A CCOC will be held on Pope AFB on 19-25 July. All cadets that have completed the Wright Bro, and are at least 15 years old and a Class 1 (unrestricted PT) are encouraged to apply.
Any SM that has achieved TFO/1st LT or higher are also able to apply.
CCOC website (http://www.capnc007.org/ccoc/usafccoc.html)
The above link is directly to the CCOC website. Most of the vital information is there, but updates will be forthcoming.
Cost, as of right now is $150, it is likely to come down during the next month to maybe around $100.
This year , we will only accept 18 or 20 cadets and 2 Seniors as TAC Officers.
Selection will be held on 6 June 09. All personnel applying must attend in order to be considered. All the appropriate forms are currently on the website.
More to follow.
Mmmm, I'm excited already. Can I wear 1Lt for the duration of the event? :)
I come with my own parachuting gear, even. Just put me in the Herk, I'll dead center the DZ for ya.
LOL
The one thing that we don't attually do is jump, everything up until that point, though.
Sure you can wear 1 Lt, just fill out a CAPF 2, and select "Demotion" and 1st LT ;)
If you get me your creds, I'll try to get you on the Bird, if possible.
To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.
From what I've been told, the CAP OIC loves flutter kicks for PT. I, I mean the XO loves to do The Motivator.
Forget that I said anything.
If this isn't a legit NCSA, it's in the wrong section... Also, your abbreviation sucks.
Quote from: MIKE on March 22, 2009, 12:20:42 AM
If this isn't a legit NCSA it's in the wrong section... Also, your abbreviation sucks.
My bad. Some things I can't always change. You have the power to do of it though.
Whats wong with the Abreviation?
I should also point out that this is a NCSA in Developement.
Ohh... my Cadets are going to love this!
So, if I read this correctly, in order to apply as a participant they have to attend (at Pope AFB) on 6 June 09, or is this just for Staff/TAC officers?
Selection is requires for all applicants, which will be held at NCWG HQ on 6 June, which is in Burlington NC.
At Selection, a PT test will be adnministered, followed by a Uniform Inspection, and a Board of Review. The Course Roster will be announced NLT 8 June 2009. Payment must be paid NLT 20 June 2009. Thr cost is the same for both Cadet and SM applicants.
Its going to be mighty expensive for the cadets that are not located in or near NC to do that.. Getting to the activity is one thing, but going to a special selection board is a little too much, especially with the costs associated with travel these days.
Why not have the PT test administered at the squadron, and require the SQ/CC's John Hancock the prove the cadet passed, and with both a minimum age and rank set, assume that the cadets attending will be mature and able enough to attend..
Just an observation, but I think the seperate selection board will turn a lot of cadets (and/or their parents) away.
Quote from: DC on March 22, 2009, 01:02:04 AM
Its going to be mighty expensive for the cadets that are not located in or near NC to do that.. Getting to the activity is one thing, but going to a special selection board is a little too much, especially with the costs associated with travel these days.
Above my level, not an option.
Quote from: DC on March 22, 2009, 01:02:04 AM
Why not have the PT test administered at the squadron, and require the SQ/CC's John Hancock the prove the cadet passed, and with both a minimum age and rank set, assume that the cadets attending will be mature and able enough to attend..
They do have to pass the PT Test at the Squadron as well as Selection. Part of the rational is that we only want the very best cadets going as to avoid making a huge disaster of this idea. Right now, the Special tactics command is very excited about doing this to the point that Recruitment is willing to pay a bunch of money for it. If there are "excessive" course failures and/or injuries, they can and will kill the program for the future.
Quote from: DC on March 22, 2009, 01:02:04 AM
Just an observation, but I think the seperate selection board will turn a lot of cadets (and/or their parents) away.
Again, not my call, above my paygrade.
I even have to pay a fee, and I'm on the Staff.
While I am all for the CCOC idea (I really think its a great idea) and I realize that these decisions are out of your control, I have to agree that this is something that will unfortunately keep it minimized to a Wing/Region activity rather than allowing it to grow to its full potential as a NCSA.
Why not do it like (from what I've heard) PJOC does with a fitness test upon arrival and if they fail, then they go home? Making sure the participants realize this will be the policy (perhaps with a signed statement of understanding) will prevent those who wouldn't pass the fitness standards from even bothering.
As I just factored from my location in Florida, the airfare would be a roundtrip cost of $352 per person (parents would most likely go along with their Cadet and so that cost is doubled) and from further distances it could be much more, then factor a car rental to get to the location from the airport and perhaps a hotel to stay a night or the weekend. Adding up the costs, this could get very expensive and with parents often getting frustrated with the unending costs of CAP, this could result in most people opting to go to other activities as all the above cost would just be to *apply* for the activity and not even for the actual activity itself.
While if this was the RM, then it would be easy as these costs would be covered by the military and so it wouldn't be a hassle, and perhaps this is the mindset of those from the military side of things, but to ask Cadets to spend several hundred or perhaps a thousand dollars just to apply for an event, kind of kills the idea for most.
I support this activity and I'll certainly present it to my Cadets and I'm sure they will be excited, but I do fear that the added cost will cause their parents to either say no or to tell them to pick a different special activity like PJOC.
As much as CCOC sounds like a blast, potentially spending a grand just to apply (and then spending that a second time if they are selected) is going to make many question if there are better uses for that money like finishing up a pilot's license, etc. I'm pretty sure cadets (i.e. their parents) are going to have a huge issue with this, especially for cadets from further distances. Just a point to consider.
I realize this is out of your control, but I'm mentioning all this just as a suggestion/perspective that perhaps you could pass along... I would love for this to grow into a NCSA, but at this point, the cost of attending a selection event just to apply seems like a major issue.
I definately understand what you are saying. I will certainly pass along your coments. If it should come to pass that it is a full NCSA, we might go that route. Right now, we are in the crawl stage. That s why we are doing things pretty rigid in selection. Provided we get a posative outcome, we will expand to allow for more Cadets.
One of the reasons that we are being so strict with the PT tests and such is to be sure that we can do all that we can to ensure the highest percentage of graduates that pass the PAST test. The AF is taking a very close look at this. We want to be able to offer it to all of CAP.
As far as I know, if all goes well, the face to face selection will be going away to something similar to PJOC. We all want it to get to that point. There are also things that are going on that haven't been figured out yet. Check the website as we will be adding more information as it developes.
2 mile run and a swim back to back? ... now that will be adventurous for many cadets.
Quote from: NCO forever on March 22, 2009, 12:11:28 AM
To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.
Who says you can't jump?
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on March 22, 2009, 03:45:23 AM
2 mile run and a swim back to back? ... now that will be adventurous for many cadets.
I was noticing that too. With a minimum of 35 pushups in 2min, 50 situps in 2min, flexed arm hang, a 2mi run in less than 16'30", and a 200m swim in less than 10mins, this will certainly prove effective in seeking out those cadets who are truly physically fit. I kind of like the idea of having high standards like this as it seeks out those who are best prepared and also inspires others to get fit in order to attend such a great activity.
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2009, 04:37:22 AM
Quote from: NCO forever on March 22, 2009, 12:11:28 AM
To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.
Who says you can't jump?
Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?
