New CAP-USAF Commander? / Members Expectations?

[RADIOMAN015]

I've noted that Colonel Ward is leaving in June for a new assignment.  Does anyone know if Col Paul Golyd (now the Vic Commander) will be appointed as the new commander

So what do you think Colonel Ward did for us at CAP during his tenure

What would your expectations of what CAP-USAF should do for the volunteer members in the organization and the organization as a whole

Anyone know what percentage of active duty personnel assigned to CAP-USAF retire after their tour

RM

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't think that too many outside of Maxwell, Regions and Wings know too much about the function of CC/CAP-USAF, both in CAP or the Air Force.

That is another symptom of the "benign ignorance" from the Air Force with regard to CAP.

I have no idea who the next CC/CAP-USAF will be.  I imagine Colonel Ward will be able to recommend his successor, but in the end I think the actual appointment is down to CC/AETC.

If I were to get started on what I believe CAP-USAF should do for CAP...that would open a can of worms punctuated by "ain't happenin'."

However, I will say one thing: mandatory briefing on CAP for BMT and OTS.  It would take no more than a couple of evenings of dayroom briefings by MTI's (some of whom may actually be former CAP cadets), at most.  It is inexcusable that so much of the AF does not know who we are.

[Ned]

Col Ward is leaving for a fairly high-speed assignment overseas in a command slot.  He is a fantastic officer and will be missed at CAP-USAF. 

The USAF has a competative process for O6 commands and has appointed Col Ward's successor through their normal process.  I was briefed on the officer's name and current assignment, but I cannot recall it at this moment.  (Getting old, I guess.)

Back when CAP-USAF was a general officer command, most (but not all) commanding generals retired at the end of their tours with CAP.

Every military officer has a "last billet" before retiring, and since so many of the CAP-USAF officers are relatively senior (O5 & O6), it is not particularly surprising that a significant percentage of them retire after their CAP service.

Ned Lee
Retired Military Guy

[DC]

I don't think that too many outside of Maxwell, Regions and Wings know too much about the function of CC/CAP-USAF, both in CAP or the Air Force.

That is another symptom of the "benign ignorance" from the Air Force with regard to CAP.

I have no idea who the next CC/CAP-USAF will be.  I imagine Colonel Ward will be able to recommend his successor, but in the end I think the actual appointment is down to CC/AETC.

If I were to get started on what I believe CAP-USAF should do for CAP...that would open a can of worms punctuated by "ain't happenin'."

However, I will say one thing: mandatory briefing on CAP for BMT and OTS.  It would take no more than a couple of evenings of dayroom briefings by MTI's (some of whom may actually be former CAP cadets), at most.  It is inexcusable that so much of the AF does not know who we are.

OTS is 6/10 of a mile from the NHQ building (I checked  ) at Maxwell. I don't see why someone actually involved with CAP couldn't give a briefing to those guys. An hour or two to describe CAP's missions and capabilities, and how they relate to the Air Force and them as officers. I'm astonished this isn't done already.

[jimmydeanno]

I don't think that too many outside of Maxwell, Regions and Wings know too much about the function of CC/CAP-USAF, both in CAP or the Air Force.

That is another symptom of the "benign ignorance" from the Air Force with regard to CAP.

I have no idea who the next CC/CAP-USAF will be.  I imagine Colonel Ward will be able to recommend his successor, but in the end I think the actual appointment is down to CC/AETC.

If I were to get started on what I believe CAP-USAF should do for CAP...that would open a can of worms punctuated by "ain't happenin'."

However, I will say one thing: mandatory briefing on CAP for BMT and OTS.  It would take no more than a couple of evenings of dayroom briefings by MTI's (some of whom may actually be former CAP cadets), at most.  It is inexcusable that so much of the AF does not know who we are.

OTS is 6/10 of a mile from the NHQ building (I checked  ) at Maxwell. I don't see why someone actually involved with CAP couldn't give a briefing to those guys. An hour or two to describe CAP's missions and capabilities, and how they relate to the Air Force and them as officers. I'm astonished this isn't done already.

They barely get an hour or two of hand-to-hand combat training.  An hour or two of CAP briefing would probably be met as a "our schedule's pretty full" thing.  In all seriousness, CAP's capabilities are a little lower on the totem pole than how to keep yourself alive in combat.

[lordmonar]

The USAF teaches hand to hand combat? 

