Should I stay?

[ThorntonOL]

Have been debating on whether to renew or not.
Reasons not to stay:
1. Everyone I knew when i started are just about gone.
2. I learned more about planes in my school work than in CAP.
3. To many seniors in the same specialty tracks.
4. Church provides as much socialization.
5. Did and learned more through school trips than in CAP.
6. Money could be used better elsewhere. (Not enough bang for the buck.)
7. For the price of uniforms I could by three times as many Sunday best.
8. I already have a pastor who does a good job teaching moral leadership.
9. I travel about two hours round trip to meetings for a two and a half hour meeting in which I sit and do pretty much nothing.

Reasons to stay?
1.?
2. ?
3.?

Ironically I don't have any reason to stick with the program, money is better spent elsewhere as is my time.

Anyone one willing to talk me out of this?

[a2capt]

1. Everyone I knew when i started are just about gone.

Thats not a reason for anything by itself, but .. lets see what else is here:

2. I learned more about planes in my school work than in CAP.

Okay, teach some of that to the cadets.  They'll appreciate it.

3. To many seniors in the same specialty tracks.

Tell me it's not AE?

4. Church provides as much socialization.


More socialization isn't a bad thing.

5. Did and learned more through school trips than in CAP.

So, you have experience, bring some of it up, as a project officer, do some of that, arrange it for the unit.

6. Money could be used better elsewhere. (Not enough bang for the buck.)

That might be part of a show stopper, then again, it's a few burgers, coffees' or pizza's. I think it's a great trade off.

7. For the price of uniforms I could by three times as many Sunday best.

After almost a year, I'd presume you have some uniform by now. Also, you can find stuff on eBay, other units, other folks who have moved on, or whatever. Ya don't need 'em all.

8. I already have a pastor who does a good job teaching moral leadership.

How about a second view, then?

9. I travel about two hours round trip to meetings for a two and a half hour meeting in which I sit and do pretty much nothing.

You get out of the program, what you put into it. Thats just the way it is. Become a driver, and steer the unit in a different direction. Sounds like thats what it needs, if you say most everyone has left .. probably for similar reasons.

Chart a course for change.

[Al Sayre]

The first thing I tell new members is that you get out of the organization what you put in.  I also tell them that if you want to fix a problem you have to get close enough to turn the wrench.  So define what you see is the problem, and propose and implement a solution.  If you have a valid concern, take it up with your CC.  He should be willing to listen to all of the members and address their issues as best he can.  Leadership of volunteers is much different than leading employees or military personnel since they can vote with their feet.  You have to provide them an example, and set your standards, they have to be willing to follow that example and meet the standards.  If they don't, then you need to be willing discuss the differences with them and determine a compromise position that will accomplish the mission.

[dwb]

There are always opportunities on the Group and Wing staff if you want to continue to participate in CAP.  No, I'm not joking.   It sounds like you're not getting a lot out of your squadron, but it's not the only charter number you can belong to...

[Major Lord]

You might consider just taking a break. You may have CAP Burnout Syndrome (CBS) Leave for a couple of months, reflect on what you liked doing with CAP, and come back and do the things you liked. Odds are, the Squadron you left will not be the same as the Sq you come back to.

Major Lord

[jeders]

Ironically I don't have any reason to stick with the program, money is better spent elsewhere as is my time.

Anyone one willing to talk me out of this?

I had the same dilemma a few months ago. The only reason I had to stay was, "I'm the Commander and I have to renew." I was just getting burned out on CAP and for the same amount of effort going in, I was getting a lot less out. Now, I've handed over the reins to someone else and am stepping back a little and it's letting me put things into perspective.

My advice would be, first go to your commander and see if there isn't something that can be done or that you can do at the meetings to make it more interesting. If that fails, take a little time off and see if that helps. But no matter what, let your leadership know, one-on-one, that you're not very interested in how things are. The worst thing that happens is when people leave and the leadership has no idea why, and so they can't fix it.

I hope that this helps.

[Pylon]

What?  You're not getting a boatload of camaraderie from CAPTalk?!   

Maybe you do want to take a break.  You could also switch to Patron status during your break so your membership keeps up and you can still attend social functions like Wing Conference, but you're saving on dues money (it's significantly cheaper as a patron) and you won't have to maintain a uniform.

As Dan also suggested above, maybe switch up the scenery.  A new group of people, with new personalities and new potential, and different things to do at the Group or Wing HQ.  If either are within your AOR, consider checking them out too.  Maybe you just need a different unit and different group of people for now. 

