PT standards lowering

[lordmonar]

Welll....like I said....I would rather spend more time doing leadership execises then just doing PT.....YMMV.

I disagree that PT is "paramount"......I think you need to look at 52-16 and see what is supposed to be paramount in the cadet program....and with that I am out...becuase I'm getting angry.

And just to continue the cirularity,
PT *IS* leadership exercise.
or you're doing it wrong.

Not saying that it is not......and I am not advocating eliminating the PT requirment from the CP.........I am saying that in my experince we are loosing too many cadets becasue they will not/can not pass the bloody CPFT.

I am suggesting two changes....one is minor compared the end state....the other is a major change...but only affects around 5% of the cadets.

[NelsonJM]

looking through this, i note two different sides: one, which wishes for lower standards, and the other, which is for current and increasing future standards. now, honestly, obesity is neither a motivation problem, not is it an unavoidable medical condition. i'm not saying people who do poorly on pt are unmotivated, but often, it may be that they do not know the capability of their body. does that make sense? ah, take, for example, wrestling. when you give all in a match, you are rewarded with the objective of wrestling: control. you can have control over your effort, no matter what. when you have room to improve, you have a goal to work towards: controlling your opponent more and more effectively.
you see, PT is NOT about separating the fit from the not, but rather about building self discipline, and aiming towards a higher goal, in addition to the betterment of the individual cadet.
additionally, PT is fun, and being a "fit" person is truly rewarding, you have more energy, you do better in school, you have more control over your effort and body, and, best of all, you get the [insert gender of your choice here]s (trust me, all have been expirienced by the author, who was rather sedentary before this fall)
that aside, i love PT and CPFT because it is fun; it was the highlight of my day at encampment, and wrestling practice is the great thing aboout going to school, and my advanced PE is just the bomb.

[Perez]

I'm noticing a trend here. We have a standard that we need to get people to meet, but the problem is that they usually don't. In this case, we have cadets who can't pass their CPFT. So what do we do? Either we change our methods, or we lower the standards. Unfortunately I have seen people advocate for the latter far too often. The standard isn't the problem, so instead of taking a step backwards, I think we should change how we coach cadets. I've seen a lot of cadets who struggle to pass their first PT test come back two months later and pass with flying colors. In almost all of these cases, it was because either another person, or the entire unit got behind them. Doing PT once a week won't get you in shape, but it can do wonders in teaching proper exercise habits and building esprit de corps.

[Pylon]

Well...that's the rub....CAP CP is a leadership program first and foremost.......so I have a problem with giving up LEADERSHIP time for PT.

I think you'll find they are equal components of the cadet program.  Just because the Cadet Program has decided to rain resources down upon the aerospace education and leadership components and leave us with a dearth of any substantive or new content for the other three components doesn't mean they're supposed to be lesser aspects.

[AngelWings]

The PT standards can get high if you hold a competitive physical game, make teams, and fun stuff like that. Right now I am working on making two offical teams not based on flight or staff, for PT fun.

[Walkman]

My previous unit in UTWG had excellent PT scores across the board. PT was a part of every weekly meeting except Blues night. Cadets that struggled were worked with and coached well by senior cadets. It was a point of unit pride and cohesion to work together on being fit. In fact,  we were well known in the wing for being in better shape overall than just about anyone. What made it happen was everyone consistently working together and cadet leaders doing an impressive job of mentoring and motivating.

I'll never forget one CPFT I was overseeing. We had this one uber-cadet that wanted to see what his absolute max on push-ups was. I was hesitant at first to let him keep going, but I gave in to the cadets who were cheering him on. He did over 200 push-ups in one sitting without stopping. That same year the RMR color guard team that went to NCC was made up of all my unit's cadets and our c/CC won the mile run by a pretty decent margin.

It was part of the squadron culture for the cadets. Another thing that made it work so well was there were no Gunny Hartmans. There was encouragement, but no one was smoked. That c/CC that won the mile at NCC would stay back and run with the slowest cadet encouraging them the whole way.

[TJT__98]

I hope they don't lower the CPFT standards. The reason I feel that way is that I find written/online tests easy and PT more difficult so it is my main challenge in CAP. I think if they lowered the standards then I would feel that there was less value to promotions and as a result I (and maybe others) may end up leaving the program.

[Майор Хаткевич]

You have effectively taken only 3 tests in CAP on Leadership. If you find it easy great! They get harder.

[Walkman]

I hope they don't lower the CPFT standards. The reason I feel that way is that I find written/online tests easy and PT more difficult so it is my main challenge in CAP. I think if they lowered the standards then I would feel that there was less value to promotions and as a result I (and maybe others) may end up leaving the program.

This is another part of the equation. We want the cadet program to stretch people. It should be harder to be a cadet than just an average teen going to school. We want the cadets to set their sights high and then achieve tough goals. Lowering PT standards does neither.

[lordmonar]

I hope they don't lower the CPFT standards. The reason I feel that way is that I find written/online tests easy and PT more difficult so it is my main challenge in CAP. I think if they lowered the standards then I would feel that there was less value to promotions and as a result I (and maybe others) may end up leaving the program.

This is another part of the equation. We want the cadet program to stretch people. It should be harder to be a cadet than just an average teen going to school. We want the cadets to set their sights high and then achieve tough goals. Lowering PT standards does neither.

I would but that to a point....but how much higher the adverage?

[TJT__98]

You have effectively taken only 4 tests in CAP on Leadership and six in aerospace. If you find it easy great! They get harder.

The bold is mine (I passed all phases of the model rocketry program). While the above is very true I am able to remember things I read very well, I read the book and I can pass the test. The only time this failed me was when I took my WB exam and accidentaly took the wrong test (after I passed (with the right books) we looked at the books I had studied in the first place and we couldn't find the correct answers to the questions I missed in them at all). I know they will get harder but until then that statement I made will remain true.