On the E-side of things....it would be easy to have the USAF to add the information about CAP to the PFE guide (they changed the name since I was in....it is the promotion study guide).  There is a section that explains all the MAJCOMs, how the Guard and Reserves fit in to the USAF....simply add a page or two about CAP.  Explain who we are, what we look like...and a link to how to join.   

[AirDX]

I wouldn't mind knowing how we fit in to the USAF myself.

[NCRblues]

The USAF teaches hand to hand combat? 

On the E-side of things....it would be easy to have the USAF to add the information about CAP to the PFE guide (they changed the name since I was in....it is the promotion study guide).  There is a section that explains all the MAJCOMs, how the Guard and Reserves fit in to the USAF....simply add a page or two about CAP.  Explain who we are, what we look like...and a link to how to join.   

Yes they do teach hand to hand.... every pilot, aircraft crew member, airborne linguist ext. ext. must go through SER school. SER instructors are considered special forces and are top of the line hand to hand combat instructors.

AF PJOC's, combat controllers, security forces, just to name some, all must have hand to hand instruction.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I wouldn't mind knowing how we fit in to the USAF myself.

Read AFI 10-2701, Organisation And Function Of The Civil Air Patrol

You can get it from NHQ's web site, and it really is a rather quick read.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/AFI_102701.pdf

[Lord of the North]

The next CAP-USAF/CC will be Colonel George H. Ross III, the current 14th Flying Training Wing Vice Commander, Columbus AFB Mississippi.

[PHall]

The USAF teaches hand to hand combat? 

On the E-side of things....it would be easy to have the USAF to add the information about CAP to the PFE guide (they changed the name since I was in....it is the promotion study guide).  There is a section that explains all the MAJCOMs, how the Guard and Reserves fit in to the USAF....simply add a page or two about CAP.  Explain who we are, what we look like...and a link to how to join.   

Yes they do teach hand to hand.... every pilot, aircraft crew member, airborne linguist ext. ext. must go through SER school. SER instructors are considered special forces and are top of the line hand to hand combat instructors.

AF PJOC's, combat controllers, security forces, just to name some, all must have hand to hand instruction.

That would be SERE not SER. SER is South East Region of CAP. SERE is Survival, Escape, Resistance and Evasion.
Oh, and I made my visit to Fairchild and the 3636 CCTW back in 1978 when ex Vietnam POW's were Commanding the Wing and took great interest in the training.

[jimmydeanno]

The USAF teaches hand to hand combat? 

Every officer that goes through Field Training and ASBC gets "combatives training," which is essentially wrestling to kill.  I'd consider it to be hand-to-hand combat...

[abdsp51]

Unfortunately as dicked as it may sound BMT has far more important things to teach than who CAP is and what they do.  It has expanded over the past couple of years to 8 weeks now instead of 6 and the bulk of that is Expeditionary training.  I returned from the NCO Academy at the end of May, and there was no mention.  And the main focus for the AF is GWOT and projection of airpower.  And recalling how busy I was when I went through basic there was no time then for something like this nor now.  If you want to put info out about CAP try FTAC on the bases nearby and or ALS. 

[lordmonar]

The USAF teaches hand to hand combat? 

On the E-side of things....it would be easy to have the USAF to add the information about CAP to the PFE guide (they changed the name since I was in....it is the promotion study guide).  There is a section that explains all the MAJCOMs, how the Guard and Reserves fit in to the USAF....simply add a page or two about CAP.  Explain who we are, what we look like...and a link to how to join.   

Yes they do teach hand to hand.... every pilot, aircraft crew member, airborne linguist ext. ext. must go through SER school. SER instructors are considered special forces and are top of the line hand to hand combat instructors.

AF PJOC's, combat controllers, security forces, just to name some, all must have hand to hand instruction.

SER is not basic and/or OCS as the OP posted.

[NCRblues]

The USAF teaches hand to hand combat? 

On the E-side of things....it would be easy to have the USAF to add the information about CAP to the PFE guide (they changed the name since I was in....it is the promotion study guide).  There is a section that explains all the MAJCOMs, how the Guard and Reserves fit in to the USAF....simply add a page or two about CAP.  Explain who we are, what we look like...and a link to how to join.   

Yes they do teach hand to hand.... every pilot, aircraft crew member, airborne linguist ext. ext. must go through SER school. SER instructors are considered special forces and are top of the line hand to hand combat instructors.

