future CAP OCP uniform: blue name tapes w/ camo pattern rank?

Started by supertigerCH, March 22, 2024, 01:02:44 AM

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supertigerCH



The following is only one idea (amongst many)... just food for thought and discussion. 


It may still be some time yet... before the Civil Air Patrol adopts a version of the OCP uniform.  Nevertheless, some photographs posted online (of the South Carolina State Guard) shows what might be a possible way that C.A.P. could also wear the OCP uniform: 


1.)  dark air force blue name tapes... with silver lettering (same as those used on current ABU and BBDU).

2.)  OCP camouflage rank patch in the center of the shirt/jacket. 


Looking at the way that South Carolina's defense force wore the uniform gives a clear example of what it would look like.  The photographs can be found on the following web page: 

(click the link below)... 


https://statedefenseforce.com/main/2021/05/27/sc-state-guard-soldier-receives-fbi-community-leadership-award/

HandsomeWalt_USMC

This has been beat to death both here and on reddit. The proposal is at HQAF working its way through channels. It will be whatever the proposal says+whatever changes HQAF dictates. Just be patient and see what comes down the pike.
HANDSOME SENDS

Semper Fidelis

"PRIDE IS CONTAGIOUS"

NIN

Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 22, 2024, 03:13:20 PMThis has been beat to death both here and on reddit. The proposal is at HQAF working its way through channels. It will be whatever the proposal says+whatever changes HQAF dictates. Just be patient and see what comes down the pike.

When 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude, National Bubba
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Shuman 14

Walt, don't stop me mid-swing, I'm trying to hit the horse, it's not dead enough!  ;D

That being said, we already have everything we need to transition to OCPs. Nametape, CAP-Tape, and Rank patch all exist in Silver on Blue with Velcro.

Full-color Flag and most CAP Patches exist with Velcro as well.

Sew-on Rank and Badges in Silver on Blue, again, already exist as well.

The only thing HQ-USAF needs to dictate is tee-shirt color (Coyote, Black or Dark Navy-blue) and boot color (Coyote, Black or both).

Any of the options laid out will look fine and professional, yet provide a clear differentiation from our counterparts in the USAF.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

NIN

Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 04:06:26 PMThat being said, we already have everything we need to transition to OCPs. Nametape, CAP-Tape, and Rank patch all exist in Silver on Blue with Velcro.

Basically, this.

There's almost no need to create any more SKUs unless we go with embroidered cadet enlisted insginia.  We have 98+% of it already.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude, National Bubba
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Shuman 14

Quoteembroidered cadet enlisted insignia

They might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

supertigerCH

Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 22, 2024, 03:13:20 PMThis has been beat to death both here and on reddit. The proposal is at HQAF working its way through channels. It will be whatever the proposal says+whatever changes HQAF dictates. Just be patient and see what comes down the pike.


@HandsomeWalt: 


Agree with this completely!  Whatever is worked out & decided upon... we will wear. 

Just sharing ideas & thoughts.  (noticed it on a website while surfing the internet)


priority when it comes to uniforms... is utility.  the precise colors (or shades of colors) are almost always a secondary detail... especially for a civilian / non-combat entity such as Civil Air Patrol. 

(Personally, for outdoor work... I'm a fan of the same clothes that I wear to go camping or fishing)



NIN

Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 07:40:47 PMThey might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.

And pinning metal cadet rank on a blank tab that's then going to be attached directly over your sternum? Ehhhh. I think there's better ways to do that.
 
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude, National Bubba
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

HandsomeWalt_USMC

I've never understood the blank rank square. They could have pinned directly to the velcro OR offered embroidered cadet enlisted rank insignia with ease. Yeah, it's one more thing for Cadets to buy but it's not a massive expense.
HANDSOME SENDS

Semper Fidelis

"PRIDE IS CONTAGIOUS"

PHall

Where I have seen the blank square used with metal grade insignia usually the pins were bent over.
Yes one time use but the danger of injury is much less.

HandsomeWalt_USMC

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but cadet rank is sold in pairs, yes? So unless a cadet has a goretex as well as a fleece, they're paying for two additional pins, one pair, instead of buying one single embroidered insignia. This just seems like a sensible change we could make with the OCP transition. Cadets could purchase the exact amount of insignia they need for various garments. Don't mind me, just thinking out loud now.
HANDSOME SENDS

Semper Fidelis

"PRIDE IS CONTAGIOUS"

supertigerCH

Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 06:44:57 PM
Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 04:06:26 PMThat being said, we already have everything we need to transition to OCPs. Nametape, CAP-Tape, and Rank patch all exist in Silver on Blue with Velcro.

