PT standards lowering

[sneakers]

Currently, my squadron has one former cadet who graduated last year from the Air Force Academy, one who is finishing up his first-classman (senior) year at the Air Force Academy, one who is finishing up his senior year at Westpoint, one finishing up his plebe year at the Naval Academy, one who heads off to the Merchant Marine Academy in less than a month, a couple cadets in ROTC at Embry-Riddle, and many other cadets who have gone various routes into the military. Oh, and my squadron only consists of about 20 cadets at any one time.  :clap:
 
P.T. at my squadron has given them a little bit of the drive they need to accomplish their high goals. Standards are there for a reason -- keep them high.

[titanII]

Currently, my squadron has one former cadet who graduated last year from the Air Force Academy, one who is finishing up his first-classman (senior) year at the Air Force Academy, one who is finishing up his senior year at Westpoint, etc...

similar in my squadron. I only know of one or two cadets that didn't join CAP "because I want to go into the (insert service here)".

[Skydude61]

You do bend PT into a leadership training opportunity, right?

Having your NCO's conduct the whole show...
Leading warmups;
Doing everything;
Making sure things finish on schedule;
Shuffling troops around, here and there...

We have a senior member "present"
but PT is run by the NCO's.


With mild creativity, you can turn almost everything into leadership training.

Also, keep in mind that according to CAPP 52-15 the key duties of the first sergeant include "Lead Cadets in PT. As first sergeant, you will lead cadets in fitness games and drills, and ensure cadets warm-up and cool-down properly. You are expected to be a great motivator during all fitness events."

[crazygrrl304]

my squadron has had our fair share of military academy goers, and i personally don't think PT did much for them because they were already motivated to be here in CAP. I personally am really bad at PT, but i would rather them make it more hardcore and strenuous than pathetically easy. 

[Nathan]

I understand why the PT requirement exists. I support such a requirement. I also know that, after completing the entire program, the list of things I am thankful for experiencing does not include the Spaatz PT test.

CAP is a leadership program, and we have SO MUCH to offer cadets. Even fat, out-of-shape cadets.

If this were a perfect world, I would advocate that consistent exercise be a requirement without actual standardized PT tests being required. I want cadets to try their hardest to get in shape, but not have to tell a cadet that. at 300 pounds, they aren't going to get the chance to command or learn higher-level leadership.

Let's be perfectly honest. An obese cadet stuck at C/Amn has little incentive to drop the weight. He doesn't even know what he's missing. It's easier just to drop out, and given that obesity isn't exactly easy to fight anyway, what's stopping him?

On the other hand, give a cadet a command position, force him to be a role-model for subordinates, and you have a MUCH greater chance of seeing that weight disappear. I only started taking working out seriously when I felt I needed to outrun everyone in the flight I had been assigned to command.

I'd be all for finding some better way to encourage a healthy, active lifestyle without compromising any cadet's ability to experience everything else CAP has to offer.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I miss the point system that went away right before I joined.

Minimum of X points overall. Potential minimum X points on each event.

That way we REALLY focused on cadet strengths. Suck at running? Pump out the pushups and situps. Suck at those? Work that mile time down. Etc.

[sneakers]

That's true, but we also want to work on overall fitness, not just one specific portion of the test.

[jimmydeanno]

I miss the point system that went away right before I joined.

Minimum of X points overall. Potential minimum X points on each event.

That way we REALLY focused on cadet strengths. Suck at running? Pump out the pushups and situps. Suck at those? Work that mile time down. Etc.

How do you miss something that you never participated in?  It's like me saying that I miss President Kennedy.

I went through the cadet program when the point system was in place.  It wasn't all it is cracked up to be.  The standards were such that you didn't even have to do two of the events until around the Mitchell.  So, if you can do 60 situps in 2 minutes, you could get yourself to C/MSgt.  Want your Mitchell?  Do 60 Situps and V-Sit 5cm. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

I miss the point system that went away right before I joined.

Minimum of X points overall. Potential minimum X points on each event.

That way we REALLY focused on cadet strengths. Suck at running? Pump out the pushups and situps. Suck at those? Work that mile time down. Etc.

How do you miss something that you never participated in?  It's like me saying that I miss President Kennedy.

I went through the cadet program when the point system was in place.  It wasn't all it is cracked up to be.  The standards were such that you didn't even have to do two of the events until around the Mitchell.  So, if you can do 60 situps in 2 minutes, you could get yourself to C/MSgt.  Want your Mitchell?  Do 60 Situps and V-Sit 5cm.

Miss it because I got the olde books to start with. I also never earned the Feik, even though I joined right when it went live. Sometimes units aren't high speed, and transitions take too long.

[Nnd]

PT night is a night for the fitness testing of cadets. It detirmines if a cadet is physically fit to promote. CAP can do as much PT as they want to in a PT night, but PT is not supposed to be full workout night. Once a month PT should not be a Cadet's only workout. It should be on the Cadet's responsibility to keep themselves fit because one session a month won't work out.

My point is that PT should only be a night for fitness testing , not training. PT also does not have to take up the entire meeting, so a game, leadership lesson, or a team building activity could also fill in the rest of the time gap.

[Ron1319]

PT night is a night for the fitness testing of cadets. It detirmines if a cadet is physically fit to promote. CAP can do as much PT as they want to in a PT night, but PT is not supposed to be full workout night. Once a month PT should not be a Cadet's only workout. It should be on the Cadet's responsibility to keep themselves fit because one session a month won't work out.