Quote from: DBlair on March 22, 2009, 03:08:21 AM
As I just factored from my location in Florida, the airfare would be a roundtrip cost of $352 per person (parents would most likely go along with their Cadet and so that cost is doubled) and from further distances it could be much more, then factor a car rental to get to the location from the airport and perhaps a hotel to stay a night or the weekend. Adding up the costs, this could get very expensive and with parents often getting frustrated with the unending costs of CAP, this could result in most people opting to go to other activities as all the above cost would just be to *apply* for the activity and not even for the actual activity itself.
Why would mom/dad fly along? I can't tell you how many people I've picked up at airports who arrived "sans parental units." Heck, I had two cadets show up for AUSA a couple years ago, one took the train to DC from NJ, hopped the Yellow line from Union Station and appeared at my elbow in the middle of the DC convention center. The other did exactly the same thing, but he flew into DCA and caught the Metro up to the convention center. Neither had mom or dad along.
QuoteWhile if this was the RM, then it would be easy as these costs would be covered by the military and so it wouldn't be a hassle, and perhaps this is the mindset of those from the military side of things, but to ask Cadets to spend several hundred or perhaps a thousand dollars just to apply for an event, kind of kills the idea for most.
I don't know: you supply a (pardon the term) "kick ass" activity, they'll come. Maybe not a lot, but they'll come. And if its Sierra Hotel enough, they'll come in droves.
Quote from: DBlair on March 22, 2009, 04:42:11 AM
Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?
Per CAPR52-16, parachuting is specfically disallowed as a cadet activity. Also per CAPR 60-1, CAP planes may not be used for parachuting.
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to discern how much latitude you have in between those regulations.
Quote from: DBlair on March 22, 2009, 04:42:11 AM
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2009, 04:37:22 AM
Quote from: NCO forever on March 22, 2009, 12:11:28 AM
To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.
Who says you can't jump?
Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?
IIRC, it's in CAPR 52-16 (Cadet Programs reg).
Cadets cannot jump at CAP activites (or as a CAP acitivty), but
Senior Members do not such a restriction...
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2009, 04:42:54 AM
Quote from: DBlair on March 22, 2009, 03:08:21 AM
As I just factored from my location in Florida, the airfare would be a roundtrip cost of $352 per person (parents would most likely go along with their Cadet and so that cost is doubled) and from further distances it could be much more, then factor a car rental to get to the location from the airport and perhaps a hotel to stay a night or the weekend. Adding up the costs, this could get very expensive and with parents often getting frustrated with the unending costs of CAP, this could result in most people opting to go to other activities as all the above cost would just be to *apply* for the activity and not even for the actual activity itself.
Why would mom/dad fly along? I can't tell you how many people I've picked up at airports who arrived "sans parental units." Heck, I had two cadets show up for AUSA a couple years ago, one took the train to DC from NJ, hopped the Yellow line from Union Station and appeared at my elbow in the middle of the DC convention center. The other did exactly the same thing, but he flew into DCA and caught the Metro up to the convention center. Neither had mom or dad along.
QuoteWhile if this was the RM, then it would be easy as these costs would be covered by the military and so it wouldn't be a hassle, and perhaps this is the mindset of those from the military side of things, but to ask Cadets to spend several hundred or perhaps a thousand dollars just to apply for an event, kind of kills the idea for most.
I don't know: you supply a (pardon the term) "kick ass" activity, they'll come. Maybe not a lot, but they'll come. And if its Sierra Hotel enough, they'll come in droves.
Point well taken, Col.
I was just thinking that the parents might need to accompany them to the 'tryout' as it may not have the usual pickup and support provided as it would only be a tryout at that point.
I agree that if it is a great activity (which I'm quite sure CCOC will be), there will be quite a bit of interest- there may not be huge numbers at first due to cost, but eventually, I can see this gaining a lot of popularity. For the most part, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate and thinking of what the parents might say. I know that in my unit alone, I have a few Cadets who would probably jump through hoops just to participate at such an activity, so perhaps my concerns are not warranted.
Quote from: arajca on March 22, 2009, 04:46:50 AM
Quote from: DBlair on March 22, 2009, 04:42:11 AM
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2009, 04:37:22 AM
Quote from: NCO forever on March 22, 2009, 12:11:28 AM
To bad we can't actually jump. I have a cadet in my squadron from Israel who has been to jump school and sniper school. If only we could do away with ORM.
Who says you can't jump?
Sir, I always wondered about this... is there any regulation or otherwise limitation that prevents CAP members (Cadet or Senior) from jumping at an activity? What about if they signed some sort of waiver?
IIRC, it's in CAPR 52-16 (Cadet Programs reg). Cadets cannot jump at CAP activites (or as a CAP acitivty), but Senior Members do not such a restriction...
Interesting... very interesting...
Some of the events will include PLF's, mock door exits, JM Signals, EP's, Dirt Dives, Body Positions, Parachute VR Simulator Training at Airborne Test Board, Vertical Wind Tunnel, Trip to Drop Zone(s) to view Airborne Ops (weather permitting) Water Survival Training in CCS Pool (weather backup), and even more.
This will be a very packed week.
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 22, 2009, 02:28:59 PM
Some of the events will include PLF's, mock door exits, JM Signals, EP's, Dirt Dives, Body Positions, Parachute VR Simulator Training at Airborne Test Board, Vertical Wind Tunnel, Trip to Drop Zone(s) to view Airborne Ops (weather permitting) Water Survival Training in CCS Pool (weather backup), and even more.
This will be a very packed week.
You get the cadets on the 34 foot towers and I'll be impressed. :)
(we marched past the Advanced Airborne School's facility to/from chow every day, and between that and the pack sheds over there...mmmmmm)
I'll make sure I get pics from the ground. No way am I getting up on that tower.
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 22, 2009, 02:53:00 PM
I'll make sure I get pics from the ground. No way am I getting up on that tower.
You know, I read a thing where they picked 34 feet as the height of the exit trainer specifically because it was the height where people would balk. Apparently at 33 feet, your brain says "I might survive this.." but at 34 feet, you have to force yourself? :)
I'm afraid of heights (which is why I jump out of planes, rappel, etc, of course!)
This sounds like a cool deal. "Sierra Hotel" :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course? ;)
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches
This is neat stuff. I like it. I wish it wasn't in NC...... I wish I was still a cadet! Maybe I can get an age waiver? Oh well.
Quote from: Senior on March 22, 2009, 03:17:28 PM
This sounds like a cool deal. "Sierra Hotel" :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course? ;)
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches
How about just an NCSA ribbon.....be a man of mystery and let them wonder about it. I think we should follow the USMC way. Like a Marine with Gold Jump Wings and a SCUBA badge. It could mean you are a Parachute Rigger who scored a SCUBA slot as an incentive to reenlist, or it could mean you are the Scout Sniper Section Leader for 1st Force Recon. No special Patches, no berets...... just the size of your biceps and the badness of your strut.
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 22, 2009, 03:22:17 PM
This is neat stuff. I like it. I wish it wasn't in NC...... I wish I was still a cadet! Maybe I can get an age waiver? Oh well.
You can try for a TAC Officer slot. There are only two this year though. As you are a 1st LT, you are eligible. The only age restriction is being over 15.
Quote from: Senior on March 22, 2009, 03:17:28 PM
This sounds like a cool deal. "Sierra Hotel" :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course? ;)
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches
No, but if you pass the PAST test, should you choose to go AF, you will be guaranteed to have a slot in the AF Special Tactics Pipeline.