AF PJOC's, combat controllers, security forces, just to name some, all must have hand to hand instruction.

SER is not basic and/or OCS as the OP posted.

Ah, missed the "basic" part of it.... no, i didn't get any hand to hand in AF basic... could have changed since then but i doubt it

[JC004]

If you would add such a thing, I would think that you'd simply add it when discussing how the Reserve, Air National Guard fit in...how the Air Force is organized.  I would think that you could give a good basic understanding of what CAP is and what that means to a new Air Force person (CAP-RAP opportunities down the road, encountering CAP people, what the basic missions are, etc.) in FAR less than an hour or two.  They don't need to know two hours' worth of material like the whole structure, how each mission works, or even the complete details of how to do CAP-RAP or something. 

[abdsp51]

Guys the guard and the reserves are mentioned due to the total force concept.  They deploy and fit in the big picture of projecting airpower globally.  It also coincides witht the NSS and Joint Force Planning concepts and the PDG is used for promoting and I dont see the people who head up the WAPS testing putting you guys into the test base.  Your best outlet would be FTAC and ALS if you want to brief the AF on it. 

[AirDX]

I wouldn't mind knowing how we fit in to the USAF myself.

Read AFI 10-2701, Organisation And Function Of The Civil Air Patrol

You can get it from NHQ's web site, and it really is a rather quick read.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/AFI_102701.pdf

I am fully cognizant of that document.  I was speaking somewhat rhetorically, in the current era of confusion, aux on/aux off, declining missions, and the general lack of enthusiasm for CAP out in the USAF. 

[Al Sayre]

The next CAP-USAF/CC will be Colonel George H. Ross III, the current 14th Flying Training Wing Vice Commander, Columbus AFB Mississippi.

Col Ross is a good guy, we have had a very positive relationship with him while he was at Columbus AFB.

[RickFranz]

http://www.columbus.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=12498

Here is a link to his Bio and photo.

[husker]

I don't think that too many outside of Maxwell, Regions and Wings know too much about the function of CC/CAP-USAF, both in CAP or the Air Force.

That is another symptom of the "benign ignorance" from the Air Force with regard to CAP.

I have no idea who the next CC/CAP-USAF will be.  I imagine Colonel Ward will be able to recommend his successor, but in the end I think the actual appointment is down to CC/AETC.

If I were to get started on what I believe CAP-USAF should do for CAP...that would open a can of worms punctuated by "ain't happenin'."

However, I will say one thing: mandatory briefing on CAP for BMT and OTS.  It would take no more than a couple of evenings of dayroom briefings by MTI's (some of whom may actually be former CAP cadets), at most.  It is inexcusable that so much of the AF does not know who we are.

OTS is 6/10 of a mile from the NHQ building (I checked  ) at Maxwell. I don't see why someone actually involved with CAP couldn't give a briefing to those guys. An hour or two to describe CAP's missions and capabilities, and how they relate to the Air Force and them as officers. I'm astonished this isn't done already.

OTS does know who CAP is.  The Alabama Wing Emergency School uses the OTS facilities (on Maxwell, and the remote deployment facility) on a regular basis.  There are at least two former cadets (and both current CAP members - one is the current unit commander at the Maxwell Composite Squadron) who have current OTS flights.  I am not aware, however, if there is any formal CAP briefing in their regular curriculum.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Unfortunately as dicked as it may sound BMT has far more important things to teach than who CAP is and what they do.

Wow, like the marathon dorm-cleaning sessions and folding underwear and socks that I remember from long ago?

The MTI amusement sessions of "pick it up, put it down?"

Those are higher on the level of priority than a short briefing on the Air Force's Auxiliary?

I am fully cognizant of that document.  I was speaking somewhat rhetorically, in the current era of confusion, aux on/aux off, declining missions, and the general lack of enthusiasm for CAP out in the USAF. 

Point taken.  Rhetoric/irony doesn't come across well on the internet.

I would like to know just who came up with the Aux On/Aux Off bit...had that existed back in '93 I would not have joined CAP and would have turned more toward the CGAUX or USNSCC.

[DogCollar]

The acronym usage in this thread makes it very difficult for me to follow.  I did not serve in the military (not because I didn't want to!!!  The military wouldn't have me!!! ) 

[FW]

I would like to know just who came up with the Aux On/Aux Off bit...had that existed back in '93 I would not have joined CAP and would have turned more toward the CGAUX or USNSCC.

