New to CAP - Question About Rank

[coshell]

As I read through these posts (and I got bored after a while) I notice that most, if not all, of the members who say that promotion to Capt is "easy" are past cadets, with years of CAP time.  For those of us who join as a SM, it's not so easy.

I, personally, have a much harder time with the ECI-13 than with the "real stuff".  For someone who has spent a lot of time with in the cadet program, it will be easy.  The ECI-13 course is basically the entire cadet program (tests included) packaged up into one course.

Fortunately, I had good advisers, and have been studying the study guide whenever I get a chance (even though I have another year and a half TIG before I'm eligible for promotion).

Yes, I think rank is important, because when I meet a CAP member, the rank on their shoulders is a quick guide for me to know what they can do, or have done.  In the field especially, this is helpful when I don't have time to interview a GTM for my team.  An NCO could have a month of CAP experience, or 10 years, I don't know.  But if a Major is on my team, I have a pretty good idea of what he/she is able to do.

[DNall]

As I read through these posts (and I got bored after a while) I notice that most, if not all, of the members who say that promotion to Capt is "easy" are past cadets, with years of CAP time.  For those of us who join as a SM, it's not so easy.

I, personally, have a much harder time with the ECI-13 than with the "real stuff".  For someone who has spent a lot of time with in the cadet program, it will be easy.  The ECI-13 course is basically the entire cadet program (tests included) packaged up into one course.

Fortunately, I had good advisers, and have been studying the study guide whenever I get a chance (even though I have another year and a half TIG before I'm eligible for promotion).

Yes, I think rank is important, because when I meet a CAP member, the rank on their shoulders is a quick guide for me to know what they can do, or have done.  In the field especially, this is helpful when I don't have time to interview a GTM for my team.  An NCO could have a month of CAP experience, or 10 years, I don't know.  But if a Major is on my team, I have a pretty good idea of what he/she is able to do.

I joined as a SM, and it is extremely easy to make Capt, all you have to do is hang out. AFIADL13 is a joke. Maybe you hadn't been in school for a while, but it's very few professions in the world that don't require reading & study to maintain skill. We can't have idiot officers. Instead we have courses that in theory weed out the morons. Deal with it, and realize real officers do that much in well under a week - you can do it in a year.

[ddelaney103]

Well, both of you are right.

ECI-13 is not a very difficult course, but it is a major roadblock to Capt.  It is the first check block that requires something beyond "warming a seat."

For people who have a college degree, ECI-13 is fairly easy: if you answer the end of chapter questions and take the "test exam" without problems, you should have no problem.

If you haven't had exposure to higher education, the course can be tougher.  Also, there's little reward to passing.  ALS, NCOA and SNCOA all were gateways to better jobs at higher pay.  Being a CAP Capt gets you nothing but some bragging rights.  Unless you want to be on the NB, you don't need ECI-13.

[ddelaney103]

As I read through these posts (and I got bored after a while) I notice that most, if not all, of the members who say that promotion to Capt is "easy" are past cadets, with years of CAP time.  For those of us who join as a SM, it's not so easy.

I, personally, have a much harder time with the ECI-13 than with the "real stuff".  For someone who has spent a lot of time with in the cadet program, it will be easy.  The ECI-13 course is basically the entire cadet program (tests included) packaged up into one course.

Fortunately, I had good advisers, and have been studying the study guide whenever I get a chance (even though I have another year and a half TIG before I'm eligible for promotion).

Yes, I think rank is important, because when I meet a CAP member, the rank on their shoulders is a quick guide for me to know what they can do, or have done.  In the field especially, this is helpful when I don't have time to interview a GTM for my team.  An NCO could have a month of CAP experience, or 10 years, I don't know.  But if a Major is on my team, I have a pretty good idea of what he/she is able to do.

I joined as a SM, and it is extremely easy to make Capt, all you have to do is hang out. AFIADL13 is a joke. Maybe you hadn't been in school for a while, but it's very few professions in the world that don't require reading & study to maintain skill. We can't have idiot officers. Instead we have courses that in theory weed out the morons. Deal with it, and realize real officers do that much in well under a week - you can do it in a year.