[MIKE]

Take a break while keeping your membership up.  Did this twice myself.  First time I took a year or so, then changed squadrons.  Second time I gave it a few years before deciding not to renew.

[RiverAux]

Anyone one willing to talk me out of this?

Nope, if you aren't getting what you need out of the program and aren't willing to step up and try to instigate what you think needs to be happening then nothing anybody can say to you will make it worth your while to stick around. 

[Flying Pig]

Ironically I don't have any reason to stick with the program

I have found CAP has seasons in peoples lives sometimes.  I let my membership lapse and took a complete 5 year break once. Actually, not a break, because I had no intention of rejoining when I let it lapse.  So you never know.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Ironically I don't have any reason to stick with the program

I have found CAP has seasons in peoples lives sometimes.  I let my membership lapse and took a complete 5 year break once. Actually, not a break, because I had no intention of rejoining when I let it lapse.  So you never know.

People seem to burn out for a number of reasons. Some burn out due to lack of interest/activity, I've had burn out points due to high activity. You either stick with it, or you don't.

[Pumbaa]

Just let mine lapse for many of the same reasons, I have no intention on coming back.

Don't need to play military, I am on base everyday and walk and talk with Real Military(TM).

Got tired of the outlay of cash, and then being hamstrung in fund raising.

Uniforms?  I think there are enough threads on that

Only received one call back from a squadron 1.5 hours away when I relocated to another state last summer.  The other squadrons never replied back to my inquiries.  Guess they did not need a qualified observer, CD, Aerial photographer for coastal patrol.  oh yeah PAO, safety, Deputy commander.. I suppose I don't have anything to bring to the table.

If squadron POC's can't make the effort to return phone calls and emails, I don't want to be a part of them.

Nothing for me to learn, I've taught.

Pretty soon i will be deleting my link to CT.

My season is done.

[Flying Pig]

Just let mine lapse for many of the same reasons, I have no intention on coming back.

Don't need to play military, I am on base everyday and walk and talk with Real Military(TM).

Got tired of the outlay of cash, and then being hamstrung in fund raising.

Uniforms?  I think there are enough threads on that

Only received one call back from a squadron 1.5 hours away when I relocated to another state last summer.  The other squadrons never replied back to my inquiries.  Guess they did not need a qualified observer, CD, Aerial photographer for coastal patrol.  oh yeah PAO, safety, Deputy commander.. I suppose I don't have anything to bring to the table.

If squadron POC's can't make the effort to return phone calls and emails, I don't want to be a part of them.

Nothing for me to learn, I've taught.

Pretty soon i will be deleting my link to CT.

My season is done.

Why wait?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Why wait?

^ Just about every post I've seen by Pumbaa is about how he will not be/has not/is happy about not renewing his membership.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Why wait?

^ Just about every post I've seen by Pumbaa is about how he will not be/has not/is happy about not renewing his membership.

... her ...

[Flying Pig]

CAP is a volunteer organization.  Nobody forces anyone to be here or stay.  I will freely admit I am here for my own selfish reasons.  And while my selfishness is being fulfilled, I also do my part for the program itself.  They help me, I help them.
If your not happy with the organization, either change it, accept it, or move on. 

[shorning]

Why wait?

^ Just about every post I've seen by Pumbaa is about how he will not be/has not/is happy about not renewing his membership.

... her ...

Really???  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg6829#msg6829

[Chappie]

Not here to talk you into staying or out of leaving...the choice is definitely yours.  There have been a couple of occasions when I considered not renewing my membership.  Won't go into the reasons...but there were sufficient grounds to leave.  However, the question was raised by one of my confidents as to why I joined the organization in the first place.  After rattling off several reasons, the question posed was "Has any of those changed?"  The reasons I joined in the first place were still valid....nothing had changed.  This person also shared that CAP is not a static organization but that it can and does change -- sometimes slowly and other times very quickly.  In all honestly, had I left when I was seriously considering it, I would have missed out some of the best opportunities for service that I have enjoyed in CAP.  "Semper Gumby"

[lordmonar]

Lt Thornton,

Are you a cadet or a senior member?

I ask because it sounds like the program you are in is a cadet program.

While it is not a bad thing for seniors to want to get something out of CAP like aerospace education or character development and socialsation........that is not really the focus of the senior program.

Our main goal IMHO is to develope officers so that they are ready to fulfill the mission.  The question is...which mission/missions do you want to fulfil....and what have you done to help that process along?

Bottom line......if you are not satified with CAP,  take a break.  You can go whole hog and resign, let your membership laps, or even just not show up for awhile...but remain a member.

