On the state of cadet promotions

[Ron1319]

First, my own experience was not going away to a "tech school."  I went to a 5-year engineering program at a major accredited University and lived on or near campus.  Of course I had a million things pulling for my attention, but I prioritized the same (as Ned pointed out) as I do in my life, now.  Part of the engineering program was a mandatory co-op (internship) program where I moved from Cincinnati to Raleigh, NC for 7 months out of the year.  I was involved with drill team primarily while I was still in Ohio and while in Raleigh I was an advisor at the squadron at RDU the first year and then the second year one of the seniors (LtC Langley who is now director of ops for MER, I think) asked me to be the cadet commander of a new unit he was starting, so I had a 2nd opportunity to be cadet commander.

To answer where I went, at 21 I lost my diamonds and wasn't very active as a new senior.  I moved to California and never really got involved with a unit out here.  I got involved with such things as being an engineer for Intel, auto racing, swing dancing, starting my own business.. the list goes on and on.  I still genuinely believe that even a "super senior" is not nearly as effective as a senior cadet officer.  The younger cadets look at you entirely differently.

Next I want to address the post that basically said, "Your unit has so many cadets and seniors and we just couldn't do that with a smaller unit."  Our unit didn't have nearly as many cadets a year ago.  The unit does have the distinct advantage of having the positive influence now of my sister, her husband and my support.  That said, I biggest things we've done that have been to encourage the cadets, help set goals, and to give them more opportunities to work with other cadets in the group through drill team and CAC.  The unit did have some excellent seniors when we joined, but only about 12 cadets attending meetings.  The Great Start program was already sitting there for us to implement, and we encouraged them to go promote.  They got excited by the first batch of 12 or so new cadets and after they finished Great Start, they went and got another 12 or so.  We've been running Great Start programs approximately every 8-10 weeks and we're going to continue to do that.  We have another recruiting drive planned for January.  We're trying to figure out what the prize will be for the cadet who recruits the 100th cadet. 

We're having some attrition, but we're averaging about 40 cadets in attendance at a meeting in three flights.  Our influx of new cadets continuously outweighs our attrition.  The process basically involved making the entire cadet membership at the time the new staff and we're finally seeing a year later the new cadets from a year go start to take leadership roles.  If we're successful we'll need more cadets in order to have cadet staff positions for the new leaders that are coming up the pipe.

My personal business is the largest swing dancing business on the West Coast.  You can see more at www.MidtownStomp.com if you're interested.  Prior to starting our dance, the accepted norm in Sacramento for a swing dance was 50 dancers and the dance would dwindle and die after a year or so.  We average 300+ dancers/week and have an awesome 6,000 square foot ballroom that was built for swing in the 1920's.  We are ALWAYS advertising, flyering, and doing new things to bring in new dancers.  And we throw a party. 

I think there are many more parallels to my dance rather than to the nightmarish banking industry.  I don't see any reason why any unit can't grow year round.  I don't see any reason why attendance at meetings should be cyclic.  We've had a constant influx of new cadets all year and we haven't noted a dramatic decrease in attendance at any time during the year.  You can argue that I haven't been back long enough to see it yet, but I am not going to accept it as a given that it will happen and just expect it to happen.  I don't happen to believe that if you will it to be that it will happen, but in this case, if we planned for it and expected it to happen, it would.

Ned, I love the ideas of making the program systematically more accessible to cadets who are away at college.  As far as the program not being designed around college students, I believe that my sister, her husband and I all agree that we got more from CAP after 18 than we did before 18. 

I really want to address these two things specifically:

1)  A lot of squadrons are in rural areas, and there simply aren't that  many people around to join CAP, even if you maximize your draw from the community.

There are less things in rural areas to compete with.  You honestly don't get much more rural than Placerville, CA.  We're at least 20 minutes from the furthest-out Sacramento suburb and we are in the foothills.  The population of Placerville is 9,610 according to the first Google result that I found.  We do draw from surrounding communities as far away as El Dorado Hills which is about 20 minutes away and has a larger population (~20,000).  This is the same argument that could be used to explain why the Bay Area has such a large swing dancing community and Sacramento could never have as large of a dance as SF.  I run a dance weekly that draws 2x the largest SF dance.

