Unlucky Lindy - May 2022

[Eclipse]

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Booklet_2021__Web_2110AE280C87C.pdf
August 2021, Page 4
"Although Charles Lindbergh's incredible feat of airmanship as the first to fly solo
nonstop across the Atlantic remains a milestone in aviation history, his legacy of
racial bias conflicts with CAP's Core Values."

https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-cadet-lindberg-ribbon


https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/aerospace-education/curriculum/downloads


https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/aerospace-education/curriculum/educational-products


"Reading, word fun, geography, history, and math are are used in the activities to teach elementary students about the exciting and daring life of Charles A. Lindbergh"

[etodd]

So tired of cancel culture. Totally ignoring the good someone has done, if the cancel culture folks can find something bad. George Washington, and so many others. All their contributions being erased due to faults.  You can educate on the bad points without erasing them from history. Who among us is blameless, perfect and pure? Certainly not me. I guess after I'm gone, someone will cancel me out for something, and my name will be "unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of men for all time."

[Jester]

So tired of cancel culture. Totally ignoring the good someone has done, if the cancel culture folks can find something bad. George Washington, and so many others. All their contributions being erased due to faults.  You can educate on the bad points without erasing them from history. Who among us is blameless, perfect and pure? Certainly not me. I guess after I'm gone, someone will cancel me out for something, and my name will be "unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of men for all time."

You can learn about the good things someone has done and their contributions to a specific area while also not naming an award after them if they don't represent our core values.  I don't know why everyone is all up in arms about a Nazi sympathizing, anti-Semitic piece of trash (leaving the sketchy kidnapping and murder of his own child out of it).

They "canceled" that dirtbag in his own hometown in the 1930s by pulling his name off the water tower.  This isn't new, CAP just has a cultural propensity towards letting pilots get away with whatever they want.

[flyboy53]

Instead of lingering on this issue, the better solution is to simply move on. Why not suggest a new person to honor and submit it through channels.

[Eclipse]

the better solution is to simply move on

Which was my intention with this thread - to point out that 9+ months after this was decided and published
NHQ still hasn't been able to find someone with FrontPage to update the various websites and complete the
purge, not to mention notifying VG and for that matter the Smithsonian.

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/ribbon-charles-lindbergh-achievement-civil-air-patrol/nasm_A19840097060

"was received" being the important phrase there ↑.

I keep bringing this stuff to light because for all the posturing about "standard websites" and information management and "excellence",
and having on far to many occasions seeing well-intentioned, hard-working volunteers
threatened with freezes, stand-downs, and sometimes even disciplinary actions, being brought to literal tears
over an honest mistake or more often something someone who "new bettor" just made up on the spot, yet
NHQ's own house is in no better shape then anyone else's, and it is seemingly incapable of doing the follow-up
work of websites and publications management to insure information provided is actually correct.

And worse, it's a lot of "not invented here" when people offer to help.

Then they get to "play Army" again when some poor cadet's mom reads the website,
does what it says, and the kid shows up in BDUs with a flag on the shoulder in 2022.

[flyboy53]

Point taken.

The issue is an organizational culture thing as long as I have been a member but you don't like the WIWAC/WINASM reference.

It is, however, a symptom of a greater issue of failings of the paid leadership/staff in the management of volunteers and no accountability -- or when someone up the chain of command makes a knee-jerk reaction to a issue without offering a solution....

[jeders]

[good stuff]...or when someone up the chain of command makes a knee-jerk reaction to a issue without offering a solution....

I think that it's less of a knee-jerk reaction, as anyone who was watching could see it coming for a mile, and more of a larger cultural issue that we have in CAP of information silos, i.e. not-invented-here syndrome. This was a decision made by NHQ/CP, but with no evident coordination with PA/MAC, IT, AE, etc. These situations will continue to happen until we, as an organization, stop working in silos and start reaching out to other departments/sections/units.

[Ned]

[good stuff]...or when someone up the chain of command makes a knee-jerk reaction to a issue without offering a solution....

I think that it's less of a knee-jerk reaction, as anyone who was watching could see it coming for a mile, and more of a larger cultural issue that we have in CAP of information silos, i.e. not-invented-here syndrome. This was a decision made by NHQ/CP, but with no evident coordination with PA/MAC, IT, AE, etc. These situations will continue to happen until we, as an organization, stop working in silos and start reaching out to other departments/sections/units.

While it was a decision initially recommended by CP, I can assure you that it was a well coordinated staff process, including the shops you mentioned.  I was a part of the process.

What Bob has correctly pointed out is that we at NHQ could improve when it comes to updating our web pages.  I have asked the other sections to take a look at this specific issue.

Ned Lee, Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

[AirDX]

1. I hadn't heard about this until this morning, when one of our cadets on wing CAC mentioned they were looking for a replacement. I looked at the "Cadet Super Chart" on the NHQ website. Still shows Lindbergh. And they wonder why we are dazed and confused in the field.

2. Don't look too closely at some of General Arnold's statements before desegregation. He might go too.

[Eclipse]

I looked at the "Cadet Super Chart" on the NHQ website. Still shows Lindbergh. And they wonder why we are dazed and confused in the field.

The chart was updated with the announcement last year:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/stripes-to-diamonds

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Super_Chart__Oct_2021_fix__Letter_S_4F8653B60DC97.pdf

What you were probably looking at was the old one, which is the first link if you Google it:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/VA_60100_2019_Single_Page_10A4ECA681B16.pdf

However that raises the ongoing issue of NHQ's lack of updating outdated documents,
instead assigning a new number in the CMS and leaving the old one still accessible.

It's been whined about for 20 years, yet there you are.

[AirDX]

What you were probably looking at was the old one, which is the first link if you Google it:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/VA_60100_2019_Single_Page_10A4ECA681B16.pdf

Yep, that's exactly right. I'll bet that's how most of us get to it. I'm certainly not drilling down through a bunch of CAP website pages. When I saw the link that Google brought up went to gocivilairpatrol.com, I figured that was it. There I go ASSuming again. But yeah, what you said.  It's a problem.

[GroundHawg]

I assume General Billy Mitchell is next on the chopping block?

[PHall]

I assume General Billy Mitchell is next on the chopping block?

For what reason?

[flyboy53]

I assume General Billy Mitchell is next on the chopping block?

For what reason?

Why not leave that decision to the cadets and the cadet program people.

Perhaps, too, the lesson here is to ensure that there is a coordinated effort at all levels to avoid the problem as originally discussed. We should make sure that we as an organization don't get complacent and are more vigilant to those things that seem to fall through the cracks -- which I'm certain was the original intent of this thread.

If we as an organization are to continue the practice of naming awards after aeronautical standard bearers. Times change. There have been a number of amazing men and women who have blazed new trails and perhaps we should consider updating the awards from time to time to reflect a new slate of heroes.