I take it you are fairly young and you may be reassess your lifes priorties....this is a good thing....but no one here on CT really has enough information to help you make this decision.

Assess what you want out CAP....look to see if there is anywhere in the organisation (up, down or side) that may help fulfill those wants and needs.....if we can't...then it is time to move on.   

[RADIOMAN015]

Gee, I don't see the squadron weekly meetings as the primary indicator of anything, especially at the senior level.  Generally, most of my volunteer staff work is done at home, with the exception of training seniors & cadets on operating the squadron radio stations (as Comm Officer) and maybe taking some pictures for an upcoming article/press release, etc (as PAO).   

As a volunteer you can choose to do what ONLY INTERESTS YOU.  IF you are bored than apparently you are doing something you don't enjoy. You should be doing something you ENJOY.  CAP isn't a job you have to slave at even if you don't like it just to earn a living.

You really don't have to go to the meeting every week.  We have some senior members that show up 1 or 2 times per month and do what they have to do.     Commander's need to certain function done it doesn't necessarily mean a senior member just attend every meeting.

Socially wise, CAP is one social circle, and surely many members will have other circles e.g. work, neighbors, church, etc.

Uniform wise, why not just wear the golf shirt & grey pants, black shoes, etc.   It is still a CAP uniform :angel:.  There's absolutely no reason to have every possible uniform combination, and as everyone knows if you go with the AF type uniforms, there's significant costs when adding various outwear and hats.

RM   

[Rotorhead]

Anyone one willing to talk me out of this?

Nope, if you aren't getting what you need out of the program and aren't willing to step up and try to instigate what you think needs to be happening then nothing anybody can say to you will make it worth your while to stick around.

+1

[High Speed Low Drag]

Why wait?

^ Just about every post I've seen by Pumbaa is about how he will not be/has not/is happy about not renewing his membership.

... her ...

Really???  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=135.msg6829#msg6829

Sorry - my bad.  For some reason I thought he was a she.  Sorry Pumbaa

[O-Rex]

Funny how one experiences a paradigm shift: a year ago, I would have flamed you saying to suck it up and stop whining....

Now I think differently.

Like others have said, take a sabbatical: since you've just held a command, you've probably experienced more of the 'chores' and a lot less of the fun stuff you joined CAP for.   Kudos for hanging in there while in command, I did too, despite HUGE frustrations-you knew that it wasn't all about you, and that you made a committment more to the members who served under your command than to those who appointed you, assuming that they are still around.  You hung in there, did your bit for King & Country and if you were lucky, made a difference for a few folks: Bravo Zulu!

You know you've burned out when you are eager to take a call from work on your cell, and cringe when you know it's a CAP-related call.

If you feel the leadership is lackluster, or members of the chain have become in-effect third world despots, hang back until they change the flag, then see what happens.

Don't take a staff position if you are burned-out: you may have a different title, but you're dealing with the same people and same organizational culture: it's like getting a divorce and then going to your in-laws for Christmas.......

I'm right there with you: time to take a little break after 10 years, don't let your membership lapse just yet,  go ahead and renew at least this time: you've probably spent $65 on a lot dumber things.

[Persona non grata]

Just let mine lapse for many of the same reasons, I have no intention on coming back.

Don't need to play military, I am on base everyday and walk and talk with Real Military(TM).

Got tired of the outlay of cash, and then being hamstrung in fund raising.

Uniforms?  I think there are enough threads on that

Only received one call back from a squadron 1.5 hours away when I relocated to another state last summer.  The other squadrons never replied back to my inquiries.  Guess they did not need a qualified observer, CD, Aerial photographer for coastal patrol.  oh yeah PAO, safety, Deputy commander.. I suppose I don't have anything to bring to the table.

If squadron POC's can't make the effort to return phone calls and emails, I don't want to be a part of them.

Nothing for me to learn, I've taught.

Pretty soon i will be deleting my link to CT.

My season is done.

Maybe you should have put more of an effort into CAP and give it another chance

[jimmydeanno]

Maybe my perspective is a bit different.  Every time my membership comes up for renewal I run through the same questions that I think most do.

1) Is it worth the money?
2) Is it worth the time?
3) Do I still enjoy it?
4) Am I gaining anything from still being a member?

I could very easily convince myself to answer "no" to all of them, but it isn't true.  I'm sort of at the point where I decide what I want to do in the program and do it.  I've had times where I wasn't "welcome" but I just ignored them and their pettiness, and continued to do great things.

I have a blast, every time I do something with CAP.

[flyboy53]

Your reasons are sad for me. I appreciate that you want to air your concerns in this forum, but the decision is purely yours. None of us can make it for you or try to influence you to stay.