For the cadet that scores the highest on the PAST test, I will buy them a Maroon beret. They can't wear it in uniform, but its a nice keepsake.
BTW, I want to officially state that I'm jealous: You guys are gonna get into the Paraclete XP tunnel there at Raeford. That sucker is 16' 4" in diameter and cylindrical. The tunnel up here is only 12' and its a hexagon cross section.
I have contemplated a trip to Raeford for next winter (for the tunnel and the Airborne/Special Operations Museum in Fayettenam, too)
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 22, 2009, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: Senior on March 22, 2009, 03:17:28 PM
This sounds like a cool deal. "Sierra Hotel" :clap:
Do you get to wear a beret after you pass this course? ;)
1. PJOC
2.APJOC
3.CCOC
You will run out out sleeve to put on the patches
No, but if you pass the PAST test, should you choose to go AF, you will be guaranteed to have a slot in the AF Special Tactics Pipeline.
For the cadet that scores the highest on the PAST test, I will buy them a Maroon beret. They can't wear it in uniform, but its a nice keepsake.
Knowing that they could potentially be guaranteed a slot like that as a result of CCOC will be a huge motivating factor for the Cadets, I'm sure.
FP. I agree, let it be a mystery. I was poking fun at the "beret' program that is active in CAP. I went to PJOC and APJOC when all that you got was
the maroon hat and t-shirt to wear ONLY when you were at the activity.
Also no shoulder patches, that you can't wear because of the US flag. I wouldn't want to wear the patches anyway you look silly with colored patches on BDU's. Don't get me started about the ABSURD dog ES patch.
This is a great experience and opportunity for those who attend.
FP. Also the quiet professionalism to get the job done and then go home.
No ribbons, no bling just a nice certificate to put in your file. ;)
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2009, 03:57:53 PM
BTW, I want to officially state that I'm jealous: You guys are gonna get into the Paraclete XP tunnel there at Raeford. That sucker is 16' 4" in diameter and cylindrical. The tunnel up here is only 12' and its a hexagon cross section.
I have contemplated a trip to Raeford for next winter (for the tunnel and the Airborne/Special Operations Museum in Fayettenam, too)
Darn it NIN, you own me a new keyboard. . . . . .
The VWT on Raeford is the backup, if we can't get the one on Bragg. We're getting the waivers up front as a precaution.
They are also getting M4 training
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 22, 2009, 03:44:04 PMNo, but if you pass the PAST test, should you choose to go AF, you will be guaranteed to have a slot in the AF Special Tactics Pipeline.
Is there an expiration for the qualification since the cadets participating can be as young as 15, meaning they're not even eligible to enlist yet?
QuoteFor the cadet that scores the highest on the PAST test, I will buy them a Maroon beret. They can't wear it in uniform, but its a nice keepsake.
PJs wear maroon, CCTs wear scarlet (unless that has changed over the years), which I imagine the Pope AFB exchange
should have them in stock. Will you have it presented by the Combat Control School's commandant? If so, that would be even cooler. :)
Quote from: SaBeR33 on March 22, 2009, 04:43:56 PM
Is there an expiration for the qualification since the cadets participating can be as young as 15, meaning they're not even eligible to enlist yet?
I do not know, but I will find out.
QuotePJs wear maroon, CCTs wear scarlet (unless that has changed over the years), which I imagine the Pope AFB exchange should have them in stock. Will you have it presented by the Combat Control School's commandant? If so, that would be even cooler. :)
I've been to the exchange, but I've never seen them. Then again, I never looked. I will inquire about them. The beret was something that I thoght of on the fly. It will stand, although I will see about getting it presented.
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2009, 02:46:49 PM
You get the cadets on the 34 foot towers and I'll be impressed. :)
There's no reason they shouldn't be able to. The 1996 SCWG encampment that was held at Fort Bragg had cadets and SMs jumping from it. It was rather funny watching 80lb cadets jump from that thing and seeing them bounce up and down like they were bungie jumping. I guess they were a tad too light to keep from bouncing.
Lt Col Robert Spencer (a retired CSGM from the 82nd ABN at Fort Bragg who's a former "Black Hat" and Special Forces qualified), from NCWG, could undoubtedly help with getting access to the tower if he isn't already involved in this project.
Id probably hold off on buying them scarlet berets. I dunno......I know it wont have the CCT crest on it, but seems a little much? But then again, Im not a Combat Controller, so if they are cool with it. But it seems odd to be presented with a beret they cant wear. Of course, for those who go on to become Combat Controllers, that would be neat to late wear the beret you were awarded as a CAP cadet.
^ Like I said, only the Cadet that has the Highest score on the PAST test will recieve the beret (if AF Cadre approve, of course). As much as I want to, if the AF do not want it done, I won't jepordize the activity.
^ Giving a cadet a beret like that and telling them to just hang it on the wall as a memento is like giving an alcoholic an unopened fifth and telling them to just admire it. BTDT
How about a nice plaque with the Combat Control crest?
There might be a couple of other surprises that I will not release, not until the course that is. ;)
Quote from: PA Guy on March 23, 2009, 05:35:21 PM
How about a nice plaque with the Combat Control crest?
Someone, somewhere, somehow, will attempt to attach said plaque to their uniform. >:D
^ ;D I can see it now. " But sir, at CCOC they said..............."
I presented it to my Cadets tonight and the response was very good- including cheering and overall excitement. The Squadron Commander mentioned that he'll run it past the Wing Commander to get approval for our Cadets to attend, but the Cadets were quite interested- too bad there are so few slots this year.
You know, it occurs to me: WIWAC, this would have been one hell of a carrot to dangle in front of me. :)
I never went to any NCSAs (back then, almost universally, you had to have your Mitchell before you went to most, if not all, the NCSAs), but something like this would have tickled my funny bone.
So keeping that in mind, instead of trying to whammer-jammer a number of cadets from your unit, why not just commit to getting ONE cadet to CCOC? Say "Hey, you know what, the most outstanding one of you will go to this most outstanding activity. Want to go to a high-speed event? Prove that you're high-speed enough and we'll send you!"
Sending one cadet is easy. Sending 3 or more is not. So work it out, see if you can get one cadet up to NC for selection, etc...
Quote from: NIN on March 25, 2009, 03:37:41 AM
You know, it occurs to me: WIWAC, this would have been one hell of a carrot to dangle in front of me. :)
I never went to any NCSAs (back then, almost universally, you had to have your Mitchell before you went to most, if not all, the NCSAs), but something like this would have tickled my funny bone.
So keeping that in mind, instead of trying to whammer-jammer a number of cadets from your unit, why not just commit to getting ONE cadet to CCOC? Say "Hey, you know what, the most outstanding one of you will go to this most outstanding activity. Want to go to a high-speed event? Prove that you're high-speed enough and we'll send you!"
Sending one cadet is easy. Sending 3 or more is not. So work it out, see if you can get one cadet up to NC for selection, etc...
Good idea.
One thing that I, unforetunately, forgote to mention is that the cadet must have completed an encampent. I was going through the requirements, as I was putting an information packet together; it was when I re-read my post that I noticed that the information was missing.
Sorry about that.
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2009, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 22, 2009, 02:53:00 PM
I'll make sure I get pics from the ground. No way am I getting up on that tower.
You know, I read a thing where they picked 34 feet as the height of the exit trainer specifically because it was the height where people would balk. Apparently at 33 feet, your brain says "I might survive this.." but at 34 feet, you have to force yourself? :)
I'm afraid of heights (which is why I jump out of planes, rappel, etc, of course!)