Trust me, if the purpose of CAP PD is to "weed out the morons," it's not working.  I've been to a few NB's and it would appear Wilson Awards don't even weed them out.

[DNall]

I would tend to think the same thing. The content presented is necessary to be an even remotely functional member, much less officer. However, they do at least have the material rather than no requirements to advance.

[coshell]

For people who have a college degree, ECI-13 is fairly easy

Thank you.  Actually, I do have a college degree from the University of Denver.  Maybe the test is easy.  But as the TCO of my squadron, even though I havn't taken it yet, it still makes me nervous when I administer it to other people who have Bachelors, Masters, and Doctorates and they sweat through it.

AFIADL13 is a joke.

Perhaps it wasn't administered correctly when you took it DNall.

[FARRIER]

For people who have a college degree, ECI-13 is fairly easy

Thank you.  Actually, I do have a college degree from the University of Denver.  Maybe the test is easy.  But as the TCO of my squadron, even though I havn't taken it yet, it still makes me nervous when I administer it to other people who have Bachelors, Masters, and Doctorates and they sweat through it.

AFIADL13 is a joke.

Perhaps it wasn't administered correctly when you took it DNall.

:clap:

[IceNine]

just a little input, again let me restate that if you dont want to be an officer DON'T...in my years I have seen everything from E-3's up to E-9's all of them were awesome and it's nice to fall back on that active/reserve experience which is something we don't get in CAP.  You won't be held back as mentioned before on the Prof. Dev. Stuff but you will be on promotions. Achieving the Wilson award is possible,  It has been done before (nesa attendee's know him well).  He however chose to transfer to CAP Officer Rank because he got tired of the "political" aspect that is bound to rear is ugly head in a volunteer organization based soley on training opportunities that we CHOOSE, to endure based on our WANT to succeed in this organization.  There is the flip side of the coin.  If you never want to move outside of level 1 don't there are tons of people that are here for the "kids" and don't care what happens with their grade.  So the bottom line is do what feels right...  In time all lines can be blurred, it just might take a little more doing.

[DNall]

AFIADL13 is a joke.

Perhaps it wasn't administered correctly when you took it DNall.

What? Is there something in the reg about juggling flaming chainsaws over my head that my old Sq CC missed? It's a silly little test over material a lot easier than what we require of cadets. Maybe people have been out of school a long time & have some test anxiety, I don't know, but there is no challenge whatever in that course, and no one I've ever seen with half a dozen brain cells has had trouble with the material or the test. It's tedious to be sure, but it's not hard. The content does need a bit of an update, but honestly if you aren't able to do it I have serious doubt as to your usefulness as a member.

[RogueLeader]

If members are having a hard time with the test, because of test anxiety, help them deal with it. The anxiety- not the test   Give test taking skills sessions if needed.

[coshell]

AFIADL13 is a joke.

Perhaps it wasn't administered correctly when you took it DNall.

What? Is there something in the reg about juggling flaming chainsaws over my head that my old Sq CC missed? It's a silly little test over material a lot easier than what we require of cadets. Maybe people have been out of school a long time & have some test anxiety, I don't know, but there is no challenge whatever in that course, and no one I've ever seen with half a dozen brain cells has had trouble with the material or the test. It's tedious to be sure, but it's not hard. The content does need a bit of an update, but honestly if you aren't able to do it I have serious doubt as to your usefulness as a member.

I am going to take that with as much salt as I can muster.  First off, why was your CC administering the test?  That should only happen when no TCO has been appointed, and I have yet to find a squadron without one.  Perhaps your crass attitude scared everyone else in your squadron away.  Oh yeah, your "old Sq CC"?  Did he/she leave too?

Secondly, I resent your implications that the fine ladies and gentlemen of CAP in general, and of my squadron specifically, have less than six brain cells.

I'm not saying that the ECI-13 is rocket science.  But neither is the USAFA.  Maybe I won't have trouble taking the test.  But that doesn't mean that I should view it as a walk in the park, even if I still pass.  When I take that test, I'm going to know that material inside and out.  And if it isn't important, why is it there?  I do my job to the best of my abilities, even if it's over-kill.  If I can't pass the test, well, I'll just stay an LT and make sure that I live up to the reputation "Outstanding Service" and "Wing Ground Team Member of the Year" awards.