2)  There is a maximum number of cadets that a unit can sustain based on the number of senior members willing to work with cadets, and *most* squadrons can't get or sustain "a lot" of senior member support.  I prefer a ratio of 1:6 but you can get away with a few more if your senior members are being "superman".  The big problem with that is when superman leaves, moves away, takes a job at wing, or whatever, then the squadron collapses into the void left behind.

Why would you need one senior for every 6 cadets?  What advantage does a senior have over a Phase IV cadet?  I still only see it as a disadvantage being a Capt instead of being a c/Col.  Our unit does have senior support, but in terms of seniors who are specifically active in growing the cadet program, we have 4 who are extremely active and another 4-5 that are supportive but who do not attend very regularly.  I don't know what we would do with a few more seniors.  Note that I'm not saying less leadership.  I'm just saying that if you really have a problem finding more seniors that want to be active in the program, the leadership can be supplemented by senior cadet leadership.  The last time I was a cadet commander it was essentially two seniors and me running the program, and we build a unit of 25 cadets in 6 months, complete with ES training, active ES participation and promoting cadets.

The other thing is that it appears you did exactly that - made Spaatz and then left CAP for a prolonged period, and when you came back it was in another wing.  How are you different from all the other cadets who do the same thing every year?  Namely take what they can from CAP and then high-tail it for a decade or two?

I sort of already addressed this, but I want to address it directly.  I wore my diamonds for two years and was active during that time.  That's specifically the difference between what you describe and my case.  At 21 I left the program and I would love to address retention of 21 year old Spaatzen, or 21 year old cadets.  I haven't given that enough consideration to have ideas on how to improve the retention.  Further, they high-tail it and generally don't come back.  I'm back.  Probably for a long time.  I am attempting to build something that will not rely on my being there.

Ron, are you *SURE* you aren't running a promotion mill?

Yes, I'm sure.  I think just the case where the cadet staff has to now plan for three flights (the next cadet staff, the 1-3 stripe cadets and the great start cadets) is enough to ensure this.  However, in the case where we have cadets who have been members for as long as 5 years and don't have very much grade to show for it, there is some catching up that needs to happen for some of them.  I have an 18 (almost 19) year old c/CMSgt who I wish I could pin c/Maj on.  He's good.  Really good.  He was halted with two stripes for way too long.  We figured out at NCC that he can get his Spaatz approximately a month before his 21st birthday and he's not missed a beat since. 

Here is the thought I've been working with for a while.  How far in terms of leadership development can a cadet go with 5 or 6 stripes?  We were at the CAWG Cadet Program Conference last year and instructing a class.  We were having a round table discussion with the cadets and my brother-in-law asked the cadets if they felt that they could get everything out of the cadet program as NCO's.  One of them said "yes."  That, or statements that I perceive to mean that, is where my perceived tone that I believe that I know better is coming from.  I think the point about a c/LtC at encampment looking at a different response when applying for staff positions was lost in the details.  Being a Phase IV cadet doesn't just mean wearing the grade.  It means starting to understand executive leadership, long term planning and leadership of larger groups of cadets.  I didn't mean to imply that they would automatically be given some position, or that they had it coming and that nobody would dare overlook them.  What I mean is that in my experience cadets gain a certain skill set on the way to c/LtC that I don't see them gaining at c/SMSgt.  They have different opportunities. 

If I need to make the point further, how many cadets with 5 stripes do these things:

1) Chair the National CAC
2) Command an NCC team at national competition
3) Attend IACE
4) Attend COS
5) Command a wing encampment

The list goes on, but I hope I've made the point that without the grade they're not going to have the opportunities.  I understand that passing the tests and automatically getting promoted does not grow leadership, but we're getting them out there and involved.  My brother in law started this, too, which although in it's infancy gives them more opportunities for training and leadership outside the unit.

http://gp5.cawg.cap.gov/node/110

[A.Member]

Our program does indeed appreciate the critical changes that take place and adjusts the curricula as the cadets progress.

I'm not convinced that it does. 

To illustrate, what advanced AE material exists to challenge our older/more advanced cadets?  The AEX II material is not even robust enough to satisfy most early high school cadets.  There is a lot of unexplored opportunity in the STEM arena, although it potentially raises questions as to instructor availability for truly advanced topics.