Basically, this.

There's almost no need to create any more SKUs unless we go with embroidered cadet enlisted insginia.  We have 98+% of it already.


this is very true!

SarDragon

Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 07:40:47 PM
Quoteembroidered cadet enlisted insignia

They might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.

Possibly cheaper, but a WHOLE lot less convenient. We had sew-on rank WIWAC, and it was a real pain, even considering the less frequent promotion intervals. The sewing jobs were inconsistent, and positioning was hit and miss.

On top of that, the sew-on stripes weren't as reusable as the pin-on rank. Once sewn on, washed a few times, and given an ironed-in crease, they weren't easily removed and reused on another cadet's uniform.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

arajca

Quote from: SarDragon on March 24, 2024, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 07:40:47 PM
Quoteembroidered cadet enlisted insignia

They might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.

Possibly cheaper, but a WHOLE lot less convenient. We had sew-on rank WIWAC, and it was a real pain, even considering the less frequent promotion intervals. The sewing jobs were inconsistent, and positioning was hit and miss.

On top of that, the sew-on stripes weren't as reusable as the pin-on rank. Once sewn on, washed a few times, and given an ironed-in crease, they weren't easily removed and reused on another cadet's uniform.
I think you're think of something different. I believe the discussion of embroidered cadet stripes is they are embroidered on a fabric square with a velcro backing to put on the OCP tab for grade insignia, like the military does, not sew-on the sleeves.

ML07

Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 03:59:42 PMWhen 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.

Does "all" mean that some members (i.e. Wing/Regions CCs) already know what the changes are?

HandsomeWalt_USMC

Quote from: ML07 on March 24, 2024, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 03:59:42 PMWhen 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.

Does "all" mean that some members (i.e. Wing/Regions CCs) already know what the changes are?

I'm sure that some members within the NUC, Command Council, etc already have an inkling what is in the proposal. That's irrelevant. What is finally decided and disseminated to the wider membership will be made known at the appropriate time.
HANDSOME SENDS

Semper Fidelis

"PRIDE IS CONTAGIOUS"

Stonewall

Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 24, 2024, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: ML07 on March 24, 2024, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 03:59:42 PMWhen 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.

Does "all" mean that some members (i.e. Wing/Regions CCs) already know what the changes are?

I'm sure that some members within the NUC, Command Council, etc already have an inkling what is in the proposal. That's irrelevant. What is finally decided and disseminated to the wider membership will be made known at the appropriate time.

I literally shared what was in the DRAFT copy in the other thread (Winter Command Council).  90% of the information going around is incorrect RUMINT.

Again, OCPs with same (current) color scheme for all insignia with coyote colored boots. As of 1 March it wasn't even sitting with the AF, nor had it been reviewed by CAP/CC. Once it is reviewed and endorsed, THEN it'll go to the AF for consideration.

Once again, this was at the uniform breakout session at the Winter Command Council with about 25 others sitting there, including the CAP/XO and three members of the NUC.

OCPs are coming, unless someone puts a stop to them OR someone denies the current DRAFT. When? Could be six months, could be 18 months. That is what we do not know.
Serving since 1987.

Shuman 14

Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 23, 2024, 09:04:32 PMI've never understood the blank rank square. They could have pinned directly to the velcro OR offered embroidered cadet enlisted rank insignia with ease. Yeah, it's one more thing for Cadets to buy but it's not a massive expense.

As a SMWOG, a bank square is what I wear on my winter coat and on my plate carrier/gear vest when in the field.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Matthew Klempner

From what Maj Gen. Edward D. Phelka has stated at the Pacific Region Confrence, Phelka is currently communicating with the U.S. Air Force to adopt this uniform in the few years from now.

Shuman 14

Quote from: Matthew Klempner on May 14, 2024, 07:13:23 PMfew years from now.

 ::)

Seriously, there's no need to delay. The COVID-19 shortages are over. The Army (AC, RC, NG), the Air Force (AC, RC, NG) and the Space Force (AC, RC, NG) have ALL completed their transitions to OCPs. The uniform is readily available from AAFES and numerous commercial vendors.

So why the delay?
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present