Actually, it just the was the height of the telephone poles the original exit training towers were built with at Fort Benning.
Quote from: caplegalnc on March 26, 2009, 08:13:13 PMActually, it just the was the height of the telephone poles the original exit training towers were built with at Fort Benning.
That answer makes more sense. ;)
I'vwe already began to get queries from all over the Eastern US. The entire staff is getting psyched at the way that this going.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Why havent I seen this activity on the National website?
Because it's NOT an NCSA.
I didnt ask why didint I see it on the NCSA website. I asked why I havent seen in on the NAtional website as an official activity sanctioned by Civil Air Patrol
Quote from: flyguy06 on April 02, 2009, 01:06:04 AM
I didnt ask why didint I see it on the NCSA website. I asked why I havent seen in on the NAtional website as an official activity sanctioned by Civil Air Patrol
When did the national website start listing every activity conducted across the nation??? I must have missed the memo...
Quote from: flyguy06 on April 02, 2009, 01:06:04 AM
I didnt ask why didint I see it on the NCSA website. I asked why I havent seen in on the NAtional website as an official activity sanctioned by Civil Air Patrol
For the simple reason that NHQ does not have to approve the activity. The same way they do not have to approve your local practice SAR activities. This is a Squadron run activity, that was blessed off by the NCWG CC. We, at Fayetteville Composite Squadron, think that this is a great oppertunity, and that we are willing to take the top twenty Cadets that met all the criteria. As this grows, if everything works out, and this DOES become a NCSA, it will have Nat. HQ approval, and paper selections. AS IT STANDS, this is a NC007 activity that we are running to give it the best chance of making it a superb activity that the AF will continue to fund.
The AFSOC is very interested in this and they are giving us a big chunk of change to make this happen. Without that support, it would not be able to run, as the costs of the school would be too much for the cadets to pay.
I have a good idea. As a cadet if I scored the highest on the PAST I would like nothing more than a nice CC challenge coin or a custom CCOC coin to slap down in front of a cadet who has one say from hawk mountain. ;D :D
Quote from: SARADDICT on April 02, 2009, 02:20:12 AM
I have a good idea. As a cadet if I scored the highest on the PAST I would like nothing more than a nice CC challenge coin or a custom CCOC coin to slap down in front of a cadet who has one say from hawk mountain. ;D :D
Now
that would be really sweet! ;D I can see the challenge now. "Ohhhh, so you've been to Hawk Mountain, huh?"
Exactly But maybe make a PAST challenge coin a bit different then a regular CCOC coin if youwanted to congradulate all 20 cadets that were (correct english?) selected.
On coins, make the one fo rall cadets bronze and the top cadet gold. Keeps visiual distinction and helps keep costs down.
The challenge coin idea is an awesome idea. I would love to see the look on PA Ranger's face when the CCOC coin hit the table. >:D ;D
CCOC website has been updated to contain all the new information as well as empalining more about what has to happen to be able to attend Selection and the course.
How did I know that Dave Siemiet was involved? :) Give the good Maj a dope-slap on the back of the head for me, if you think you can get away with it. (He was deployed in 2006 when I was at Bragg so we never got a chance to connect while I was there)
Quote from: Senior on April 02, 2009, 02:55:32 PM
The challenge coin idea is an awesome idea. I would love to see the look on PA Ranger's face when the CCOC coin hit the table. >:D ;D
Let me know if a cadet on here gets a coin because I want him to specifically find a ranger (won't be hard just look for the guy with the bling) take a camcorder and let me see his face when that coin hits I would pay to see that.
Why not just merge this thread with the "PAWG Commander terminated" thread and do all the PAWG-bashing in one place? :P
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on April 03, 2009, 03:55:08 AM
Why not just merge this thread with the "PAWG Commander terminated" thread and do all the PAWG-bashing in one place? :P
:clap: Yeah, seriously, enough is enough. I seem to remember this thread being about some 'Combat Control Orientation Course', or something like that, not a Ranger bash-a-thon.
^ Thank you. While I may (or not) have a problem with the whole ranger issue. this is not the time or place to do so.
I noticed that there are a couple of links that do not work at this time, and they are currently being addressed. More to follow.
That is all.
(for now) ;)
The course is really starting to gel. we definately get to got to a couple of wind tunnels. One at the 82nd AirborneAdvanced School. The other is on Raeford Road, wich is a 16' Wind tunnel. I won't give away how much time a student gets in there, but it is well over 5 min apeice. Cadets should be prepared to fire weapons. Not promising anything about that, but if it all comes together. . . . . ;)
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 02, 2009, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: flyguy06 on April 02, 2009, 01:06:04 AM
I didnt ask why didint I see it on the NCSA website. I asked why I havent seen in on the NAtional website as an official activity sanctioned by Civil Air Patrol
For the simple reason that NHQ does not have to approve the activity. The same way they do not have to approve your local practice SAR activities. This is a Squadron run activity, that was blessed off by the NCWG CC. We, at Fayetteville Composite Squadron, think that this is a great oppertunity, and that we are willing to take the top twenty Cadets that met all the criteria. As this grows, if everything works out, and this DOES become a NCSA, it will have Nat. HQ approval, and paper selections. AS IT STANDS, this is a NC007 activity that we are running to give it the best chance of making it a superb activity that the AF will continue to fund.
The AFSOC is very interested in this and they are giving us a big chunk of change to make this happen. Without that support, it would not be able to run, as the costs of the school would be too much for the cadets to pay.
well, thats the key then. its a local activity. Thats not how you sold it at first. Iwas asking because I thought it may be something I could send my cadets too, but if its local, then I probably could not. its all good. Sounds like a good acitivty. Hope it goes off well.
Quote from: flyguy06 on April 11, 2009, 02:11:43 PM
well, thats the key then. its a local activity. Thats not how you sold it at first. Iwas asking because I thought it may be something I could send my cadets too, but if its local, then I probably could not. its all good. Sounds like a good acitivty. Hope it goes off well.
No, you still do not get it. while it is being hosted by NC 007, any cadet may attend. If an Alaskan Cadet wanted to attend, and met passed Selection, we would be more than happy to have that Cadet.
Never once did I say that this was a NSCA, while I did post it in the wrong section, that did not change any of the information of who is eligible.
To make it absolutely clear:
Any Cadet that is 15, C/SSG+, Attended Encampment, and is phys Cat I is eligible to apply.
Any Senior that is a TFO/1st LT or higher is eligible to attend.
All applicants must attend selection at Burlington NC on 6 June 2009.
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 11, 2009, 04:17:35 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on April 11, 2009, 02:11:43 PM
well, thats the key then. its a local activity. Thats not how you sold it at first. Iwas asking because I thought it may be something I could send my cadets too, but if its local, then I probably could not. its all good. Sounds like a good acitivty. Hope it goes off well.
No, you still do not get it. while it is being hosted by NC 007, any cadet may attend. If an Alaskan Cadet wanted to attend, and met passed Selection, we would be more than happy to have that Cadet.
Never once did I say that this was a NSCA, while I did post it in the wrong section, that did not change any of the information of who is eligible.
To make it absolutely clear:
Any Cadet that is 15, C/SSG+, Attended Encampment, and is phys Cat I is eligible to apply.