From a leadership perspective, once a cadet earns their Mitchell, learning opportunities are not significantly different/unique in most cases.   This probably explains why so many cadets stall out after this achievement. 

...But any suggestion that our CP is somehow only suitable for middle and high school students is short sighted and inaccurate.  I certainly agree that a relatively small percentage of our cadets are over 18, but it is an age group where we do some of our best work.  This is where we see future leaders truly blossom as cadet commanders, activity commanders, CAC leaders, and as mentors to younger cadets.

I don't mean to minimize the conflicting priorities that older cadets face, but we have a great deal to offer our 18-21 year olds, whether they are college freshmen or the assistant manager at Radio Shack.

(It is kinda like the competing priorities that every one of our seniors face, isn't it?)

No, it's not at all.   

The difference is that seniors have already worked through that portion of their life.  They are now established/in a routine and can now look to fill a void/desire.  This probably explains why we have so few senior members under age 30 as well.   

Our cadets on the other hand are young people now looking to establish themselves in the real world and exploring their new found freedoms.  You need look no further than one of your first statements above as evidence to this.   If the program is truly so compelling to older cadets, why do they not stay active?...why are they such a small percentage of our membership?

Advanced cadets do advanced work, entirely suitable for where they are in their lives. 

How so?  What advanced work is so significantly different or value add?  There are only so many o-flights, encampments, cadet competitions, etc.  I have cadets that are 14-15 years old that have already cycled through those activities a couple times and are already becoming leaders in those activities.   Now, fast forward 3 - 4 more years down the road...how will the program keep them engaged?

My modest suggestion was to address the accessibility issues you identified.  It is hard for a cadet going away school to engage and participate.  Local units near major universities have trouble integrating "visiting cadet officers" effectively without negatively impacting their home-grown troops.  I've seen it work well, but it is a difficult issue.

I'm just trying to get the best of both worlds - keep our older cadets engaged where possible, which should modestly increase our ability to retain them as they turn 21.  This in turn helps provide more experienced CP leaders for the next generation of cadets who would benefit from our training.

I understand what you're trying to do and as I stated earlier, I truly appreciate the thought and effort.  My intent is not to be a nay-sayer and I hope my observations and experience are wrong.   I'd love for your idea to take off.   However, there is also the realistic side to me that observes and hears what cadets are saying.  I find cadets thrive on challenge and new experiences.  That challenge and those experiences begin to escape them at a certain point - or at least replaced by other opportunities.  I don't know the solution but I do know that a void exists and at least you're probing ideas in an attempt to resolve it.

[Eclipse]

To answer where I went, at 21 I lost my diamonds and wasn't very active as a new senior.  I moved to California and never really got involved with a unit out here.  I got involved with such things as being an engineer for Intel, auto racing, swing dancing, starting my own business.. the list goes on and on.

You've just answered your own question as to why CAP is cyclical and why we lose older cadets and seniors - people
decide they want to do "other" or have to do "other".

I'm sorry, but you dropped from the program for about ten years and then come back acting like a typical Spaatz cadet - "We could do so much better if we 'x', and 'x' is so simple, why aren't we doing it?"

Because "x" takes people to do it.

There is no magic answer to older cadet retention until there is more incentive to stick around.

Another factor is that CAP success is not system-based, but personality-based, as are most volunteer organizations.  You indicate that the success is due to you and your family.  Wonderful - FYI, you don't scale, and assuming your own personal growth, you will leave at some point and move on to "other", which means the unit's continued success will be solely dependent on the random people you are able to recruit.

As to Ned's idea of remote membership.  No thank you.  CAP is not a correspondence school, the majority of the real value is in personal, in-face participation.  Either you are there or you aren't.

If you want to fix this - start lighting up real units at these colleges, not letting cadets click through more presentations and pretend to listen to podcasts.

The program is already slipping towards watered-down with online open-book testing, you start making this a remote learning program and in 5 years you will have hundreds of home-schooled Spaatz cadets and squadrons that exist nowhere but on paper.

I agree with your main point, that running a good, consistent,  program is the key to a unit's success.  The ability to do that in the current model is not as simple a you propose.

[davidsinn]

1)  A lot of squadrons are in rural areas, and there simply aren't that  many people around to join CAP, even if you maximize your draw from the community.

