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CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
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 91 
 on: June 19, 2018, 06:37:17 PM 
Started by Picy3 - Last post by Spam

OK, in seriousness (having just watched my like, 30th encampment in processing line slooooowwwwly move forward):

Offutteer has a good point of view (bring extra stuff that you think makes sense). I respect that: we should reward initiative and members who think ahead, and don't necessarily dumb themselves down to the minimum brain activity. (joke).

The opposing point of view is that cadre must adhere to the packing list(s) that are issued, and spend time and effort inspecting and confiscating items that you bring that are not on the approved packing list. Taking time to inspect and argue the point slows down the team.

Your decision on the break here: do you really think your added gear is worth arguing over at check in (slowing the process down for hundreds, and making the confiscation list longer) versus the marginal utility of your added gear? I cannot answer that for you. Only you, and your local Wing can.

Sincerely, best wishes for your Encampment!
Spam



 92 
 on: June 19, 2018, 06:29:04 PM 
Started by Eclipse - Last post by Mitchell 1969
Sorry. No time to watch a 45 minute video. But...

OK, without putting too fine a point on it, this is...

"I have no time for the nuance, so let me just tell you what I think about what I think this is about..."
and then brings an edge-case example where something generally accepted "can't work because of this one
time at band camp...", missing the point entirely.

Actually, the argument you try to make about this concept is a mistake many poor leaders make.

Of course if there is a practical reason why the "leader", per se, needs to consume calories first, then
of course the leader does so.


I believe it to have been presumptuous on your part that anyone needed to watch a 45 minute video of your choosing in order to learn some lesson that you believed they needed.

My comments, therefore, were stand-alone, about the overuse of the phrase itself and my observation that there is often more emphasis on the phrase than on the point of the phrase. Feel free to disagree if you wish, but you will have the advantage of not having a 45-minute video being foisted upon you.


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 93 
 on: June 19, 2018, 06:25:29 PM 
Started by Picy3 - Last post by Spam
For all those saying watches are not allowed you missed the part in the encampent guide that says students will keep their watches and jewelry.

Nice!  OK - "THIRD WATCH FALL IN.  You will stand watch until 0300, your orders are to take charge of this post and all government (aka "designated" for CAP cadets of a certain age) property in view, to walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert, and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing, and to o report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce...

KIDDING....  :D

For our younger CAP teammates, this was a play on the term, "watch" which has connotations to those of us with Naval/Marine backgrounds). For those of us with USN/USMC backgrounds, there is the 12th general order: to walk my post from flank to flank and take no Sierra from any rank".

 :o

Cheers
Spam

PS this is one of the more divergent threads I've seen in recent years!


 94 
 on: June 19, 2018, 06:20:56 PM 
Started by GroundHawg - Last post by SarDragon
That one went bad quickly.

Click.

 95 
 on: June 19, 2018, 06:18:58 PM 
Started by GroundHawg - Last post by Mitchell 1969
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.....

There you go, assuming. Was that a good use of your time?


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 96 
 on: June 19, 2018, 05:50:04 PM 
Started by Picy3 - Last post by abdsp51
For all those saying watches are not allowed you missed the part in the encampent guide that says students will keep their watches and jewelry.

 97 
 on: June 19, 2018, 05:37:23 PM 
Started by Picy3 - Last post by Offutteer
To the original point about bringing additional items: I don't know about items not on the list, but I do recommend bringing more than the recommended number of underwear, t-shirts, and socks.

I'll second this one.  If it says "Minimum", then bring extras, if you have them.  It's better to have more and not need them than it is to only have the minimum and need more.

 98 
 on: June 19, 2018, 04:32:20 PM 
Started by Jester - Last post by Ned
Would an NCSA or even a region-level "encampment instructor course" or something like that help?  I see pluses and minuses to it but haven't given it severe thought.

I can only agree, but we could never make the numbers work.  Even on a regional basis.  And assuming that what we are really running is a "train the trainers" course to help communicate intensity look and feel, we would probably want to have at least 2-3 graduates of such a course at every one of the forty-ish encampments wings and regions run every year.  Even moving folks two states over for a weekend class would consume the lion's share of each wing's CP budget.

Sure, we could do some of it, at least, on line.  But that just returns to the difficult question of how we effectively communicate an intangible "look and feel" to our CP leaders nationwide through written or AV media.