My point is that PT should only be a night for fitness testing , not training. PT also does not have to take up the entire meeting, so a game, leadership lesson, or a team building activity could also fill in the rest of the time gap.

Please show me where in the regulations it says that PT night is supposed to only be about fitness testing?  A squadron with physical fitness issues could easily schedule two nights with an hour of physical training a month for a period of time to encourage more fitness.  I'd like to point out that PT stands for "Physical Training," and CPFT stands for the "Cadet Physical Fitness Test."

[lordmonar]

I can show you in the regulation where it specifically says that the CAP PT program is about more than JUST testing.

Having said all that I agree that we need to lower or do away with the CAP PT standards....the are just not realistic.

[coudano]

the are just not realistic.

You keep saying that, but I keep seeing cadets strive for and accomplish their goals with regards to PT.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

PT night is a night for the fitness testing of cadets. It detirmines if a cadet is physically fit to promote. CAP can do as much PT as they want to in a PT night, but PT is not supposed to be full workout night. Once a month PT should not be a Cadet's only workout. It should be on the Cadet's responsibility to keep themselves fit because one session a month won't work out.

My point is that PT should only be a night for fitness testing , not training. PT also does not have to take up the entire meeting, so a game, leadership lesson, or a team building activity could also fill in the rest of the time gap.

Everyone else's point is that one or two PT night's a month, testing Must be done, but the rest of the PT meetings should be used for PT, not the CPFT, but PT. Take it from someone who is 27, and started PT around the age of 14, and hasn't stopped. PT is teaching you how to train. It teaches you what to do to train muscles to perform, yes, you train muscles to perform.

No one here said PT night should be the only time cadets do PT, just that it is likely the only time they will. PT should be done at  leastevery two or three days, personally, I prefer every day, but that is coming from an Army guy who did PT every day. Running, pushups, and situps should be an every day activity.

[Eclipse]

the are just not realistic.

You keep saying that, but I keep seeing cadets strive for and accomplish their goals with regards to PT.

If anything they are somewhere between spot on and too lax.  Granted, the average PWIISXer is going to need oxygen the first few tries, but they are in line with what a reasonably healthy kid or that relative age should be capable of doing.  Though today I am aged, infirmed, and essentially
broken beyond repair, through my teen years I could have run rings around most cadets, and I was far from an athlete.  Mainly because we walked everywhere we went, and more then occasionally were running away from this that or the other.  Thanks to some "creative" use of my vehicle,
I was chained to a bicycle well into early 20's for college, work, everything.

My two kids have two speeds - still and full run, but many of their peers have nothing but overdeveloped thumbs, and have to get a ride from
mom to come down the street.

By the time you're into Spaatz, it's a fair push for anyone, but Phase 1 is basic fitness.

I've never looked, but how well are they aligned with the Presidential Physical Fitness Award?   

[coudano]

The CP pt standard *IS* the presidential fitness award.
phase 1 asks cadets to perform at the 25th percentile level at their age group.
spaatz asks cadets to perform at the 75th percentile level at their age group.


That's right, to get promoted to airman, you have to be only at or above the bottom 1/4th of American youth as measured by the presidential fitness standard.

Seriously...   ANYBODY with a little motivation and practice, can do that.




Also I don't know how much validity this holds, but I think that the Mitchell requirement has historically been based on basic training accession standards...   Let's see, we ask a 17+ year old male going for the mitchell to:
Sit and Reach:  34
Curl Ups: 44
Push Ups:  37
Shuttle Run:  9.4
Mile Run:   7:04

Supposing that the cadet kept up the 7:04 pace for an additional half mile, that'd be a 10:36 mile and a half.

SO if that cadet went and did the USAF PT test, his score would be:
1.5 Mile:  57.3 points
Push Ups:  6.0 points (only 4 from failing pushups!!!)
Curl Ups:  6.5 points (only 2 from failing curl ups!!!)
The cadet would have to have a waist no bigger than 39 inches, for 12.6 points

So that gets a brand new E3 at basic training, an 82.4 on the AFPT, with pretty marginal scores on 2 events (!)
I think that any Mitchell cadet that we hand to the USAF, and that they give E-3 to based on that award,
should *AT LEAST* be able to do this minimum...  Seriously.  At the very least.
And that airman would be testing twice a year and possibly enrolled in FIP...

[Eclipse]

^ Well then clearly it's, at the least, wholly appropriate, and one could argue somewhat lax.

Where I have seen some semi-legit issues is younger, fast-burner cadets, especially before they instituted the mandated
time between promotions, who were pushing at 15(ish) to try things more intended for 17-18 years olds, but those
are pretty rare these days.

[coudano]

I've found younger cadets to be MUCH more flexible than older cadets on sit and reach (i've had 13 year old female cadets who could reach all the way to the opposite side of the measurement box, literally off the scales!!!!!!)

I have also found younger cadets to be faster at the shuttle run.

They certainly have an advantage in some areas.

[SarDragon]

The last time I participated in the CPFT, I was 55, and could pass the Wright Brothers level for 17+. I was in the middle of the pack for the mile run, which was a little surprising. I thought more of the cadets would have passed me up.

That said, I think the current standards might be a little low. They haven't been re-normed in a long time, and current military induction standards (AF noted above) have changed over time. I think that is a good 50th %ile level.

[Ron1319]

It surprises me how many of our new cadets can't run a whole mile without walking.  They catch on after a while and do better.