PT standards lowering

[BGNightfall]

That's largely the reason I advocate an objective standard.  I was only pointing out that calculating 5% of anything, even on a large scale is not a logistical nightmare with even a rudimentary amount of fore-planning. 

On a point system (which is what was in place prior to the current CPFT, btw) a cadet could manage to get by with having a very high score in a single category until after they'd gotten their Mitchell award.  Since that was not promoting all-around fitness, the move was made to the current CPFT. 

Honestly, I'm not against a standard where a cadet has to make a commitment to passing it... I'm pretty sure one of the goals of the CPFT is to promote a fitness-lifestyle.  Short answer: If your cadets aren't advancing because of the CPFT, don't lower the standards on the test, raise the bar on your leadership.

[lordmonar]

Do both.

Have an objective standard as the high end.

And have an "improvement" standard or a "participation" standard for those who have not met the current PT standards.

As I said before......my real heart burn with CAP PT program is that it takes too much time away from doing our leadership program.

A good physical fitness life style is not one day a month. 

I want to correct that.......but I can't do CAP four times a week (one for leadership and three PT).

We leave behind (i.e. they quit or do not join in the first place) many cadets who cannot meet the current PT standards.
The few that do join end up getting stymied because they just can't pass the PT standard and they don't have the time, motivation or simple physical ability to pass it.

We have one cadet....a big boy in the old southern sense....not really fat....but big.  But he never got passed c/Sra due to PT.  He got frustrated and would disappear for a few months come back.....fail PT again and then disappear.

I think that CAP would be better served and we would better serve our target audience if we dropped the "standard" as is and changed it to a "what have you done this week" sort of standard.

A standard that makes them do something....walk 2 miles or run 1.  Ride your bike for 30 minutes.  Do 10000 sit ups. 100 push ups.

Run in place for 15 minutes 3 times a week.

Log your activity and be done with it.  So everyone must do some sort of exercise even the CAT IV and everyone improves their physical fitness by doing what is recommended by most heath authorities (30 minutes 3 days a week).

[DC]

Do both.

Have an objective standard as the high end.

And have an "improvement" standard or a "participation" standard for those who have not met the current PT standards.

As I said before......my real heart burn with CAP PT program is that it takes too much time away from doing our leadership program.

A good physical fitness life style is not one day a month. 

I want to correct that.......but I can't do CAP four times a week (one for leadership and three PT).

We leave behind (i.e. they quit or do not join in the first place) many cadets who cannot meet the current PT standards.
The few that do join end up getting stymied because they just can't pass the PT standard and they don't have the time, motivation or simple physical ability to pass it.

We have one cadet....a big boy in the old southern sense....not really fat....but big.  But he never got passed c/Sra due to PT.  He got frustrated and would disappear for a few months come back.....fail PT again and then disappear.

I think that CAP would be better served and we would better serve our target audience if we dropped the "standard" as is and changed it to a "what have you done this week" sort of standard.

A standard that makes them do something....walk 2 miles or run 1.  Ride your bike for 30 minutes.  Do 10000 sit ups. 100 push ups.

Run in place for 15 minutes 3 times a week.

Log your activity and be done with it.  So everyone must do some sort of exercise even the CAT IV and everyone improves their physical fitness by doing what is recommended by most heath authorities (30 minutes 3 days a week).

+1,000,000,000

The only problem with such a system is verification. You would hope that cadets would not lie, the core values and all that, but the fact is that some will. Even requiring parental verification could be a problem, I have met parents that would lie for their kid in a heartbeat if they thought it would make their life easier. It would likely become apparent over time though if the cadet insists they are working out, but they are not improving on the CPFT every month.

[coudano]

You do bend PT into a leadership training opportunity, right?

Having your NCO's conduct the whole show...
Leading warmups;
Doing everything;
Making sure things finish on schedule;
Shuffling troops around, here and there...

We have a senior member "present"
but PT is run by the NCO's.


With mild creativity, you can turn almost everything into leadership training.

[a2capt]

Yup. Sounds like our PT.