I hope they don't lower the CPFT standards. The reason I feel that way is that I find written/online tests easy and PT more difficult so it is my main challenge in CAP. I think if they lowered the standards then I would feel that there was less value to promotions and as a result I (and maybe others) may end up leaving the program.

This is another part of the equation. We want the cadet program to stretch people. It should be harder to be a cadet than just an average teen going to school. We want the cadets to set their sights high and then achieve tough goals. Lowering PT standards does neither.

I would but that to a point....but how much higher the adverage?

I think they are fine as they are now, I guess I am weird like that, I don't even care wether or not we get ABUs 

[Майор Хаткевич]

They allow taking AE ahead?

WBA is a rehash of 1-3,  so I don't count it as new material.

[TJT__98]

They allow AE ahead?

No sir, they don't, I took the C/A1C, C/SrA and C/TSgt AE tests (one each) I am just waiting to be pinned for C/TSgt. And the model rocketry program has three phases with one written test for each phase.

WBA is a rehash of 1-3,  so I don't count it as new material.

Okay, good point.

[Майор Хаткевич]

They allow AE ahead?

No sir, they don't, I took the C/A1C, C/SrA and C/TSgt AE tests (one each) I am just waiting to be pinned for C/TSgt. And the model rocketry program has three phases with one written test for each phase.

WBA is a rehash of 1-3,  so I don't count it as new material.

Okay, good point.

You said SIX AE...

[ßτε]

They allow AE ahead?

No sir, they don't, I took the C/A1C, C/SrA and C/TSgt AE tests (one each) I am just waiting to be pinned for C/TSgt. And the model rocketry program has three phases with one written test for each phase.

WBA is a rehash of 1-3,  so I don't count it as new material.

Okay, good point.

You said SIX AE...

3 AE achievement tests + 3 AE model rocketry test = 6 AE tests

[Майор Хаткевич]

I got that. But those are Rocketry tests. Just as when I specified only 3 LEADERSHIP tests, I specifically excluded AE because the two are apples to oranges.

The point stands that even under the old L2K books, things got harder over time. The same is true for L2L, so saying that the baseline tests aimed at younger cadets are easy doesn't reflect on the tests that are coming up.

[inactive123]

Pt standards are where they need to be. If a cadet is unable to pass the test they should work out and keep on trying. If they can't within a year, they should  quite. CAP isn't for everybody just like go the Air Force isn't for everybody either.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Pt standards are where they need to be. If a cadet is unable to pass the test they should work out and keep on trying. If they can't within a year, they should  quite. CAP isn't for everybody just like go the Air Force isn't for everybody either.

Quite what?

Unlike the Air Force, CAP is obligated to accept pretty much everyone.

[lordmonar]

Not to mention the AIMS of the CAP CP is to help everyone become better citizens not just the ones who meet some arbirary idea of "good enough". That has always been my argument about lowering the CPFP standards in the first place....we can't dedicate enough time to really help them improve.....and we loose them becuase they hit a wall and then just quit.

We loose...because we loose our chance to mold cadets and the cadets loose.

[Jaison009]

I am a 29 year old male, former C/LTC rejoining CAP after a few years away. I have always been a bigger guy and took a lot of heat for it growing up (especially as an Army brat). I joined CAP in 1996 when I was 12 and stayed in until 20 when I just could not keep up with it anymore. I never took my Spaatz due to the PT standards. I knew I could pass all of the tests EXCEPT the mile run. I was too embarrassed to try to get a medical release and did not want to be seen as weak. I also did not want to live with the knowledge that I only promoted due to the fact that I did so unfairly.

I always felt ashamed that I could not do PT to the degree of many of my cadets. A lot of that was my personal fault and I take responsibility for that. I did NOT give up though. Even if I could not do it as well as my cadets I was there with them. They watched me exert myself running to the point of vomiting after most runs (in the lovely climate of Fairbanks, Alaska) or having to take a few more minutes to recover. If we were doing pt as motivation or corrective action, I did it with them.

As a cadet I knew the standards and worked towards them. The standards were a benchmark for me to work towards. While I would love to have a Spaatz number on a certificate, I don't.  I know that I could have killed myself doing it, but I ran out of time and that is okay too. I would rather my former cadets be able to remember the kind of officer I was all around than the fact that I wore three diamonds. Even though I did not meet that standard for Spaatz, I am proud of what I accomplished and what CAP allowed me to get out of it.

My time in CAP laid a foundation that led me to be an Emergency Trauma Tech @ 15, Volunteer FF @ 17, EMT-B @ 18, and into an emergency management course at Arkansas Tech. This led me through a varied career as a dispatcher/detention officer, volunteer firefighter, EMT, Paramedic, County EM director, and a disaster manager for 14 counties with the American Red Cross and books of certifications and certificates. That is what I got out of this program.

That is why I am coming back to CAP. I do not have a lot of time, but I am willing to give back because this program gave me so much. This program taught me so much more than the PT program and while it has its place, there is so much more for cadets to soak up in the few years they have. I think this is where the organization needs to be focusing.

Let's face it; most youth today lack a strong moral compass. This is where the character development can make a difference in someone's life. For students who are uninterested in school, the Aerospace Education and other portions of the cadet program can improve this. For cadets with no structure at home, this is a place where drill and ceremonies, uniforms, rank, grade, and organizational culture can provide belonging. The cadet program can be an introduction to vocations and passions for cadets. It can provide an opportunity that they may have never had (orientation flights, emergency services, disaster relief, etc.).

This is what CAP COULD/CAN be when its leadership understands the true impact they can have on lives.