People seek out the CAP much in the same way they join the military, some club, a volunteer fire company or EMS Squad. They come in search of a goal, to seek some level of recognition or some sense of fulfillment through belonging.

Joining the CAP and serving in this capacity is an intrensic type of goal. You get out of it what you put into it and you begin to embrace the change that comes with different leadership or transitions in people or missions. It shows that the CAP, as an organization, is a living entity where change is constant. That's also how squadrons grow or change through the years.

Since I joined in 1966, there are only two other fomer cadets that I keep in regular contact with. They stuck with the CAP like I did, and I would hope the organization is better because of our insight or involvement.

One other thing, being a first lieutenant is a critical time for you. I don't know how many people I've know that hang it up at this point in their service or become really stagnant....I know, I was a first lieutant from 1975 to 1988. I would urge you to stick around and set a goal of completing everyting necessary for promotion.

Perhaps you need to look at another speciality, I have four under my belt now. I know others that chose new ones just because they were burning out. I would also urge you to pick an ES skill, if you haven't already, and start pursuing it to the maximum. You never know what rewarding opportunities await you.

I would urge you to stay. If you aren't satisfied with a certain function, task or assignment, only you have the power to change that.

[Pumbaa]

Maybe you should have put more of an effort into CAP and give it another chance

Let's see, I was a Mission Observer, Deputy Sqdn commander, Sqdn PAO, Group PAO, NY Region assistant PAO and helped NER PAO.. was a PAO at the NER SARX, 2 years running, I flew 50 CD missions a year, flew a couple of SARs on short notice, Did SAR-X's, Designed and maintained 2 squadron and 1 group website, raised nearly $4k in funds single handedly for the squadron.  Should I go on?

And you say give it more effort?

I relocate to VA and contact 4 squadrons...

If CAP won't take the effort to call me back...

blah...

[flyboy53]

Maybe you should have put more of an effort into CAP and give it another chance

If CAP won't take the effort to call me back...

blah...

So, what were you expecting? An engraved invitation? With all of that experience, you should have known better. With all that experience, you should have taken some initiative.

Remember these lessons from the Air Force school of practical leadership: Life won't always hand you what you want or think you deserve; life itself is one big leadership labratory and pursue excellence in all you do.

This is the CAP, afterall, if you want something done, you do it yourself..... you don't wait until someone hands you a bone (offer) or says come play with us.

[FW]

And you say give it more effort?

I relocate to VA and contact 4 squadrons...

If CAP won't take the effort to call me back...

blah...

Pumbaa, my friend.  I hear ya.  I left NER (spiritually) 7 years ago and, no one ever called me to help them... (ok, maybe I did get a couple of calls)
However, I did get a chance to make a further difference in CAP.  I did it by being proactive with the new leadership and providing an insight that was missing. Now I am less "active" but, no less involved.  I can find ways to serve at any level I choose.  I have never been turned down for flying an O'flight, giving a class on AE or CP, or just showing up at a conference to say hi to new and old friends.
For me, CAP is an extended family.  Sometimes it's good to distance yourself a bit to reevaluate your goals and objectives.  CAP will be here for you if and when you decide to re engage.  Good luck and, thanks for your service.
FW. 

[cachambliss]

A couple of observations:
After a long absence from CAP I decided to give it another look.  There are several Squadrons within a 45 minute drive from my house or office so for about a month I 'visited'.  I was impressed, some of these units make airport fbo's absolutely inviting.  Here is a stranger standing next to a wall for over 45 minutes and no one, not a single person offers to say hello, ask if I need assistance, or even to tell me to get out of the way.  I guess I was invisible.  Finally, as the meeting was breaking up one person did thank me for stopping by and said "come again". 
  Next week, another unit.  walk into the building and ask where the CAP meeting is taking place.  Before the counter girl can say anything a gentleman walks up sticks his hand out and says "I'm Jack ******, let me show you around"  I get the nickel tour, and then we go into the meeting room where I am introduced to everyone else on a one to one basis.
  Care to guess which squadron I joined? 

To the original poster:  Should you stay?  That my friend is a question only you can answer.  However, let me ask you a question:

If you leave how will it get better?

Sometimes as in the immortal words of 'Pogo' (for those of you who remember that comic strip from the 1960's): 
"We have met the enemy and it is us".

[N Harmon]

Nope, if you aren't getting what you need out of the program and aren't willing to step up and try to instigate what you think needs to be happening then nothing anybody can say to you will make it worth your while to stick around.

Well, in his defense he did start this thread, so he at least seems to want to stay in CAP. He just isn't sure if it is worth it.