[lordmonar]

It is bang for the buck.

A PT day is less productive as a leadership lab IMHO then what we do on our normal meetings.

That coupled with the results of our PT efforts.  One PT night a month does not make a healthy lifestyle.  I would like to find a system that balances our desire to have objective standards, something that actually pushes the cadets to exercise three times a week, and something that does not lock out our lower 10% with no or little hope of progressing.

[coudano]

What are you doing on your off-pt nights that renders so much more positive llab than pt?
Because we get some pretty good mileage out of PT for our cadet leaders.


OTOH back in the journal days, cadets just pencil whipped their ex reqs.
Or simply didn't do them at all, without any checking or enforcement from the squadron.

You really think that cadets that (obviously) aren't willing to actually do the exercise at home needed to pass pt standards are going to actually do the exercise at home to satisfy some journal requirement?

How does this improve the 'physical fitness' element of the cadet program over what we have now?
Or do you think we should just eliminate physical fitness as an element of the program all together?

[lordmonar]

Well I will admit......I personally think we just need to drop the PT standards all together.

I want to focus on leadership.  PT is just a PITA IMHO.

The alternitive is to just lower the standards.....why did anyone pick the 75% for being a Spaatz?
An alternifitve to simply do a base line at Curry and allow promotions if they increase by 5% or until the hit the standards.

My bottom line is that I would rather do other leadership instruction instead of spending the night doing kick ball and the PT test.
I think that the PT program scares away potential cadets and is a major reason why other cadets don't progress.

Currently the only way abound it is to get the cadets to get a doctor to sign off on a CAT IV....which is not really the intent of that program.

[Eclipse]

I think that the PT program scares away potential cadets and is a major reason why other cadets don't progress.

It scares them because the rest of their world consists of x-box and a groove in the couch.  We can't fix the ills of society, but that doesn't mean
we should cave because cadets struggle with the standard - the struggle is the point, and many parents and cadets seek us out for those standards and
objective goals.

Besides, who said you can't impart leadership lessons during PT?  Not to mention team-building, encouraging others, etc.  Done correctly PT can be a lot of fun, and everyone is always harping on how we've squeezed the "fun" out of CAP.

So you'd add more "leadership" to the program and lose PT?

[sneakers]

I think that the PT program scares away potential cadets and is a major reason why other cadets don't progress.

It scares them because the rest of their world consists of x-box and a groove in the couch.  We can't fix the ills of society, but that doesn't mean
we should cave because cadets struggle with the standard - the struggle is the point, and many parents and cadets seek us out for those standards and
objective goals.

Besides, who said you can't impart leadership lessons during PT?  Not to mention team-building, encouraging others, etc.  Done correctly PT can be a lot of fun, and everyone is always harping on how we've squeezed the "fun" out of CAP.

So you'd add more "leadership" to the program and lose PT?

Precisely.

[coudano]

Currently the only way abound it is to get the cadets to get a doctor to sign off on a CAT IV....which is not really the intent of that program.

Or to, you know...
exercise some self discipline (that's chapter 1 leadership, btw)
and work out throughout the week and month so that you can pass when the CPFT comes around

CAP CP is a 'military model'.
And the military requires PT.

So you'd add more "leadership" to the program and lose PT?

More specifically, how?
Please demonstrate for me (with a lesson plan or some similar list of content) the 24 contact hours a year that would yield better leadership results than cadet-run PT, specifically in addition to and separate from what you are already doing on the other 3 nights a month.

[Eclipse]

So you'd add more "leadership" to the program and lose PT?

More specifically, how?
Please demonstrate for me (with a lesson plan or some similar list of content) the 24 contact hours a year that would yield better leadership results than cadet-run PT, specifically in addition to and separate from what you are already doing on the other 3 nights a month.

You misunderstood - I was asking, not telling.  I don't agree with the idea either.  Lord said PT was a PITA and he'd rather replace it
with more "leadership", which to me sounds like more drill or sitting around.

