brent Chapman. If you've never used majordomo, its a) pretty simple; b) pretty foolproof. Tons of control and features for both users & administrators)

But then again, slurping the user list from the wing email list periodically is an alright idea, but telling people to just pull their email from eServices if they don't want to be on the list is plain lazy.



Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

FalconFour

Huh. Y'know, being a software developer and all, seeing this kind of IT-services rot really makes me wonder if I could help out there somehow. The IT guys in our CA wing still haven't gotten around to moving our squadron website to a usable server (can't run PHP on that server), which has more or less turned me into a totally function-less CAP member, waiting on a reply from IT.  ??? Maybe I can help with more than just our own website...

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: NIN on July 05, 2011, 06:47:30 PM
But then again, slurping the user list from the wing email list periodically is an alright idea, but telling people to just pull their email from eServices if they don't want to be on the list is plain lazy.

Not to mention impossible. e-Services won't let you delete your primary e-mail. Edit, yes. So unless you want to change your primary to you@wish.com (my personal favorite when e-mail is "required") and have your e-services password resets, duty notifications, etc go into the Ethernet, you WILL get CAWG e-mail

a2capt

Heck, it's been since 2005 that PHP hasn't been running, but promised. I actually saw it half working on a citrix session. the interpreter was there, but IIS wouldn't have anything to do with it. A little research showed me that was an easy fix.. but nope, all offers to help. Ignored. Even when Wing issued a command to "get help", they added a rep from each group.. and zero communication has ensued.

Another thing, too. Even cadets are part of this email list, and are getting these nastygrams when people reply to 'all'.

This whole thing is a product of IT not wanting to add the people back manually, who actually want to be on, so the harvest the data from NHQ solution was used, and it's backfiring big time.

It would have been far easier to use a backup and restore the stuff, and find a solution to the problem of adding/removing people that are no longer members of CAP or the wing,  but... whatever.

Yes, the whole thing is run very poorly.

a2capt

It's frustrating, because a mail server isn't rocket science, and could be done a lot more efficiently than this. Even using Google's free enterprise stuff as CAP, as many other CAP commands have done, and set up an alternate system just for paging. 

..and getting PHP/MySQL to work on an IIS server .. come on, that shouldn't take 6+ years.

FalconFour

Now THAT'S the funny thing. Preferential treatment? Take a look what these guys have on their site: http://sq14.cawg.cap.gov/ - is that... could it... no, is... YES! It's PHP!

And it's also not IIS:
C:\Users\Falcon\Documents\tools>tinyget.exe -srv:sq14.cawg.cap.gov -uri:/ -h
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 19:25:53 GMT
Server: Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
X-Powered-By: PHP/5.2.10


Yeah! It's Apache for these guys... that does tie into what the IT guy mentioned about "moving to the LAMP server" (linux/apache/mysql/php). Definitely a better solution IMO than trying to rig PHP into IIS - I'd done that long ago, and it was never a happy setup.

I wonder where I could go to apply to "be" a CAP IT guy... even in my off time, I could probably turn the place around  :angel:

Eclipse

#14
Running unmoderated email lists is unacceptable.  We have the same issue in my wing, though we bring some of it on ourselves
when we send notices about some former member's mother's mailman who died, or non-CAP information through the lists.

But with that said, anyone still running a physical email server in the days of free, robust, secure cloud services is clueless, anyway.

Does this mean the servers are back up?  Because they have been down for at least a week, knocking out email lists
all over the country.

The other thing that is sad / funny / indicative, is that most of the people who complain about too much spam, etc., are usually the ones
causing the issues by sending out ecards, hoaxes ("just had to send / try, you never know"), and forwarding every consarn "too cute, had to
forward" picture they get".

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

I still get this: (when hitting a php item)
Quote from: the cawg.cap.gov serverThe page cannot be displayed

You have attempted to execute a CGI, ISAPI, or other executable program from a directory that does not allow programs to be executed.
Please try the following:

Contact the Web site administrator if you believe this directory should allow execute access.
HTTP Error 403.1 - Forbidden: Execute access is denied.
Internet Information Services (IIS)
So a little tiny bit more research shows me that there is indeed a second server running now. Perhaps when this "mess" is settled down, it may be worthwhile to ask to have the site moved to the one running on Linux.

I really do wish I had taken up that offer to be Wing IT before ITO existed.. Might not have lasted this long, but .. this stuff isn't rocket science.