Any Senior that is a TFO/1st LT or higher is eligible to attend.
All applicants must attend selection at Burlington NC on 6 June 2009.
Having to make two trips to North Carolina does pretty much make this a "local activity".
I still don't understand why you don't use the same procedure used at PJOC.
You take the PT test when you arrive, if you don't pass, you go home, right now...
But hey, it's your activity. Do what you think is best and good luck!
Quote from: RogueLeader on March 22, 2009, 03:23:54 AM
I definately understand what you are saying. I will certainly pass along your coments. If it should come to pass that it is a full NCSA, we might go that route. Right now, we are in the crawl stage. That s why we are doing things pretty rigid in selection. Provided we get a posative outcome, we will expand to allow for more Cadets.
One of the reasons that we are being so strict with the PT tests and such is to be sure that we can do all that we can to ensure the highest percentage of graduates that pass the PAST test. The AF is taking a very close look at this. We want to be able to offer it to all of CAP.
As far as I know, if all goes well, the face to face selection will be going away to something similar to PJOC. We all want it to get to that point. There are also things that are going on that haven't been figured out yet. Check the website as we will be adding more information as it developes.
Again.
Here's a cross post from CS:
Quote from: Rogueleader
This is posted on behalf of Maj David Siemiet
I appreciate all of the lively discussion on this topic, it has made for a very interesting read. To answer with finality about the Cat I restrictions for CCOC:
- This is a very physically intensive course, and many of the events we will be doing cannot tolerate any physical limitation. This is from a safety stand point.
- The Combat Control School is our sponsor; which also puts some liability on them as well. Having pre-screened, hand selected, Cat I students reduces the risk of injury given some of the highly demanding activities we have planned.
- Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC) Recruiting, as well as the 720th Special Tactics Group are putting significant resources (and money) into this program. For the first few years; we need to take extra steps to ensure we only accept applicants that not only meet the highest standards set forth by CAP, but also are at a very low risk of dropping out for physical reasons. Putting our best foot forward will ensure future support.
- Finally, I am personally resonsible for the student's safety and well being at this course. We are going to be pushing the students to the utmost of their limits (and they're going to love it) and Cat I restriction is one way that helps me reduce the risks involved. This is not just me the CAP Officer, but me the Air Force NCO (who works in and is respopnsible to Special Tactics) that is running this activity. I am using both sides of my perona to make this a reality; so I am using every tool available to me to mitigate risks while ensuring we get to accomplish all of our objectives.
To answer the question on the final PT standards, each student will take the Air Force Combat Control "PAST" Test prior to graduation. You can look up those standards at www.specialtactics.com
As for this being a National Special Activity...Let's take this one step at a time. That is my goal, but there are many intermediate steps before we take that leap and pitch it to national. I want to take a few years and refine this product before we go to the big-time. I'm a perfectionist and I want to set this up for success.
If you have any questions for me directly, you can contact me via the contact info on the CCOC website http://www.capnc007.org/ccoc/usafccoc.html
Thanks
Maj David Siemiet, CAP
CCOC Course Director
I'll have the CD stop by and put a word in if it would help, or you can contact him directly.
In response to a cadet who is very interested in attending this course, we are willing to allow for remote application. This application will consist of the following:
- Remote Applicant Assessment (must be approved before-hand by CCOC Staff)]
- Send via DATA DVD NLT 4 June 2009 (send care of: Maj DavidSiemiet, 112 Holly Oak Cir, Bunnlevel, NC 28308)
- Contain video of each portion of the PT Test in its entirety (allvideo must be viewable w/Windows Media Player)
- Contain pictures (full body, front and back) of applicant in BDUuniform (JPEG Format) - to evaluate uniform
- Contain 1-Page resume (education, CAP experience, Job experience,Extra-curricular activities, Sports, etc)
- All application documents digitized
- Video answering the following questions (no more than 2 minuteanswers each)(video should be of applicant seated with whole body showing toevaluate body language and posture):
1. Why do you think you should be chosen to be a student at CCOC?
2. Why did you join CAP?3. What are your goals in CAP and beyond?
- Applicant will be contacted before 6 June in order to schedule aphone interview.
The Cadet applicant will answer the video questions in a board of review manner. This must include: Reporting to the President of the Board, marching movements from entering the room, LEFT, RIGHT, and ABOUT FACE.
The Remote Application process must be preapproved by CCOC Staff. Any applicant that is denied approval to apply by remote MUST attend CCOC Selection in Burlington NC on 6 June 2009. The Course Director is the final authority on whom may be allowed to apply by remote.
Are you joking? ^
Not one bit. For those who do get to apply by remote, there's a C/Capt from TXWG that made a suggestion, and we happened to find a way that works for us. Please note that not all applications to apply by remote will be approved. It is on a Case-by Case basis.
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2009, 08:07:40 PM- Applicant will be contacted before 6 June in order to schedule a phone interview.
The Cadet applicant will answer the questions in a board of review manner. This must include: Reporting to the President of the Board, marching movements from entering the room, LEFT, RIGHT, and ABOUT FACE.
That's the funny part, I think.
I should think it would be fairly hard to evaluate via telephone.
And even if it was intended to apply to the video part, it could be a little tricky.
Perhaps after the staff is selected, the activity could share with us how they objectively evaluated "body language and posture." Such an evaluation scheme could be very helpful to other activities with geographically-disadvantaged applicants.
I edited the text as those are the questions to be answered on the Video. That is so the staff can see body language as well as military bearing. We will be asking other questions during the interview.
Well... I have one cadet who's going to be applying from here, in New York City. He's going to use his hard-earned money to go to NC and try out. He's on the Lacrosse, Swimming and Diving team at his High School. He's also a certified NYC Lifeguard (NYC Dept of Parks & Recreation). A C/TSgt and he's interested in TCC as a career choice (he's 16 and a HS Junior). He's a good distance runner and has solid upper body strength. He's also on the HS robotics team and attends one of the most advanced public schools in NYC.
All this proves one thing. If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way to make it happen.
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2009, 08:07:40 PM
In response to a cadet who is very interested in attending this course, we are willing to allow for remote application. This application will consist of the following:
- Remote Applicant Assessment (must be approved before-hand by CCOC Staff)]
- Send via DATA DVD NLT 4 June 2009 (send care of: Maj DavidSiemiet, 112 Holly Oak Cir, Bunnlevel, NC 28308)
- Contain video of each portion of the PT Test in its entirety (allvideo must be viewable w/Windows Media Player)
- Contain pictures (full body, front and back) of applicant in BDUuniform (JPEG Format) - to evaluate uniform
- Contain 1-Page resume (education, CAP experience, Job experience,Extra-curricular activities, Sports, etc)
- All application documents digitized
- Video answering the following questions (no more than 2 minuteanswers each)(video should be of applicant seated with whole body showing toevaluate body language and posture):
1. Why do you think you should be chosen to be a student at CCOC?
2. Why did you join CAP?3. What are your goals in CAP and beyond?
- Applicant will be contacted before 6 June in order to schedule aphone interview.
The Cadet applicant will answer the video questions in a board of review manner. This must include: Reporting to the President of the Board, marching movements from entering the room, LEFT, RIGHT, and ABOUT FACE.