[coudano]

You misunderstood - I was asking, not telling.  I don't agree with the idea either.  Lord said PT was a PITA and he'd rather replace it
with more "leadership", which to me sounds like more drill or sitting around.

I understood, I was taking your statement, elaborating on it, and intended it to be re-directed back to lordmonar.

[HGjunkie]

PT shouldn't be taken out completely, but I like the idea of it being a benchmark on how well the cadets are progressing in their personal fitness routines. If the cadets are actually exercising at home, the month-to-month evaluations should steadily improve. I think that's what we should be focusing on.

[coudano]

If the cadets are earnestly exercising at home,
then the CPFT is a breeze.


I've heard another proposal floated, to make participation PT based, rather than promotions.
For example, the military only does PT testing twice a year (or once, in some cases)
You have to pass that one test, then you're golden for a year.
If you don't pass it, you have to go on a remedial fitness plan and so on, until you do pass it;
and eventually you can even be thrown out of the military.

However, i've watched people do REALLY stupid stuff to pass that one test,
crash diets, drugs, and so on.
that is far far far more unhealthy than regular testing and even better, a lifestyle of practicing fitness and diet control.

[jimmydeanno]

I think that eliminating the PT altogether sends the wrong message.  I think it tells kids that obesity is OK.  Education is an important part of leadership, but so is using what you learn to improve.  So, we educate a cadet (future leader) about nutrition, importance of exercise, the importance of being healthy as it pertains to accomplishing the mission, etc. and then they opt not to use that education.

Part of our program is pushing our cadets to do things that they otherwise wouldn't do.  Getting them off the sofa and running occasionally isn't a bad thing and fitness is a vital part of a well-rounded (no pun intended) leader.

Leadership is about being self-motivated, setting the example, and "practicing what you preach." Our Air Force leaders are telling us it is important to them and the nation for us to make fitness a part of our daily routine. It is up to us to execute that directive and do our best (excellence in all we do) to continue to improve.

Physical fitness is a key to leadership, and not just for soldiers:

Gen. David Petraeus has a clear view of leadership, as Maj. John Patrick Gallagher recounts in the book "Leadership Lessons of the White House Fellows," by Charles Garcia. One day when Petraeus was a colonel in the 82nd Airborne Division, he asked his soldiers to name the number one leadership priority of the brigade.

Integrity? Marksmanship? No, the correct answer turned out to be physical fitness. The brigade thought Petraeus was joking, until the colonel began leading his soldiers through an intensive 75-minute exercise drill every morning. And soon his point became clear: The workouts drove the brigade to greater alertness and energy, as well as more pride in themselves and their unit.

As Gallagher puts it, "Self-discipline and being able to perform under pressure and exist outside our comfort zone would be the key that unlocked our success."

The word "exercise" derives from a Latin root that means "to maintain, to keep, to hold off." To me, that means I should exercise to maintain my health, to keep my sanity and to ward off the temptations that lead me down unhealthy paths. I spend at least 60 minutes a day walking, jogging, swimming or lifting weights.

What we consider "exercise" today is really a natural part of life, but in our current world, we have to make a conscious effort to make it part of our daily routine. Just a few generations ago, walking was a major form of transportation! Our evolution from hunters and gatherers, who walked to get from one area to another, to a sedentary automobile/train/plane civilization has forced us to look at exercise in a different way... continued in link above

[ElectricPenguin]

The PT standards are fine. If you run every other day for a month, you will pass the mile run. It's pathetic that people are complaining about it. Fitness is one of the most important things within CAP, cadets are training to be part of the AF right?

[HGjunkie]

cadets are training to be part of the AF right?

Not a lot of cadets i've met actually want to go AF. I've met a lot of cadets who want to be Marines and Army though.

[coudano]

MOST of my cadets don't go into the military at all.

[Ron1319]

Encourage NCC/Color Guard/Drill Team Competition participation and those cadets will be motivated to improve their mile times.  That motivation is contagious.  I think the gap between male and female times is greater than it should be.  NCC gives 1:30 to the girls times, and I'd like to see that gap be matched in the PFT requirements.