Unit Patch vs Higher Command Patch in CAP

[Okayish Aviator]

So getting back to what the original thread was about, here's what you're likely to see with regard to the OCP when it's approved (and it will be eventually):

Right Sleeve Velcro

• US Flag 3x2 Full Color (may or may not be mandatory but everyone is going that direction)
• Attachment 4 patch like NCSA or Unit Emblem for Unit Assigned (Squadron or Group) as long as they meet the current 110-3 and are approved under the current standard.

Left Sleeve Velcro

• Graduated commander emblem on top, centered
• Wing or Region Assigned emblem

The other option they may go with is the opposite side flag on the left so it matches the flight duty uniform and requires less patch variation between uniforms.

Here are some of the benefits though for the OCP that I personally like:

• Now is more readily available as a USAF style uniform with 3 branches now using it. (Army, USAF, and USSF)
• Velcro for name tapes and rank make things easy for cadets. You got a new cadet and a bunch of OCP's in storage? Have them buy their name tapes and slap them on the uniform, off they go. Rank swaps are easy for promoting every couple of months.
• Way more comfortable and plenty of acceptable suppliers. It's not going away for a while like ABU's did. Congressional mandate prevents a new uniform unless all branches go to it. Joint uniforms for the win.
• Arm patches will be easy to change out and the pockets are big enough for phones and other stuff. I routinely change out my arm patch on my flight suit between NCSA patches and wing patch or specialty patches depending on mood. Now everyone would be able to do it.
• Black boots look better than they do with ABU's. Lets face it, black boots go on every uniform, they're here to stay, and that's not a bad thing.
• Sizing and fitment is better.

One thing I might be willing to entertain now that we've seen the space force do it, for cadet Officers and NCO's, we could go to a 2x3 Velcro rank patch so that we could get away from the metal rank on utilities. We'd still use them on dress uniforms so they'd still need them, but the Velcro or sew on rank could be bigger and it would be easier to make out ranks for various cadets.

Image for reference:

[Okayish Aviator]

And just because I'm a nerd about this stuff, here's what I'd propose it look like if we did 2x3 rank for cadet enlisted. I may have also made a minor change to the cadet officers...

These would all be embroidered instead of metal. A blank 2x3 would be used for airman basic.

[PHall]

And just because I'm a nerd about this stuff, here's what I'd propose it look like if we did 2x3 rank for cadet enlisted. I may have also made a minor change to the cadet officers...

These would all be embroidered instead of metal. A blank 2x3 would be used for airman basic.

This is all available right now for wear on the green fleece as are Name and CAP tapes.

[Okayish Aviator]

This is all available right now for wear on the green fleece as are Name and CAP tapes.

That is a benefit for the OCPs. It's all the fleece stuff they already make. Makes it all easy. Everything is 2"x2" though for rank at the moment. I've seen a pretty good mock up of the uniform. I won't share it though without permission.

[GroundHawg]

This is all available right now for wear on the green fleece as are Name and CAP tapes.

That is a benefit for the OCPs. It's all the fleece stuff they already make. Makes it all easy. Everything is 2"x2" though for rank at the moment. I've seen a pretty good mock up of the uniform. I won't share it though without permission.

So have you at least asked for permission? Inquiring minds need to know...

[Okayish Aviator]

So have you at least asked for permission? Inquiring minds need to know...

I have not, but I can.

[TheSkyHornet]

Why does someone need permission to share a mock uniform that isn't even used by CAP on a web forum not managed by CAP?

[PHall]

Maybe the person who made the uniform doesn't want to share it.

[TheSkyHornet]

So why t

Maybe the person who made the uniform doesn't want to share it.

So when then are we even talking about it...?

How many times have we had an OCP discussion at this point?

[Okayish Aviator]

Why does someone need permission to share a mock uniform that isn't even used by CAP on a web forum not managed by CAP?

Sorry it took so long to get back on here, life and actual CAP stuff takes precedence. So, the image I was shown was shared in person and not sent to me. To share it I'd have to ask and did. This person doesn't want to share the actual image. That said, I have some OCP's and extra accoutrements laying around so I was able to make a fairly good approximation based on what I remember with some pins to keep stuff in place. Should be pretty close to what actually comes about. Obviously, blanked out some of the basic identifying markings.



Some things I'd expect:
-Nametapes/CAP Tape and Rank can be either all sewn on or all velcro, no mixing of the two.
-Badges sewn on (probably because they're too small otherwise.)
-Flag and a Sqd, Gp, NCSA or other attachment 4 patch (command council etc.) on right side
-Wing or Region patch on Left side
-Black boots stay since they have so much commonality with other uniforms. That said, they don't look bad. Better than ABU's/Black Boots.
-Graduated commanders would wear the commander patch above the wing/region patch on the left velcro panel.
-Current commanders would put them above the name tape I'd assume as is the norm.

But wait there's more! Commercially available all over the place and in plentiful supply at surplus stores and AAFES. WAAAAAAYYYYY more comfortable than the ABU's and the sizing options are better for long term use by cadets for those that fit in the smaller uniforms. In other words they'll get more time out of each uniform.