The term is only found on CAP Talk; the perception CAP is the Air Force Auxiliary only when engaged in an approved AFM.  As the Air Force "pulled out" from running NHQ back in 1994, the "USAF Aux" was removed from our aircraft and vehicles and, the use of our official seal has been marginalized in favor of the CAP "Command Patch" and "Triangle", I can understand the perception; however wrong it may be.

[lordmonar]

I am fully cognizant of that document.  I was speaking somewhat rhetorically, in the current era of confusion, aux on/aux off, declining missions, and the general lack of enthusiasm for CAP out in the USAF.

Aux on/AUX off only has to be with when we are legally members of the government and covered by FICA and when we are not.

WE ARE ALWAYS the Civilian Auxillary to the United States Air Force.

Declining missions?  No such thing.  Declining false alarms due to the 121.5 not being monitored yes.  But since 9-11 we have increased the amount of direct support missions to the USAF.

lack of enthusiasm?  I don't see it.  The step back of support by local bases is simply an artifact of the lack of money and lack of manpower those bases have.  It has nothing to do with CAP.....other than the source of free support has gone away.

[RADIOMAN015]

I'm a bit confused about what my expectations would be from CAP-USAF, because I not sure if they are more of a "contract monitor" or a facilitator for CAP Inc when additional AF support is need, OR perhaps both.   So can are we dealing with a two headed monster or two head saint   -- compliance task master OR helpful customer service/support  

I think the state directors have a difficult job, especially with the way the manpower authorization standard was developed (geographic area covered (square miles) versus total number of CAP units in a specific geographic area), and this can impact the quality of the support.   Additionally, my understanding is CAP-USAF limits the amount of overtime these state directors can work (some would likely work longer), even though they could be considered exempt employee under the various federal laws.  I would think that we should fly them whenever possible to do unit visits to cut down on their travel time (and available time).  I would guess that they could bank some of that overtime for additional comp vacation time, but likely there's a limit on that also.

Also what is bit confusing is what HQ CAP's involvement is with the state directors, that basically are supporting the CAP wings, I would consider directly (and are likely reporting to their detachment (region level) commanders.  Also units that are on military bases may sometimes have the ability to get things directly without state director involvement, BUT I would guess as a courtesy to the state director they should at least least him/her know what assistance/support was provided.  Perhaps IF some problems can't be solved locally, than the state director can be brought in to facilitate correction/mitigation of the problem/issue.

I seem to feel that the CAP-USAF operations side has ramped up their expectations of CAP's performance during evaluations and walk through training.  Perhaps they should look at some no notice type exercises and definitely ensures that CAP conducts a nationwide communications exercise and perhaps even require quarterly comm exercises.  A lot of money has spent on radio communications equipment and a good test should be expected.  Perhaps also more expectation on the overall use of the radios could be addressed.       

At our unit we basically see our state director once a year, since he is required to make a visit to every unit, and has a checklist he has to utilize, so likely a report goes up through channels to HQ CAP-USAF.

RM
           

[abdsp51]

Cyborg think back about what lessons where being taught then, marathon folding sessions (attention to detail, excellence in all we do) those amusement sessions of pick up put down (team work and following orders).  Instilling these in todays airmen and when I came in where and are more important than briefing about CAP. You can agree to disagree me with on but if you really want to inform or brief todays new airmen the best place to do that is in FTAC and ALS.

[RADIOMAN015]

Cyborg think back about what lessons where being taught then, marathon folding sessions (attention to detail, excellence in all we do) those amusement sessions of pick up put down (team work and following orders).  Instilling these in todays airmen and when I came in where and are more important than briefing about CAP. You can agree to disagree me with on but if you really want to inform or brief todays new airmen the best place to do that is in FTAC and ALS.

When I went through AF basic in the 1970's, I can honestly say that it was worthless, unless you were a project 100000 selectee....(as a junior college graduate I already had the self discipline and willingness to service my country)  Surely learning how to tightening that bed blanket down or marching in circles really helped national security -- I doubt it ---- and NEVER marched again in my entire 20+ AF career (yea we stood in formation a few times during change of command ceremonies, but never marched around).