FalconFour

That's the same thing I got when I tried PHP (as I thought I'd be able to use when I promised to re-design our site from its original 1990's plain text "under construction" page)... I asked about PHP about 3 months ago, and got a reply saying they were waiting on a reply from the "LAMP admin". Then the same a month later, and again, and again... it seems like it's something we can just "ask" to get, but may never be able to get even after asking. Heck, if the guy would just direct the DNS entry to my own server, I'd just host the thing myself! =P

Email mess seems to have settled down... the last few "all" messages have been from people at wit's end with the clueless "remove" mailers, so it seems people are finally getting the idea! Either that or IT just shut off the "All" list, which would be nice too. Hard to believe they let it go on as long as it did...

FalconFour

Well, just when we thought it came to an end with a gigantic crescendo of absolute insanity, people publicly flinging replies about the last guy's "All" email, a couple "ill words" (though completely well-deserved for the utter morons fellow CAP members sending the ALL emails), and a couple MORE braindead "Remove" emails to "All"... (I mean, why hasn't IT shut off this new "ALL" list at this point to put a stop to the mess?!)... a couple new email lists and addresses are set up: one for subscribing, one for unsubscribing, and one "important alerts" list, I guess (personally, I'm staying out of the whole mess and sort of "shouting from the stands" with individual replies).

FINALLY, the wing commander himself puts out a final "EVERYONE SHUT UP NOW I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL PULL THIS CAR OVER!" type of email. Serious business. And the emails stop. Silence, at last.

... yeah, for about 5 hours.
QuoteTo: all
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:08:49 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33912-STANDARD
Subject:
From: A** Z****** <a**z******@aol.com>

please remove me from this list you have downlow it a virus into my computer

i am extremelly upset

I cannot make this s&$@ up.  :o

a2capt

No, He's not making it up. I still have not stopped laughing.

I mean, it's just email. Whoopdie-freaking-doo!

You'd think rapture was coming.

FalconFour

#19
I mean, we really need someone to post SOMETHING smart on there. It's a tough little PR situation they've got into here. Personally, this debacle has made me *really* second guess my confidence in CAP, and I'm not just saying this for my sake, but because I imagine a lot of other unspoken individuals have as well! Anyone watching this whole debacle unfold is probably at wit's end with the whole thing if they're even reading the emails... it's just *horribly* depressing to watch.

I just don't know of anything that could really be posted that would revive confidence after something like this... it's crazy to think those responsible would come forward and admit any kind of mistake or fault, which would certainly be a good start, but what else could even be done?  :-\

Or is this kind of stuff more commonplace than I thought, and most people would just brush it off? Haven't even been in CAP a year myself, so still rusty on this stuff ;)

edit: ohyoumean "not a big deal geez shut up kid", not "inorite?"... haha, boy do I feel stupid.  :-X

♠SARKID♠

I recently had to sift through a similar situation for a separate email list I'm on.  For three days I had a torrent of "please remove me" emails flooding through my inbox.  It was the result of putting the email list in the "to" field, and not the "bcc" field.  Had the latter been done, all replies would have gone to the admin and not EVERYBODY.  I eventually had to set up a filter in gmail to only accept emails from the admin.

Some people need to be neutered for the safety of the human race.

a2capt

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on July 07, 2011, 05:17:06 AMSome people need to be neutered for the safety of the human race.
Thats kinda funny ... how email seems to bring that thought out. Two people suggest something along the same lines in their tirades cc'ed to the list, too.
Quote from: FalconFour on July 07, 2011, 05:16:34 AMOr is this kind of stuff more commonplace than I thought, and most people would just brush it off?
It's pretty much all you can do. Anything else will give you heartburn. Just shake your head and laugh, because fretting and getting angry over it still won't fix it. This whole thing has been broken for many years. Though this is kinda the worse it's been.


Heck, the web sites run on the same box, it must not have been a hardware failure. IIS still kept on going.

JC004

I don't understand.  They can't set up, in CAWG of all places, a proper e-mail list instead of mass-mailing?  There shouldn't BE a "reply to all" ability there to WORRY ABOUT.  Now people will report it as spam, the domain and/or e-mail addresses will get blacklisted, and there will be all sorts of issues stemming from that.  This is so freaking silly that I am totally at a loss on anything else to say of it other than - set up a proper list giving the necessary people proper permissions, make sure it'll be whitelisted, subscribe all the members and allow them the opportunity to unsubscribe if they want (that's the law, no?).  Set up a SEPARATE list for emergency notifications like major missions or VERY VERY important announcements, have everyone on that, and ONLY use it in emergencies.   