The Remote Application process must be preapproved by CCOC Staff. Any applicant that is denied approval to apply by remote MUST attend CCOC Selection in Burlington NC on 6 June 2009. The Course Director is the final authority on whom may be allowed to apply by remote.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 17, 2009, 08:14:36 PM
Are you joking? ^
Even I have to admit, this is a bit much.....
I think it's a great idea. Quality control at an activity like this is paramount. You don't need anyone who is
- Out of shape
- Doesn't represent CAP well to the AFSOC
Why?
- Someone who can't handle the physical side of the course is a danger to himself and others
- We won't get another chance to get another chance to make a first impression
Way to go RL! Great way to attack a problem with available technology.
Please excuse me for a moment.
I think the CCOC course is an excellent idea. Other than PJOC, there is no other course that looks into AFSOC.
I just think making a cadet do facing movements in a BOR is a bit much. Making a cadet do an "about face" to look at uniform issues? come on.......
I did it at my E-5 board. I don't see the problem.
Then lets just call this a difference in opinion, and we can move on to bigger and better.
I stand fast though when I say,
This is a good idea, and I hope it does big things for CAP and our Cadets
I think you are very wise to confirm that Cadets applying are capable of handling the physical and mental rigors of the course. In the CAWG Cadet Survival School ( on hold this year-too many of our key people are deployed) we found that a number of Cadets who claimed to be able to run a mile in less than 10 minutes coud hardly write that down without getting out of breath- The home Squadrons had been gundecking their PT scores, and glossing over or emitting information about the applicants' limitations. Trust, but verify. Good luck with your course, its outstanding to see the Cadet program try new things, and Dave Siemet is just the kind of innovator to make it happen.
Major Lord
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 18, 2009, 05:43:28 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2009, 08:07:40 PM
In response to a cadet who is very interested in attending this course, we are willing to allow for remote application. This application will consist of the following:
- Remote Applicant Assessment (must be approved before-hand by CCOC Staff)]
- Send via DATA DVD NLT 4 June 2009 (send care of: Maj DavidSiemiet, 112 Holly Oak Cir, Bunnlevel, NC 28308)
- Contain video of each portion of the PT Test in its entirety (allvideo must be viewable w/Windows Media Player)
- Contain pictures (full body, front and back) of applicant in BDUuniform (JPEG Format) - to evaluate uniform
- Contain 1-Page resume (education, CAP experience, Job experience,Extra-curricular activities, Sports, etc)
- All application documents digitized
- Video answering the following questions (no more than 2 minuteanswers each)(video should be of applicant seated with whole body showing toevaluate body language and posture):
1. Why do you think you should be chosen to be a student at CCOC?
2. Why did you join CAP?3. What are your goals in CAP and beyond?
- Applicant will be contacted before 6 June in order to schedule aphone interview.
The Cadet applicant will answer the video questions in a board of review manner. This must include: Reporting to the President of the Board, marching movements from entering the room, LEFT, RIGHT, and ABOUT FACE.
The Remote Application process must be preapproved by CCOC Staff. Any applicant that is denied approval to apply by remote MUST attend CCOC Selection in Burlington NC on 6 June 2009. The Course Director is the final authority on whom may be allowed to apply by remote.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 17, 2009, 08:14:36 PM
Are you joking? ^
Even I have to admit, this is a bit much.....
It seems a bit much from a CAP perspective, but it appears that Rogue is trying to make the CAP selection as close to the real CCT selection as possible. I think video taping the PT test is an interesting idea. In the military, if you try out for CCT you have CCT reps present to validate everything. In CAP we don't have that, and not that I think people are liars, but I could see people allowing a cadet to slid a little as long as they "promise" to get their mile tome down etc. Especially if cadets are going to be allowed to enter the pipeline after graduating, If I was the Air Force, I would want to make sure the majority of the cadets who attend are interested in that field.
Like someone said above, sending a cadet who cant cut it may rob from a cadet who really is wanting to head down that road in life. For about 99% of CAP, I think it needs to be designed for everyone at every level of ability. But then there are some parts, like this activity as it sounds, that need to be reserved for those who prove they really are the cream.
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2009, 03:50:21 AM
Well... I have one cadet who's going to be applying from here, in New York City. He's going to use his hard-earned money to go to NC and try out. He's on the Lacrosse, Swimming and Diving team at his High School. He's also a certified NYC Lifeguard (NYC Dept of Parks & Recreation). A C/TSgt and he's interested in TCC as a career choice (he's 16 and a HS Junior). He's a good distance runner and has solid upper body strength. He's also on the HS robotics team and attends one of the most advanced public schools in NYC.
All this proves one thing. If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way to make it happen.
Glad to hear it. I look forward to meeting him and the best of luck to him.
Quote from: Gunner C on April 18, 2009, 05:59:44 AM
I think it's a great idea. Quality control at an activity like this is paramount. You don't need anyone who is
- Out of shape
- Doesn't represent CAP well to the AFSOC
Why?
- Someone who can't handle the physical side of the course is a danger to himself and others
- We won't get another chance to get another chance to make a first impression
Way to go RL! Great way to attack a problem with available technology.
That is exactly it. I'd be amiss if I said this was my idea. It was a C/Capt from TXWG that proposed the idea. I happened to be one of the two that signed off on it. The only thing I added was the marching part of the BOR.
Quote from: Gunner C on April 18, 2009, 08:20:43 AM
I did it at my E-5 board. I don't see the problem.
Exactly where I got it from, although I found out that my Squadron does the same thing for promotion Boards. The marching portion is not so much for seeing uniform discrepancies, but to see discipline in movements.
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 18, 2009, 03:00:11 PM
The marching portion is not so much for seeing uniform discrepancies, but to see discipline in movements.
Great Idea you have here! However, the quote above leads me to think you are trying to hard to be military.
I just can't make the "discipline in movements" sync with what the course is all about.
Maybe I just don't get your whole concept.
Good luck with your activity, it sounds like it will have a few minutes of pure awesome fun, and hours of grueling "sand in your eyes" PT.
Quote from: Spike on April 19, 2009, 11:15:40 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 18, 2009, 03:00:11 PM
The marching portion is not so much for seeing uniform discrepancies, but to see discipline in movements.
Great Idea you have here! However, the quote above leads me to think you are trying to hard to be military.
I just can't make the "discipline in movements" sync with what the course is all about.
Maybe I just don't get your whole concept.
Good luck with your activity, it sounds like it will have a few minutes of pure awesome fun, and hours of grueling "sand in your eyes" PT.
Cadets going in front to the board in person will have to demonstrate the drill moves, so why shouldn't a cadet who is doing it via video? It evens the playing field somewhat.
T Minus 11 days until applications are due.
The course is really coming together nicely. We have 99% of all the big details worked out, and 95% of all the small things worked out.
Ready or not, (we really are ;D) here we come!!!!!!
BTW, I could have made the process a whole lot more "military" than what it is; not because I could, but because it isn't needed. What "military aspects that are there- they need to be there.
We have several SERE instructors that are helping out as Selection as well as the course itself.
As a side note, 90% of all the staff are either current military, or retired military.
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 25, 2009, 09:13:12 PM
BTW, I could have made the process a whole lot more "military" than what it is; not because I could, but because it isn't needed.......
AND...................??!?!?!? Since CAP is not the military.......good choice!
Quote
We have several SERE instructors that are helping out as Selection as well as the course itself.
great..and.................?!?!?! Is this supposed to impress us?
Quote
As a side note, 90% of all the staff are either current military, or retired military.