There are less things in rural areas to compete with.  You honestly don't get much more rural than Placerville, CA.  We're at least 20 minutes from the furthest-out Sacramento suburb and we are in the foothills.  The population of Placerville is 9,610 according to the first Google result that I found.  We do draw from surrounding communities as far away as El Dorado Hills which is about 20 minutes away and has a larger population (~20,000).  This is the same argument that could be used to explain why the Bay Area has such a large swing dancing community and Sacramento could never have as large of a dance as SF.  I run a dance weekly that draws 2x the largest SF dance.

You need to get out more. My entire county only has just over twice the people your town does and we're not the worst in the state. We are 20 miles from a Walmart. I personally live 10 minutes from any kind of fast food. As for less things to take time in rural areas you need to watch less hollywood. In my unit we have had conflicts with sports, 4H, church, family obligations, school clubs, jobs and the list goes on. It is cyclical because of school. Everything here revolves around the school calendar. It is very difficult to run a program that is attractive to outsiders when it's 0 and windy outside because you're stuck inside at your meetings for months. In the spring and fall we can do orides and show recruits what they can do when they join. We can demonstrate drill. We can do a lot when it's warm that we can't do when it's very cold and snowy.

Around these parts for encampment it's July, August or thanks to Eclipse's hard work, April. Until you can ship them off to encampment you haven't really hooked them yet so you have to time your drives to put them at encampment when they are still new but actually ready to go.

[Eclipse]

You're drawing people from 20 minutes away!?!?!  In these parts it takes 20 minutes to get to a major expressway!

You're less than an hour to Sacramento, that isn't "remote" that is typical in my wing outside the major metro area.
In the Midwest  we have units that are 3 hours from >anything< that resembles a major city, and then "major" is subjective.

[Ned]

How so?  What advanced work is so significantly different or value add?  There are only so many o-flights, encampments, cadet competitions, etc.  I have cadets that are 14-15 years old that have already cycled through those activities a couple times and are already becoming leaders in those activities.   Now, fast forward 3 - 4 more years down the road...how will the program keep them engaged?

That's easy.

14-15 year old cadets are among our most enthusiastic encampment participants - as a basic flight member, or perhaps as flight sergeant.

I can only agree that an 19 year old is not really going to get much out of repeating the basic encampment experience.  But as an upper-level cadet staff member, the 19 year old is going to learn and do things that most college students can only dream about.

First, actually commanding a unit 24/7 for a week.  Whether that is a squadron with a 100 cadets or the whole encampment with a couple hundred, that cadet is going to learn far more leadership in a controlled but intense environment then they are ever going to learn by taking Psych 137 (The Psychology of Leadership) M, W, F from 0900 to 1000 in Room 516 in Reichow Hall.

Second, the cadet will have to actually engage in a full planning cycle for a major event involving hundreds of people.  Budgets, supplies, logistics, coordination with other staff elements, etc.  Not much of which occurs while participating in the UC skateboarding club.

If the encampment experience is too narrow, consider the CAC.  The CAC is the only place in CAP where we teach committee leadership.  Most cadets don't go into the military, of course, but every single one of us is going to wind up on committees at some point in our lives - quality improvement committees at work, stewardship committees for church, condo boards, school boards, PTSA, neighborhood watch, etc. ,etc. etc.

This is important stuff that relates directly to the real world. (Indeed, one need only watch a NB webstream to see how much CAC training would benefit our senior members as well.    )

Older cadets become key CAC leaders, serving at higher levels and as council officers.

Advanced cadets can and do perform important, high level work, at the group and wing level supporting CP officers and DCPs.  I've seen some incredible work prepared by some of our PIV cadets to advance our program.

I could go on for a while, but let me simply note that I agree that if all the 19 year old does is what she/he did when they were 14-15, you are absolutely right.  They will leave.  And they should.  Heck, I figure I have pretty much done my "drill around the parking lot until the next class starts at 2000 hours" bit.  If someone told me that was my job in CAP, I'd leave too.

It is clearly a leadership challenge to keep all of our cadets active and engaged, regardless of their time in the program.  It is up to dedicated seniors like you to specifically reach out to the older cadets and make sure that they are learning and progressing in the program.