Bluelakes 13

As has been said, the solution is really simple, a fixed reply-to back to the IT dude.

vento

Quote from: a2capt on July 05, 2011, 07:48:27 PM
So a little tiny bit more research shows me that there is indeed a second server running now. Perhaps when this "mess" is settled down, it may be worthwhile to ask to have the site moved to the one running on Linux.

I really do wish I had taken up that offer to be Wing IT before ITO existed.. Might not have lasted this long, but .. this stuff isn't rocket science.

More power to you Sir. I too wish you had taken the role of Wing IT. Two years ago I was tasked to work on our squadron website and therefore I asked Wing about MySQL and PHP and was told that my only option was HTML. I then went through every website that had cawg.cap.gov address and found quite a few that were clearly made with PHP CMS and when I asked I was told that I was wrong.  :o

FalconFour

Wait, what?? Seriously? "Hey, what's up with these sites, they're using PHP!", "No they're not, pay no attention to the man behind the email curtain!"... that's pretty messed up. :(

And here I am whining about it just taking too long to set up PHP... you guys were told it wasn't even there?!

a2capt

Thats the other irony of this whole thing. The email list *is* setup correctly. Default Reply-To is to the sender, not the list. People are going out of their way to do that all thing, just because they are used to getting no response from the black hole.

Oh, yes- I did that, too. ..and a little more digging showed me that they were using API's on external sites. I hadn't found any actual evidence of PHP being run from the IIS server, and only recently did I figure out there's actually two. So, the trick is to be asked to be migrated to the other machine.

Seems they nuked all the email accounts, too, as I'm not getting any CAP related mail that was all routed via cawg.cap.gov ...

I'm sure they just told people it wasn't there because it was easier than saying "I can' t get it to work"..

In the end, I just used a commercial provider and alternate domain so I could move the site to something modern, and figured I'd move it back when they get their act together, or when someone else becomes ITO, even if in pipedream city, it was myself.. 

vento

Very sad.
This thread had unintentionally become a CAWG dirty laundry list (and I've contributed to the dirty laundry  :-[ ). Anyway, hopefully we can all learn a thing or two from it.

a2capt

It was a pressure cooker waiting to be released. While I'm sure an enormous amount of work was put into it, mass adding everyone off eServices was just bound to backfire. 

Didn't want to deal with mega amounts of requests, and not having an automated system to do it..  Though, what I would have done in the same situation is:

Using mailman, using the addresses from eServices, and the invite function- that way I know I'm sending out invites that are based on vetted information, and with the writeup saying that the mail server is back in operation, that it had been out of operation and if you would like to receive anything more past this point, click on the confirm link below. Even if you wish to use an alternate email address, click on the confirm link and then change your subscribed email address, the confirmation reply will contain your list password and instructions on how to change your subscriber options.

Again, if you do NOT wish to receive communications from CAWG, simply do nothing. This message will self destruct in 30 seconds. ...  (you get the idea)

Additionally, in the footer of each message I would include a "You are subscribed to all-wing, CAWG email, if you wish to un-subscribe ... click here. (link)." To make changes to your subscription, "click here" (link to login)..

Then that way, the bulk of the work is done, automated, etc. Whatever system of matching for dropping members who let their membership lapse can be done behind the scenes, if someone needs to get back on, or when new members show up, they can simply submit their CAPID, list(s) selection(s), and target email address as always, and they'll be added.

No heartburn, no need to gene pool threats, or other ludicrous responses. Those that do, just drop 'em, and let 'em stay off for a while. Mail list managers have a ban function. Use it.

Major Lord

I think many of the people demanding to be removed from the list are people who think that everyone knows about there particular gripe with CAP (of the moment) and take the opportunity to use the ALL list as sort of a public resignation in lieu of seppuku. Anyone who has been on the list for more than a few days ought to know that this is not how to go about getting off the list, and they are under the impression that we give a rodents-hindquarters about their "resignation" from the list. As silly E-mails go, these are right up there with the "Deputy Assistant Leadership Officer out of State" postings. There is not much really wrong with our IT system, but as the hardware techs say on their repair forms under "cause of problem" : "Loose nut behind keyboard"

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Eclipse

Quote from: Major Lord on July 07, 2011, 11:46:25 PM"Deputy Assistant Leadership Officer out of State" postings.

One of my personal favorites. 