I just don't see everyone in the AF knowing (and liking) CAP as a big training objective.   The decision makers are the people that need to know about us and that is covered in training courses at this time.  HOWEVER, CAP'ers don't need to be walking around with chips on their shoulders either , and my guess is most problems are caused by senior members wearing the AF style uniform.  Get rid of that uniform option ((which would be unfortunate for the organization)     and the problems likely will disappear.
RM     

[AirDX]

WE ARE ALWAYS the Civilian Auxillary to the United States Air Force.

That sounds good, but it's just not true.  Compare and contrast 10 USC 9442 regarding CAP's status with 14 USC 821 defining USCGAUX's status.  There is an enormous difference, and it's quite clear we are held at arm's length by the USAF.  Yes, we are funded by the Air Force, but IMHO only because we've managed to lobby effectively for a line in the Defense budget.

[abdsp51]

Radioman again it was the lessons behind those tasks are what promote the NSS.  While I was at Keesler I saw a CAP SM saluted by a airman there and didnt even bother to return it.  The majority of the AF not knowing about or very little about CAP, can be attributed to CAP not promoting itself.  That does not mean mandatory briefings in BMT or OCS most of the airmen there want to get through the course and press on, and a briefing that has a minor relation to what they are doing will be dumped and looked at as time lost that they will not get back.

[NCRblues]

I think if a briefing on cap is what you all desperately want, than write up a proposal and send it to your wing commander.

Honestly, FTAC is the way to go. The AF is going to give you the run around about being overly busy at basic and tech schools.

I think we could get solid returns on the FTAC side. Instead of writing a paper on why i joined the AF (like i had to do in FTAC) , they could slip a 20 min briefing in on what CAP is and does.

[abdsp51]

I think if a briefing on cap is what you all desperately want, than write up a proposal and send it to your wing commander.

Honestly, FTAC is the way to go. The AF is going to give you the run around about being overly busy at basic and tech schools.

I think we could get solid returns on the FTAC side. Instead of writing a paper on why i joined the AF (like i had to do in FTAC) , they could slip a 20 min briefing in on what CAP is and does.

Bingo, FTAC and ALS is the way to go if you want to reach out to the AF.  BMT and tech school is not the place for it.

[FW]

WE ARE ALWAYS the Civilian Axillary to the United States Air Force.

That sounds good, but it's just not true.  Compare and contrast 10 USC 9442 regarding CAP's status with 14 USC 821 defining USCGAUX's status.  There is an enormous difference, and it's quite clear we are held at arm's length by the USAF.  Yes, we are funded by the Air Force, but IMHO only because we've managed to lobby effectively for a line in the Defense budget.

This is the pertanent part of the code:

(a) Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary. - The Civil Air Patrol is a
volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of
the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any
branch of the Federal Government.

We, as an organization, are always being used by "any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government". Every time we use government assets, every time we train, every time we are on a mission, every time we put on the AF style uniform, every time we pay our wing administrator or a member of the NHQ staff, our services are being used by the Air Force. 

Patrick is quite correct in his statement however, there is a perception problem which needs to be corrected. 

And, it's obvious we need to do a better job in getting the word out.  As soon as we can get the new CAP-USAF/CC to go "native", we can begin the process.  (getting the National Board to elect me as National Commander would be a plus too... )

[NCRblues]

WE ARE ALWAYS the Civilian Axillary to the United States Air Force.

That sounds good, but it's just not true.  Compare and contrast 10 USC 9442 regarding CAP's status with 14 USC 821 defining USCGAUX's status.  There is an enormous difference, and it's quite clear we are held at arm's length by the USAF.  Yes, we are funded by the Air Force, but IMHO only because we've managed to lobby effectively for a line in the Defense budget.

This is the pertanent part of the code:

(a) Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary. - The Civil Air Patrol is a
volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of
the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any
branch of the Federal Government.

We, as an organization, are always being used by "any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government". Every time we use government assets, every time we train, every time we are on a mission, every time we put on the AF style uniform, every time we pay our wing administrator or a member of the NHQ staff, our services are being used by the Air Force. 

Patrick is quite correct in his statement however, there is a perception problem which needs to be corrected. 

And, it's obvious we need to do a better job in getting the word out.  As soon as we can get the new CAP-USAF/CC to go "native", we can begin the process.  (getting the National Board to elect me as National Commander would be a plus too... )

Amen

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

my guess is most problems are caused by senior members wearing the AF style uniform.  Get rid of that uniform option ((which would be unfortunate for the organization)     and the problems likely will disappear.
RM   

Couldn't resist, could you?

it's quite clear we are held at arm's length by the USAF.