I clearly understand that if you have a squadron with 20 cadets under the age of 16 and a couple of random 19 and 20 year olds, that most of your attention and effort will be devoted to making sure the program works for the majority of your cadets.  But that does not relieve you of the responsibility to reach out and engage the older cadets.  You may need to work with your colleagues at the wing, group, and region level to do so, but all of our cadets deserve our skill and attention.

[Ron1319]

We actually have several cadets going to the Oregon winter encampment.  It's cool that we can do that out here.  As far as getting out more, I grew up in small town Ohio and that's where my original squadron was.  We had snow and we still had solid attendance in the winter.  We weren't as big as we are now, here, but still solid and growing year around.  If you really are that entirely population limited, then your squadron size will be smaller and the issues you face in growing phase IV cadets would be different.  I don't see that as making the point any less valid.  I don't believe that anyone has to accept a cyclic nature to CAP.  Adopt an "If you're not growing you're dying" philosophy and continue to recruit.

As far as coming back and acting like a typical Spaatz cadet, what happened to everybody else where they DON'T believe that given "x" you can accomplish "y?"  That with "x" things would be better.  We are.  We have.  We will continue to do so.  It'd be entirely different if I were 21 and hadn't accomplished anything outside of CAP, but my point is that I have the same attitude in my business and know that it works.  We've accomplished a lot in the last year, and I don't see it as requiring our involvement in the future.  As I said, we're working on training the group.  We don't plan to abandon the squadron, but we are going bigger in our scope.  The idea is to build a system and leaders that continues to grow so that losing some people doesn't cause a dramatic decline.

That same exact situation happens in the swing dancing world.  You have some of your best dancers stop dancing, or move to another city.  You don't cry and accept that your dance will fail, you train more dancers all of the time so that as people leave there are people there to take their place and you provide something great enough that as new dancers move to the area they want to be a part of your dance.  It's an exact analogy, in case anyone missed that.

If we accepted complacency, and I'm reading "cyclic" as a code word for "allowing failure," then yes, exactly what you're suggesting will happen.  I'll go one step further and explain that my swing dancing business is aided dramatically by having observed this cyclic nature in CAP, and we take steps all of the time to prevent the down turns.

There seems to be a constant undertone from the nay-sayers in this thread that CAP sucks, nobody really would want to do it or stick with it, and that there is nothing for a cadet over 18.  Like I said, the majority of what I got out of CAP happened after 18.  With the attitude prevalent here, it's apparent that those cadets are not being encouraged to grab those opportunities. 

Let me tell you that there is a huge difference between being a squadron commander at an encampment and being the encampment cadet commander.  I already listed some other opportunities for cadets over 18, but the list goes on.  Mission Scanner and Observer, for instance, become available to cadets at 18.  I was active in both.  I was a ground team leader and actually had real sorties as the GTL as a cadet.  It's like pulling teeth trying to find a trainer for mission scanner and observer who will actually sit down and do pre-reqs here in NorCal, though.  We're working on solving that problem, too.

[Ron1319]

You're drawing people from 20 minutes away!?!?!  In these parts it takes 20 minutes to get to a major expressway!

You're less than an hour to Sacramento, that isn't "remote" that is typical in my wing outside the major metro area.
In the Midwest  we have units that are 3 hours from >anything< that resembles a major city, and then "major" is subjective.

Where are you?  I grew up outside of Dayton, Ohio.  Major cities in Ohio are only an hour and a half apart, and are primarily population centers of 500,000-1.5M people.  I'm willing to concede wholeheartedly that we would not be able to succeed in the middle of nowhere.  I don't believe you originally said isolated, I believe the word was "rural."

Oh, and brilliant post, Ned.  I agree with every word.   I have this feeling that we're going to get a response that says, "There is no CAC in BFE."  I'm going to shrug and say that I'm not in BFE and don't believe that most of the CAP membership is.  If that didn't make anyone reading laugh out loud, then they really don't get my sense of humor.

[Eclipse]

Where are you?  I grew up outside of Dayton, Ohio.  Major cities in Ohio are only an hour and a half apart, and are primarily population centers of 500,000-1.5M people.  I'm willing to concede wholeheartedly that we would not be able to succeed in the middle of nowhere.  I don't believe you originally said isolated, I believe the word was "rural."