And..................?!?! Are we supposed to be impressed?
^ Who peed in your Wheaties?
Considering the nature of the activity, I'm impressed.
The "real" test for this activity will be can you do it again next year?
Even if some of the personnel conducting it this year aren't available.
Yeah, if any range time is scheduled, I'll be your Combat Arms Instructor, Tower Operator or Range Safety Officer. You know, since I'm qualified to run AF ranges and teach all those classes...
Not that I need an excuse to go to Ft. Bragg/Pope AFB. It'd just be cool to go for a real reason.
^I'll let you know.
One thing that we are doing is putting together a continuity folder on the process, as well as as all the contacts, so in the case that Maj. Siemiet gets deployed/transfered; we have a plan to get the ball rolling again.
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 28, 2009, 10:37:51 PM
One thing that we are doing is putting together a continuity folder on the process, as well as as all the contacts, ...
That right there says a lot about this course.
Quote from: Spike on May 25, 2009, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 25, 2009, 09:13:12 PM
BTW, I could have made the process a whole lot more "military" than what it is; not because I could, but because it isn't needed.......
AND...................??!?!?!? Since CAP is not the military.......good choice!
Quote
We have several SERE instructors that are helping out as Selection as well as the course itself.
great..and.................?!?!?! Is this supposed to impress us?
Quote
As a side note, 90% of all the staff are either current military, or retired military.
And..................?!?! Are we supposed to be impressed?
I sure would hope so. I'm pretty d@#$@... darn impressed and I hope this works out well enough to open the door for more high speed cadet activities in the future.
We have right now, are going to see a jump from a DZ, and we are hoping to get a C-130 O-Flight. If all goes to plan, The CCOC students will actually see a Static line jump, and a free fall jump. That looks to be very cool.
All in all, this is going to be an extrodinary event, that all of us on the CCOC Staff are pysched at how well this is coming. I hope to see many people on 6 June for selection. Remember, the deadline to apply is 23:59:59L 4 June 2009.
Quote from: RogueLeader on May 31, 2009, 04:46:04 PM
We have right now, are going to see a jump from a DZ, and we are hoping to get a C-130 O-Flight. If all goes to plan, The CCOC students will actually see a Static line jump, and a free fall jump. That looks to be very cool.
Heck, I can demonstrate the free-fall jump.
Oh, you mean a
military freefall. Well, I'll take that C-130 ride nonetheless! ;D
hello,
when doing the push ups for the PT test, are we allowed to go into any kind of rest position? like the one where we go up into a upside down V or like the navy seal push up rest position, where you can lean on one arm as long as the other arm and both feet are on the ground.
Would you please post all the awesome pics of the activities when it is done for the year?
Quote from: Pinchuk D. on June 01, 2009, 09:05:46 PM
hello,
when doing the push ups for the PT test, are we allowed to go into any kind of rest position? like the one where we go up into a upside down V or like the navy seal push up rest position, where you can lean on one arm as long as the other arm and both feet are on the ground.
The only authorized rest positions are the high arc, your first example, and the second is sagging in the middle, so long as your legs stay off the ground.
Selection went well. While we didn't have as many applicants as we had really hoped for, we still got enough to make this a GO event.
The Plank Class of the CCOC did very well for all aspects of Selection. I'm kind of embarrased that some did better on the run than I did ( he did his 2 mile run in under 12:00 min.)
I'm proud of all that applied, because they all gave it everything they had.
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 07, 2009, 05:40:20 PM
I'm kind of embarrased that some did better on the run than I did ( he did his 2 mile run in under 12:00 min.)
With youth comes speed, with age comes experience. ;D
^Concur. My PT scores only got better with age. I didn't max the APFT until I was 28.
Quote from: Stonewall on June 07, 2009, 11:26:04 PM
^Concur. My PT scores only got better with age. I didn't max the APFT until I was 28.
My first max was at 30. Funny how the body and mind work together. Heck, I ran my fastest 2 mile at 35. [/drift]
Aaron - What was the go/no-go rate for the selection?
I would LOVE to see more of these events for Officers.
Alas I know that will never be. :(
We had fewer applicans than anticipated, 2 no-go out of 11. We are working a posible way to add more, but we have met our min-force standards, so we are a GO. If any Seniors want to go, and can meet all the Standards- PT the big one, we may be able to get you slotted, cadets as well. Contact us via the emails on the Website.
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on June 08, 2009, 03:39:16 PM
I would LOVE to see more of these events for Officers.
Alas I know that will never be. :(
It's almost never too late to run off and join the military (especially the Army these days)...
Quote from: jaybird512 on June 09, 2009, 01:22:45 AM
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on June 08, 2009, 03:39:16 PM
I would LOVE to see more of these events for Officers.
Alas I know that will never be. :(
It's almost never too late to run off and join the military (especially the Army these days)...
10 years of service including a combat tour. Been there done, that....but it is still fun to get out and "play" with those who serve once in awhile.
Quote from: jaybird512 on June 09, 2009, 01:22:45 AM
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on June 08, 2009, 03:39:16 PM
I would LOVE to see more of these events for Officers.
Alas I know that will never be. :(
It's almost never too late to run off and join the military (especially the Army these days)...
Yea, I heard something about the National Guard allowing new Officers to commission up to something like age 40 or 45.
I'm currently trying to get an age waiver to join the USMC (Reserve) as an Officer (Candidates must commission before their 28th birthday, but is theoretically waiverable a few years), but the NG is starting to sound pretty nice with those 40 or 45 age limits. hehe
Like I said, we are still looking for a few more people. If you can do the PT Test, we can work with you.
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 09, 2009, 11:35:33 PM
Like I said, we are still looking for a few more people. If you can do the PT Test, we can work with you.
Any more, I'd need a two year headstart (age, etc).
To all Cadets and Seniors:
If you are still interested in attending CCOC, we can still take 10 more cadets and one senior. Just go to http://www.capnc007.org/ccoc/usafccoc.html and email me all the forms NLT 1700 on 17 Jun 09. We will work out everything else from there.
Regarding the Senior Member opening- is it as a student or staff? If so, what role? Does the SM need to meet the same application requirements as do the Cadets?
This is a student slot. You must be TFO/1st LT, completed SLS and pass the Selection PT Test.
pS, if you are a Senior that just switched from being a Cadet, and you would have been eleigable, but are not now (ie 2lt/FO, missing SLS but had encampment etc.) I'm sure we can work it out.
Quote from: DBlair on June 09, 2009, 05:35:16 PM
Quote from: jaybird512 on June 09, 2009, 01:22:45 AM
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on June 08, 2009, 03:39:16 PM
I would LOVE to see more of these events for Officers.
Alas I know that will never be. :(
It's almost never too late to run off and join the military (especially the Army these days)...
Yea, I heard something about the National Guard allowing new Officers to commission up to something like age 40 or 45.
I'm currently trying to get an age waiver to join the USMC (Reserve) as an Officer (Candidates must commission before their 28th birthday, but is theoretically waiverable a few years), but the NG is starting to sound pretty nice with those 40 or 45 age limits. hehe
Frankly unless old aged civilians are in some super speciality that the military needs, it's doubtful that there would be an interest in granting waivers. There's plenty of enlisted personnel who have vast military/technical experience & who have toiled for years between deployments etc to get their college degree & are a "known" as far as leadership potential who should be in the competition pool for a comission.