Perhaps we need to start a thread on how to get more out of CAP.

[RickRutledge]

My one half of one cent:

I've found that with anything, CAP or otherwise, once you've hit this point, it's time to bow out. It's more destructive to try and stick it out whilst having a bad attitude because you're disappointed in the people around you and a change of CAP scenery will come with it's own set of difficulties that may amplify your already jaded outlook. It's ok, that happens.

I joined as a cadet in 1996 and stayed on as a high-speed kid until 2000-2001. I chose to get out because the seniors at my squadron's level weren't doing anything positive to help the program and the outlook wasn't all that great. One day, I was having a heart to heart with my dad and he reminded me that sometimes we're our own worst enemy (as someone pointed out before) and when we choose to "stick it out" it does more bad than good. And he was right, so adios I went into the wild blue yonder.

Fast forward ten years. My roomie and best friend (also a former cadet and now chief pilot for jet management company, CFII and ATP) indicated how he'd thought about getting back in. That got me thinking and a few weeks later we both signed up. Now we're back and focused on the future. BUT, none of this would have been possible had I not pulled out when I did. It gave me a better perspective and outlook.

Only YOU know what's best for YOU. And, you should be the only person who's advice you would take seriously.

Hope that helps.

[Persona non grata]

Maybe you should have put more of an effort into CAP and give it another chance

Let's see, I was a Mission Observer, Deputy Sqdn commander, Sqdn PAO, Group PAO, NY Region assistant PAO and helped NER PAO.. was a PAO at the NER SARX, 2 years running, I flew 50 CD missions a year, flew a couple of SARs on short notice, Did SAR-X's, Designed and maintained 2 squadron and 1 group website, raised nearly $4k in funds single handedly for the squadron.  Should I go on?

And you say give it more effort?

I relocate to VA and contact 4 squadrons...

If CAP won't take the effort to call me back...

blah...

Ok and your point is. Many CAP members do more but they suck it up. You are just experincing the suck factor. You just need to press on, maybe you should consider taking what you went through and turn it into a postive                                                               

[Custer]

A couple of observations:
After a long absence from CAP I decided to give it another look.  There are several Squadrons within a 45 minute drive from my house or office so for about a month I 'visited'.  I was impressed, some of these units make airport fbo's absolutely inviting.  Here is a stranger standing next to a wall for over 45 minutes and no one, not a single person offers to say hello, ask if I need assistance, or even to tell me to get out of the way.  I guess I was invisible.  Finally, as the meeting was breaking up one person did thank me for stopping by and said "come again". 
  Next week, another unit.  walk into the building and ask where the CAP meeting is taking place.  Before the counter girl can say anything a gentleman walks up sticks his hand out and says "I'm Jack ******, let me show you around"  I get the nickel tour, and then we go into the meeting room where I am introduced to everyone else on a one to one basis.
  Care to guess which squadron I joined? 

SAME story here.  I initially went to a squadron that met Monday nights so I could participate in something else on Wednesdays - it was a tiny group of less than a dozen and I still got ignored.  I tried out the other unit and got so much better of a response that I blew off the original event I was scheduling around and joined the second outfit.

[Persona non grata]

I hate to se people leave the program. Try and look at all the positive aspects of the program.  I will admit that I have wanted to walk away at times but you should just press on and be positive .  Whatever you decide MR. Thorton, good luck .

Regards
MAJ J H

[SARDOC]

Maybe you should have put more of an effort into CAP and give it another chance

Let's see, I was a Mission Observer, Deputy Sqdn commander, Sqdn PAO, Group PAO, NY Region assistant PAO and helped NER PAO.. was a PAO at the NER SARX, 2 years running, I flew 50 CD missions a year, flew a couple of SARs on short notice, Did SAR-X's, Designed and maintained 2 squadron and 1 group website, raised nearly $4k in funds single handedly for the squadron.  Should I go on?

And you say give it more effort?

I relocate to VA and contact 4 squadrons...

If CAP won't take the effort to call me back...

blah...

Pumbaa..I don't know where in Virginia you are but you are welcome to come to the Coastal Composite Squadron in Virginia Beach...I know it's not an engraved invitation...but an invitation none the less.  thanks

[johnboy]

you should take a brake for a while

[Short Field]

What is he going to do with the brake?

[DakRadz]

Put a halt to the wining.

[Al Sayre]

Is he also dining, or just eating cheese?

[DakRadz]

I'm not sure, but it is a knight affair.

Crackerjacks. My apologies for the double post... Not sure why it froze up like it did. Anyway. My apologies once again.