ILWG, where everyone live North of 80 and beyond is a lot of farm.  Rural but not isolated is irrelevant to CAP.  We've got lots of rural around here that go more than 20 minutes everything.  Rural and isolated is where the issue is.

Oh, and brilliant post, Ned.  I agree with every word.   I have this feeling that we're going to get a response that says, "There is no CAC in BFE." 

CAC is such a non-factor in most wings, and many whole regions, that if CAC or NCC is your only hook to keeping older cadets, you're already cooked.   The average 19 year old is not going to stay in CAP for a quarterly pizza party or teleconference where a bunch of younger cadets argue about cord colors.

[Ron1319]

ES?  Mission Scanner and Observer, Ground Team 1, 2, 3, GTL? 

Defunct CAC in whole regions isn't good, but that's not exactly my job.

That still also leaves encampment opportunities, something fabricated like our group training academy, and the whole list of national special activities.  I'd consider the top of that list to be COS, NCC and IACE.

[Ned]

The average 19 year old is not going to stay in CAP for a quarterly pizza party or teleconference where a bunch of younger cadets argue about cord colors.

I absolutely agree.

Which is why it is your responsibility and mine to make sure that they have far, far more to do that eat pizza and argue cord colors.

Commanders and senior CP staffers have the absolute responsibility to train and engage the CAC.  Which is NOT an optional part of our program.  If Wing and Region Commanders allow a significant part of their program to wither and die because they don't attend to it as they should, then shame on them.

And by extension, it must be up to people like me to come up with senior commander performance metrics that ensures that commanders pay attention to their CACs or suffer measureable consequences if they do not.

Thats why we get the big paychecks. 

[Eclipse]

ES?  Mission Scanner and Observer, Ground Team 1, 2, 3, GTL?

All good ideas, and may keep the cadet around, but don't do much for your program as a whole, nor will they help a cadet progress.

[Eclipse]

Commanders and senior CP staffers have the absolute responsibility to train and engage the CAC.  Which is NOT an optional part of our program.  If Wing and Region Commanders allow a significant part of their program to wither and die because they don't attend to it as they should, then shame on them.

This is old road, but I doubt it is news to anyone here that the CAC is pretty dysfunctional and lacking any real mission or direction.

Citing WIWAC doesn't change that.  The world and CAP were night and day different in the mid nineties.

[Ron1319]

The world and CAP were night and day different in the mid nineties.

Why?  And I don't think Ned was a cadet in the mid-nineties. <-- that was a joke by the way

And why do you think that ES participation will not contribute to the program as a whole and to cadet progress?

[Ned]

This is old road, but I doubt it is news to anyone here that the CAC is pretty dysfunctional and lacking any real mission or direction.

I accept your admission that your CAC is "pretty dysfunctional and lacks any real mission or direction."

I'm a little surprised that any CAP commander would admit that, but I figure you know best.

The question then becomes, what are you going to do about it?

If your first impulse is to answer "nothing because I think the program is flawed" ask yourself if you would accept an answer like that from your Safety Officer who had chosen not to comply with existing regulations?

(I'm only going by what I read on CT, but some have suggested that the CAP safety program is less than perfect and unevenly enforced.)

Acceptable answers include things like:

"Hey, group cadet program officer.  I am unsatisfied with our CAC.  It appears to be dysfunctional.  That is, of course, unacceptable.  I want you to know that the CAC program is important to me as a commander and I am directing you to place emphasis on this within the group until it is functioning correctly."

"Hey, Group CAC chair.  I imagine you must be pretty disappointed in how it is going.  As you know, a highly successful CAC is pretty important to me; as I'm sure it must be to you.  What can I do to better resource this valuable program?"

"Hey, Boss (Wing Commander).  Sir/ Ma'am, I know how imporant an effective CAC is to you, but frankly the wing CAC seems a little underperforming at this point.  Would you like me to work up a "How to Have a Successful CAC" presentation for the next Commanders Call?"