MAYBE CAP senior membership/leadership experience might give one a bit of an edge of a pure civilian applicant.
RADIOMAN
Thank you for this course. One of my cadets made his way down to NC from NYC and passed the selections. He is thrilled and excited beyond belief of course.
I can't wait to hear about all they've done and see the pictures.
Are there plans for an advanced course? What could this cadet do with CCOC next year of he chooses?
I have a question.
Is this activity sanctioned by CAP NHQ? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I would think that it must just be a Squadron activity open to more than just squadron members.
Lt. Provost
Read the whole thread. That's all covered on the first and second pages.
Most Squadron activities should be open to anyone Iwould think
Quote from: flyguy06 on July 15, 2009, 09:26:38 PM
Most Squadron activities should be open to anyone Iwould think
We don't open our squadron activities to everyone...
We don't have the facilities, staff, transportation, etc to handle more than the 40 cadets we do have.
Yes, this is(Was) open to anybody whom met the requirements. As the Course is starting in only 3 days, we are not taking anybody else. As of right now, this is Hosted by NC-007, Fayetteville Composite Squadron. It has been approved by the NCWG/CC. We are hoping to make this a NCSA, but not yet. We want to get all the preceedents set so that way, it goes the way we think it should. That being said, next year, you should see some less stringent application rules: ie from a distance. More following the AAR. One thing that will not change are the STANDARDS. We would rather close the school than see standards slip.
We are looking foreward to seeing all the cadets come out and give it their best. We won't take less.
As far as an advanced course, not for the foreseeable future. Seriously, this Course was built by ground up by about 7 CAP members (4 of which have Active Duty jobs as well), cordinating with the Active Duty personnel and the State Director to make this work. With my job, I literally do nothing but Army, Civil Air Patrol, CCOC and when I can- sleep.
Lt Seng, do you foresee a general AFSOC orientation course at Hurlburt in the future? Something that will cover all Commando AFSCs?
As I understand, most of the AFSCs involved are short on manning and offer high incentives for enlistment/commission. Perhaps AFSOC could have a basic Spec Ops Orientation school for 1-2 weeks that will introduce TCC, Pararescue, TACP and Combat Weather?
Originally, that's what this course was: Special Tactics Orientation Course (STOC) It was the AF that changed it to specifically Combat Control.
This week has gone by soo fast, and as I type this, the cadets are getting ready for graduation. As they will attest to, this was a very rewarding, and very INTENSE.
More will follow after all is said and done.
CCOC went off very well. Out of the ten students that qualified, three smoked the PAS Test, and all the other seven were extremely close, just a few seconds of time, or a few reps of an exercise. CMSgt Hoye, the Senior Enlisted Manager of ALL Air Force Special Tactics was there to take the PAST anlong with the Students. He was also the guest speaker at graduation. It was an impressive sight; I assure you. He came qall the way from Hulburt(sp) Field FL to see this.
All the cadets love the enitre course( except some of the PT ;D ) They can not wait until next year, as they want to do it again.
More to follow.
Quote from: RogueLeader on July 27, 2009, 01:47:09 PMAll the cadets love the enitre course( except some of the PT ;D ) They can not wait until next year, as they want to do it again.
Masochists. ;D
Congratulations! :clap: I'm really happy to hear the program went well and that Ma Blue is taking notice.
Congratulations on the program and though I haven't had the chance to debrief the cadet that attended from my unit (C/MSgt Pinchuk), it sounds and looks (great facebook page!) like it went as well as could have.
I am very proud that the CCT and Special Tactics community got a chance to show their way of life to these cadets and hopefully inspire some of them to be the best at no matter what they choose to do in the future!
Hey, maybe you guys will get some good recruits out of this too.
Now cadet Pinchuk has expressed an interest in this as a career field, but he's also said he'd like to do ROTC and commission before entering it. Is there an officer career field in Combat Control, similar to the CRO in Pararescue? What would be his option/s?
A combat control officer field does exist. It is called a (STO) Special Tactics Officer.
One thing that really put people off of applying was the swim. The requirement was 200 meteres in ten minutes. All of the times were between 3:30 and 4:45 min. It is all very reachable, if you know what it is you are trying to acheive.
This voyrse went off extremely well, and we are already refining the process, and making it 'more available" for next year.
More to follow.
Is an advanced course or cadet staff position possible for next year? Cadet Pinchuk would like to continue with the CCOC field.
One thing that really put people off of applying was the swim. The requirement was 200 meteres in ten minutes. All of the times were between 3:30 and 4:45 min. It is all very reachable, if you know what it is you are trying to acheive.
This voyrse went off extremely well, and we are already refining the process, and making it 'more available" for next year.
More to follow.
I swim about 2500 yrds 2-3 times per week. The hardest part of swimming for fitness is learning HOW to swim for fitness. I would encourage any cadet who is interested in CCOC or anything related to infantry, SOF, etc. to learn how to swim correctly. Once you have someone instruct you, you will be blown away at how effortless it can become. I see people in the pool punching and kicking the water and after 75 yards they are drying off and walking away defeated because they have swallowed half of the pool. Swimming for fitness is not swimming in your backyard pool for fun.
I believe the minimum swim qual for most military branches when you are trying out for Recon, Para Rescue, etc is 500 meters usually in about 12:30-13:00 min. The pool is usually where people decide whatever they are trying out for isnt for them.
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 07, 2009, 06:21:29 PM
Is an advanced course or cadet staff position possible for next year? Cadet Pinchuk would like to continue with the CCOC field.
Right now, no there is not. That said, and as he was told before he left here, that they can attend as many times as they make it past selection. Due to the nature of the course, only Senior Members will be on staff and only current/former military will be allowed to be instructors. This is not a slight against anybody, but due to what we are trying to accomplish; you need the BTDT experiences.
I saw what Cadet Pinchuk did, and he is more than capable of aceing the long PAS Test. I am also very glad that he wants to continue in CCOC, but please understand that this was only year 1 for CCOC. We are in the process of working up to eventually 30-40 students. This will take a while.
APJOC didn't arrive until about 20 years after PJOC was founded. Give us time.
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 08, 2009, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 07, 2009, 06:21:29 PM
Is an advanced course or cadet staff position possible for next year? Cadet Pinchuk would like to continue with the CCOC field.
Right now, no there is not. That said, and as he was told before he left here, that they can attend as many times as they make it past selection. Due to the nature of the course, only Senior Members will be on staff and only current/former military will be allowed to be instructors. This is not a slight against anybody, but due to what we are trying to accomplish; you need the BTDT experiences.
I saw what Cadet Pinchuk did, and he is more than capable of aceing the long PAS Test. I am also very glad that he wants to continue in CCOC, but please understand that this was only year 1 for CCOC. We are in the process of working up to eventually 30-40 students. This will take a while.
APJOC didn't arrive until about 20 years after PJOC was founded. Give us time.
Roger that. He said he might do the PJOC next year for comparison and a challenge. Were they qualified in small arms? If they were, were they authorized any devices/ribbons?
I know that some did qualify, but not sure exatlly sure- I had to be at work. No, they are not authorized any ribbon or medal.
Quote from: RogueLeader on September 01, 2009, 06:26:53 PM
I know that some did qualify, but not sure exatlly sure- I had to be at work. No, they are not authorized any ribbon or medal.
Any way you guys could provide NRA qualifications for next year?
I doubt it, but will check.