Most of us know "how encampment works" because we have been to one.  Or more.  In our own wing.  I was surprised when I first became a Region DCP how breathtakingly few of us ever get to an encampment in another wing.  I made it a point to make to as many encampments in my region as I could (never did get to AK or HI, but had trusted agents and videos to help me understand their encampment cultures), and it amazed me how different they could be.  Astonishingly different encampments were held just a 100 miles apart.

Now I have responsibility (shared with my NHQ volunteer and corporate colleagues) to help ensure a relatively uniform encampment experience nationwide.  As you can see, we have not yet reached a consensus on some parts of it.

 99 
 on: June 19, 2018, 04:18:55 PM 
Started by Jester - Last post by Ned
But there are major differences between encampment and BMT. 
 
Of course. 

But my point is that there both major differences but also "major similarities," which are directly comparable.  As I wrote in the CAPP 60-15, MTIs go to months of schooling before working directly with trainees, while the typical CAP senior member or cadet cadre supervising cadets at encampment might have mere weeks of training, and sometimes little or none.  AF Trainees typically range in age from 17-24, while our cadets are typically 13-15 at encampment.  I can only agree that those two groups are very different in their ability to benefit from, let alone tolerate, higher levels of military intensity.

I'm pretty sure we agree completely on this point.

 
Quote
It is one thing for an MTI at Lackland to "yell" at a flt of 30-40 people and another for Cadet Snuffy at encampment.

To make the comparison fair, let's modify it to read "It is one thing for an MTI at Lackland [to raise his/her voice] at a flight of 30-40 people and another for a CAP cadet flight sergeant to [raise his/her voice] at a flight of 15-20 cadets at encampment."

(Trying to make sure we are comparing a group criticism with a group criticism.)

So, why do you think so?  I guess this may be the heart of our disagreement.  Clearly, any work with our cadets has to be positive and age appropriate, but at least in other youth training situations there appears to be fairly wide agreement that fair and age-appropriate constructive criticism directed to a group (as opposed to an individual) is both safe and effective.  It is hard to me to imagine any of my youth sports coaches not speaking loudly and plainly to the team as a whole when we performed poorly.  Especially when we were together in a group, but even when we were spread out on the field.  "I know you can do better than that" seems an appropriate team-building message, even when delivered in a loud voice tone to help create urgency and focus our attention on our collective performance.


Quote
My experience with the latter has been cadets especially cadet cadre yelling simply because they can.

Again, I think we agree on this part.  Nobody should raise their voice "simply because they can."  Indeed, we have a pretty good discussion of cadets "Going Hollywood" in the 60-15 at p. 15, with the advice that "CP leaders should be alert to this risk and intervene. . . "

Quote
I'm all for a structured encampment regime however yelling especially when there is no imminent dange just to yell or prove a point is counter productive. I can't even recall the last time I had to yell as a training tool in daily job or CAP.

Again, I think we agree on far more than we disagree here.  No one is suggesting that a raised voice should be used if it is counter-productive in a given situation or activity.  And I agree that in the great majority of cadet activities, (Squadron meetings, weekend activities, CAP conferences, most region and national activities, etc.) it would be extremely rare to hear a raised voice.

Ultimately, I think the answer is somewhere between the two extremes -  Raised voices all the time, and never ever use a raised voice unless safety requires it.

A raised voice is just one tool in the intensity toolbox described in pp. 16-18 of the 60-15.  A leader's voice tone and loudness is just one thing that can be used to raise or lower an intensity level to optimize a cadet's task focus and learning.

Thank you for your work with our cadets.  You are making a very real difference in the future on the nation.

Ned Lee

 100 
 on: June 19, 2018, 03:42:29 PM 
Started by Jester - Last post by abdsp51
Col Lee you have done great work in Cadets Programs and the results from what I have seen speak for themself.  But there are major differences between encampment and BMT.  Yes the AF wants certain things in the encampment curriculum.  It is one thing for an MTI at Lackland to "yell" at a flt of 30-40 people and another for Cadet Snuffy at encampment..  My experience with the later has been cadets especially cadet cadre yelling simply because they can.

Not everyone does MTI duty and actually as of a few years ago they upped the requirements for it after the BMT scandal.  I can say that having staffed and ina couple cases planned and led activities that when "yelling" was removed it was far more successful. 

I'm all for a structured encampment regime however yelling especially when there is no imminent dange just to yell or prove a point is counter productive. I can't even recall the last time I had to yell as a training tool in daily job or CAP.

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