That close?  I've watched us over 18 years in CAP go from being welcomed on AF installations, to barely tolerated, to in some cases kicked off and having to find new meeting space.

Cyborg think back about what lessons where being taught then, marathon folding sessions (attention to detail, excellence in all we do) those amusement sessions of pick up put down (team work and following orders).

There were other things I learnt, in and out of BMT, that taught me a lot more about detail and excellence than that.  I'm talking about perhaps deleting ONE underpants-folding session.

Those sessions were basically to placate the TI, and he said as much: "do it right and I won't rip your ******* heads off, otherwise I could give a ****."

[HGjunkie]

HOWEVER, CAP'ers don't need to be walking around with chips on their shoulders either , and my guess is most problems are caused by senior members wearing the AF style uniform.  Get rid of that uniform option ((which would be unfortunate for the organization)     and the problems likely will disappear.
RM   

You mean like this?

[RADIOMAN015]

HOWEVER, CAP'ers don't need to be walking around with chips on their shoulders either , and my guess is most problems are caused by senior members wearing the AF style uniform.  Get rid of that uniform option ((which would be unfortunate for the organization)     and the problems likely will disappear.
RM   

You mean like this?

Well the "chip on your shoulder' statement is a bit too strong in retrospect
RM

[abdsp51]

Really Cyborg, to placate the MTIs?  Have you ever seen their curriculum or better yet have you contributed to it?  One thing I have learned is that there is usually more to something than what's on the surface.  And kicked off the installation whom did they piss off? When I was a member the unit I joined we were threatened with being kicked off but we had some [darn] good SM's who fought for us and helped make sure we didn't get kicked off. 

[jimmydeanno]

That close?  I've watched us over 18 years in CAP go from being welcomed on AF installations, to barely tolerated, to in some cases kicked off and having to find new meeting space.

My last three squadrons were all on military installations.

The first was ACC HQ, Langley AFB.  Despite the massive renovations and base modernization they were going through, they thought we were valuable enough to the base that they provided us with over 2,000 square feet for our squadron.  We supported several events on base (airshow, dependent days, etc). (At the time, 90-110 active members) 

The second was an AMC Base, Pease ANGB.  Despite the limited amount of space and personnel on the base, high flying ops tempo, they managed to find us over 1,000 square feet of space, and the joint use of a maintenance hangar.  We supported their family support events, etc.  They loved us and went out of their way to get us on flights, take tours, etc. (At the time, 75-80 active members)

The third is a AF Global Strike Base, Barksdale AFB.  Again, despite constant exercises, real-world deployments, massive renovation, the base has gone out of their way to find us a location to meet.  Right now, we have about 1,000 square feet, use of the base youth center facilities, and they host the wing encampment there.  We support several of the family support events, and they like us. (Right now, 50 active members)

My assumption is that the ones that were "kicked out" was a result of the local CAP commander screwing things up, not that the base didn't want CAP there.  I have never had anything but support and open arms when it comes to supporting CAP by the Air Force.  YMMV.

[Mustang]

Personally, I'm not a fan of Col Ward.   Dude never held a candle to his predecessor, and the "contributions" he and his doofus safety guy--both of whom clearly don't understand the concept of "part time volunteer"--to our mandatory monthly safety briefing requirement have rendered CAP less capable, not more safe.

[SoCalMarine]

Yes they do teach hand to hand.... every pilot, aircraft crew member, airborne linguist ext. ext. must go through SER school. SER instructors are considered special forces and are top of the line hand to hand combat instructors.

AF PJOC's, combat controllers, security forces, just to name some, all must have hand to hand instruction.

I don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking but its SERE school. There's a second E there. Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape. This might explain a thing or two about the USAF since they aren't practicing the Escape part!

But seriously, people were joking about USAF and hand-to-hand training. We all understand has some level of SERE training, but its limited in scope to certain MOSs. All Marines receive basic SERE training in boot camp, but you'd expect a ground combat branch to do that.

[Spaceman3750]

"part time volunteer"

Personally, I prefer being a "volunteer professional". That means I have to put up with safety regs, uniform manuals, and other things I don't like all the time.

Disclaimer: I think I ripped this phrase off from other members here. Credit to those guys.