"Hey, Boss (Wing Commander).  Ma'am/Sir, I'm sure you remember when you were a group commander and how many different '#1 priorities' you had then and how few resources in time, personnel, and treasure you had to address them.  I'm afraid that I may be letting you down because our CAC is not as functional as we would all like.  But I'm convinced that it is not our fault, but the result of a badly designed program that has been overtaken by the changing demographics and interests of our cadets over the last several decades.  I've drafted a proposed revision to the 52-16 to eliminate this costly and little-used program and I'd like you to introduce it as an agenda item at the next NB meeting.  Until then, of course, I will continue to work as hard as I can to support the existing regulations .. . . "

[Ron1319]

I'm sorry, but you dropped from the program for about ten years and then come back acting like a typical Spaatz cadet - "We could do so much better if we 'x', and 'x' is so simple, why aren't we doing it?"

I'm still mentally stuck on this point a bit.  Other than the modification that it's really a, x, z and all of the letters in between, I don't see why that's a bad thing.  People as a resource can be grown and it's our job to develop them.  I've given multiple examples of how we're working on that.  I'd like to again point out that I'm 32, not 21.  I've done a lot in that time including customer visits to Korea to sign $100M corporate deals, domestic design-win deals with $1B impact, some corporate hiring, account management, project management, getting married, and staffing and growing my own business.  I'm not just dreaming in a box.

[Ron1319]

Around these parts for encampment it's July, August or thanks to Eclipse's hard work, April. Until you can ship them off to encampment you haven't really hooked them yet so you have to time your drives to put them at encampment when they are still new but actually ready to go.

Are you implementing Great Start?
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P052_009_7603F5B468886.pdf

[DakRadz]

I accept your admission...

Bowchickawowwow.

ES?  Mission Scanner and Observer, Ground Team 1, 2, 3, GTL?

All good ideas, and may keep the cadet around, but don't do much for your program as a whole, nor will they help a cadet progress.

Why can't these be side missions/activities? Say you have a ~C/Maj who is beginning to wonder what he's getting out of the program. Say this cadet is very involved but losing steam because mentoring and leading is great, but they can do the same thing in (activity here).
Introduce this cadet to any of these programs to give them something other programs can't- just because mentoring and leading is a wonderful reward, it doesn't mean they can't do the same thing elsewhere, and possibly with less hassle.

Earning those Observer wings is a personal accomplishment that is pretty satisfying- and it complements attending the Mitchell ceremony of a cadet that was mentored for most of their time in CAP by this C/Maj.
That combination of pride and fulfilling their "serve my community, state, and nation" pledge is something that no other civilian/cadet/teen organization I know of can rival.

You cannot simply offer the exact same recipe as JROTC (great for the 3-4 years it's offered, but it can afford to be narrow), Big Brothers and Sisters, or any other volunteer organization, and still expect to be the "Top Dog" of the list of volunteer opportunities simply because cadets earn shinies and wear a uniform- leadership is not exclusively taught by the Civil Air Patrol.
Yes, we have a great program and mission, but if you mean to say that cadets stay with the realm of CP only, the program would not prosper and retain. It would truly become an inconvenient JROTC. And I love both programs.
If used properly, the other opportunities provide that extra motivation to stay in CAP as opposed to something else or nothing at all.

[Eclipse]

^ the simple answer is because those are personal accomplishments, not directly program related, and few units do so much ES as to be able to keep an otherwise exiting C/Maj so engaged as to stay, and even if they were, that C/Maj still needs to be doing the progression work for the privilege of staying in the program.

All this at the same time that as a C/Maj he is supposed to be mentoring other cadets and paying back the program.  I personally this this is one of the many reasons we lose older cadets - the realization that it is payback time for those that came before to those that are coming up.  That doesn't make them bad, per se, it just makes them teenagers.

Getting a struggling cadet into ES may well save that cadet, but it does not a program make.

[DakRadz]

^ the simple answer is because those are personal accomplishments, not directly program related, and few units do so much ES as to be able to keep an otherwise exiting C/Maj so engaged as to stay, and even if they were, that C/Maj still needs to be doing the progression work

At the squadron level, catering just to keep one member? Not at all what I was aiming for.

I was thinking of the Group or Wing level. Introduce cadets to opportunities. If I know not of its existence, how can I participate? I know wings are different from one another, but there is an annual Winter Ex (Frostbite) for GTMs across the state. Recently we had an email go out specifically about 18+ cadets who might be interested in Observer training.

I would not leave CAP for lack of things to do. I will not leave CAP for some years. All of this because my CC merely forwarded some emails when the opportunities existed.
I know that isn't too much to ask.