Rank for cadets will be easy too whether we use a blank tab with metal cadet enlisted rank like we have available already or go to an embroidered version like what we discussed above. Everything is already made for the fleece so there's no real change in what needs to be supplied from vanguard. All the sew on stuff still works. Personally, I like the idea of embroidered so the cadets aren't losing pins during hard use and poking themselves with the pins.

I know the process has started, so it's just a matter of time. We all know how long it takes to get the approvals to go through. I will say though given the push to redo the heraldry stuff with the 110-3 that just came out, they'll probably require any unit emblem being worn to have that approval before hand.

[NIN]

Not adding SKUs to our favorite preferred vendor is a good thing: pining cadet rank on the blank tab works.

[PHall]

Not adding SKUs to our favorite preferred vendor is a good thing: pining cadet rank on the blank tab works.

Though I bet that Scamguard will have them available within 30 days, if not sooner, of the approval date of the uniform.
They're like AAFES, they never miss a profit making opportunity.

[Okayish Aviator]

Not adding SKUs to our favorite preferred vendor is a good thing: pining cadet rank on the blank tab works.

Though I bet that Scamguard will have them available within 30 days, if not sooner, of the approval date of the uniform.
They're like AAFES, they never miss a profit making opportunity.

I wouldn't be surprised for a new sku especially since the old ones wouldn't be getting retired. But I totally see it on the logistical side being easier.

[Jester]

Not adding SKUs to our favorite preferred vendor is a good thing: pining cadet rank on the blank tab works.

Then units need to buy a ton of blank tabs and start permanently mounting their existing pin-ons to them by bending the pins.  Swapping them back and forth on the same tab is going to screw up the tab and the ranks (I've had Vanguard pins bend trying to put them on a shirt fresh out of the package).

Embroidered is the way to go and I doubt VG cares.

[PHall]

Not adding SKUs to our favorite preferred vendor is a good thing: pining cadet rank on the blank tab works.

Then units need to buy a ton of blank tabs and start permanently mounting their existing pin-ons to them by bending the pins.  Swapping them back and forth on the same tab is going to screw up the tab and the ranks (I've had Vanguard pins bend trying to put them on a shirt fresh out of the package).

Embroidered is the way to go and I doubt VG cares.

They will care if they think they can make some money on it. That's always been their MO.

[Jester]

Not adding SKUs to our favorite preferred vendor is a good thing: pining cadet rank on the blank tab works.

Then units need to buy a ton of blank tabs and start permanently mounting their existing pin-ons to them by bending the pins.  Swapping them back and forth on the same tab is going to screw up the tab and the ranks (I've had Vanguard pins bend trying to put them on a shirt fresh out of the package).

Embroidered is the way to go and I doubt VG cares.

They will care if they think they can make some money on it. That's always been their MO.

So I doubt they'll waste any time offering embroidered ranks because they know they'll sell like hotcakes. 

[Okayish Aviator]

Not adding SKUs to our favorite preferred vendor is a good thing: pining cadet rank on the blank tab works.

Then units need to buy a ton of blank tabs and start permanently mounting their existing pin-ons to them by bending the pins.  Swapping them back and forth on the same tab is going to screw up the tab and the ranks (I've had Vanguard pins bend trying to put them on a shirt fresh out of the package).

Embroidered is the way to go and I doubt VG cares.

They will care if they think they can make some money on it. That's always been their MO.

So I doubt they'll waste any time offering embroidered ranks because they know they'll sell like hotcakes. 

That's my perspective too. Plus, if we went to a 2x3 for cadet enlisted, and embroidered... They're bigger and easy to see especially for those of us who got their first membership cards on chiseled stone slabs.

Space force guardians are calling the 2x3 "The Slab"

[SarDragon]

I doubt you have a stone card. Those went away in the 70s.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

[Okayish Aviator]

I doubt you have a stone card. Those went away in the 70s.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

I did not, although sometimes I feel like it. My CAPID is in the 3XXXXX so new members are as far away from me as those with CAPIDs in the 0XXXXX. 😵😅

[baronet68]

I doubt you have a stone card. Those went away in the 70s.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

I did not, although sometimes I feel like it. My CAPID is in the 3XXXXX so new members are as far away from me as those with CAPIDs in the 0XXXXX. 😵😅

Well, there aren't any members in the 0xxxxx range.  When the renumbering of existing members took place (because it was realized that using Social Security numbers wasn't such a good idea) they listed out everyone in order by SSN and then started issuing new numbers beginning at 100000. 

As a result, because SSNs issued on the east coast are closer to zero than those issued on the west coast, there were practically brand new members on the east coast who were issued CAPID numbers that were lower than 40+ year members on the west coast. 

In my case, being from Washington state (where SSNs start with 53x-xx-xxx) meant that my CAPID 141xxx was lower that basically everyone from Oregon (where SSNs start with 54x-xx-xxxx).

By the way, the person with CAPID 100000 is still a member today.