It's a toss-up which is more amusing / indicative of the person - that they don't understand who the important "on call" people are in the wing, or
that they aren't capable of being in-touch when they go on vacation, etc.

I was on the road about 5 months last year, and most people were unaware I was anywhere but "in town".

"That Others May Zoom"

JC004

Quote from: Eclipse on July 08, 2011, 12:03:18 AM
...
I was on the road about 5 months last year, and most people were unaware I was anywhere but "in town".

That's the way it should be.  Automating as much as possible too.  Automation and filtering are key to accomplishing victory over the clutter.

I'm hearing this stuff about PHP, domains, and all here.  It's bringing back some memories of the confusion and mess with the lack of guidance, outdated guidance, word-of-mouth junk, and the like.

So on a related note, I asked Colonel Weiss as part of the Q&A thing that's coming out on his site about addressing the outdated guidance and all.  I'm eager to see if this will be seen as important to address and how he thinks we should go about it if he is elected. 

I believe that the Questions and Answers are coming out tomorrow for us to browse, follow up on and whatever.  I guess we can chat about them here on CAPTalk too.  I'm very interested in the tech pieces.  He has said that if elected, he wants to flip his website into an input engine.

When I was ITO-ing for the wing, there was SO much confusion and ALL THE WAY UP to NHQ because I called/wrote NHQ for help on the limited, confusing guidance that DOES exist.  Long story short, they said - "we dunno.  It needs to be updated."

RRLE

Quotethat they aren't capable of being in-touch when they go on vacation, etc.

Some people have this quaint old notion that vacations are a time to 'get away from it all', 'recharge the batteries' and that is incompatible with being 'in-touch'. Another set believe that there is no real need to be available 24/7 and that getting away for a few hours to days at a time is healthy. Silly people.

Eclipse

#33
Quote from: RRLE on July 08, 2011, 01:02:16 PM
Quotethat they aren't capable of being in-touch when they go on vacation, etc.

Some people have this quaint old notion that vacations are a time to 'get away from it all', 'recharge the batteries' and that is incompatible with being 'in-touch'. Another set believe that there is no real need to be available 24/7 and that getting away for a few hours to days at a time is healthy. Silly people.

Which is fine, I suppose, but if you can really do that in this day and age it means you are likely not on the list as "critical" like a Wing CC or duty officer,
in which case nothing you are asked about can't wait until you get back, or better still be automatically delegated to your assistant or deputy.

I don't even like "out of office" replies for the same reason.

Critical staff should be delegating transparently, non-critical don't need to tell anyone.

Besides, we don't live in a world that allows people to "get away", it moves on, with or without you, 24x7, because that is simply "the way it is".  A lot of people, myself included, can't relax knowing there is a pile of stuff waiting for them when they get back to their desk.  It's much better to practice good time management and task management, keep an eye on things while you're away, and know what needs to get done with those fresh batteries.

"That Others May Zoom"

RRLE

QuoteA lot of people, myself included, can't relax knowing there is a pile of stuff waiting for them when they get back to their desk.

And a lot of us can. It can take a while but you have to learn how to turn off 'work mode'. If you don't you aren't really relaxing.

QuoteIt's much better to practice good time management and task management, keep an eye on things while you're away

What you are describing is work - work is incompatible with vacation.

A very good friend of mine lost his wife, also a very good friend of mine, to breast cancer about 3 years ago. She was in her early 50s. He and had a chat about this topic after she died.  He repeated a truism, he said 'no one on their death beds wishes they had worked harder or spent more time at the office.' It made me rethink a lot of priorities. Then my wife got breast cancer. So far she is beating it. But when I am not at work - I am not at work. The cell gets turned off, I will not check office email etc. I don't know how much time I will have with her but work is not going to interfere with how ever much or little is left. The only thing I want  to keep my eye on when I am away is her. Work can wait. It will be there when you get back. If it is critical someone will handle it. Remember no one is indispensable.

Remember to stop and smell the roses.

N Harmon

Quote from: FalconFour on July 05, 2011, 07:29:31 PM
Now THAT'S the funny thing. Preferential treatment? Take a look what these guys have on their site: http://sq14.cawg.cap.gov/ - is that... could it... no, is... YES! It's PHP!

And it's also not IIS:

So why don't you host your website somewhere else? Just repoint your DNS to the new host.

http://ns1.cap.gov/
NATHAN A. HARMON, Capt, CAP
Monroe Composite Squadron