Oh, and do you think having duty positions in three squadrons is enough, or should I just quit and let smart persons like yourself do it right.  While i'm at it, ill throw my Oustanding Service award that i done got from college out the window and jist maybe ill witdraw my aplication to the mensa club they dont nede stupid peeple lik me in there midst

[DNall]

Easy there buddy. I took that test over 10 years ago. My Sq CC from that time is the current Wg COS, the TCO was his wife & handed me the test then sat across from me while I took it, the CC at the head of the table to my right & others off doing their staff duties in & out of the room. I can't imagine a circumstance under which a test would be compromised w/o outright intentional cheating, and I can promise you that has never & will never occur anywhere near me. And I by the way didn't even have even an associates degree at that point.

The course content & test ARE a walk in the park, and the ability to easily accomplish it is a requirement to progress in CAP. I promise you SOS & ACSC are much harder. If your people are having problems with it there's either something wrong with them or they, like oyu seem to be, are being led to think it is difficult when it is absolutely not. The material in that course is LITERALLY MUCH easier than the tests we ask cadet officers to take. It's a LOT easier than taking Yeager closed book.

I don't care about your awards. I never even heard of an outstanding service or GTM of the year award. I'm glad you work hard in CAP, that's good, but dedication isn't enough. As you move up you have to be increasingly well educated on how to be a better officer. You've been in CAP what 2-3 years? Obviously you have to improve yourself & the standards have to get increasingly harder for you to be capable of the job at the next level. I view AFIADL 13 as a joke cause it's 1/3rd of what you have to do before you show up to real OTS to start training to be a 2Lt, it's what you have to know to be functional in that training process, and I found it to be extremely simple as do a lot of people. If you want to tell me it's poorly written & needs an update & less emphasis on the linebacker campaigns, sure I agree with that. Otherwise it's easy, study, test, get over it, life just gets harder from there.

[MIKE]

DNall, strongly suggest you stop now.

[DNall]

Sure, came in just trying to state it isn't hard or that big a deal & calm the nerves, but somehow ended in a pissing match. Moving on...

[SarDragon]

OOH, harsh.

Dennis, I think you need to remember that not all things are easy to all people. We all have our strong and weak areas. Maybe one of your strengths is test taking. I know it's one of mine. Others aren't so fortunate, but they may excel in areas that seem foreign to us.

I think both of you, Dennis and Chris, need to take a bit of advice from Sgt Hulka, and "Lighten up, Francis!"

[DNall]

Oh I can promise you test-tking is not one of my particular stong suits, and like the other gentleman, I tend to take the material too seriously & get all worried in advance of the test. You see the same thing with cadets that are scared of testing cause they don't want to fail, as if that was their only chance. I've learned over time to lighten up in that regard. This particular test & course weren't that hard when I took them. I found the material somewhat interesting, read it all thru fairly quick & tested pretty soon thereafter. I think I did the multi-color highlighter thing recommended in the book, & it all came out pretty well as I recall. I did pretty well as I recall, not that I cared beyond passing, but really it's not that big a deal... and I would go so far as saying part of the reason it is there is as an inhibitor to progression by real actual idiots, not people with test anxiety or limited time, but real morons that we'd like to send on their way or at least hold back from progressing. I'm sure that is not the case with this young Lt or any of his people, and he should be too, which should result in understanding it ain't that hard so don't take it so seriously. That's what I meant to say in the first place... sorry if it came out insulting.

[coshell]

Time in CAP:  1.5 years.  Yeah, just watched a lawyer struggle through it...

[pixelwonk]

I think both of you, Dennis and Chris, need to take a bit of advice from Sgt Hulka, and "Lighten up, Francis!"

Dave, you seriously need to pick a new quote.

[SarDragon]

I think both of you, Dennis and Chris, need to take a bit of advice from Sgt Hulka, and "Lighten up, Francis!"

Dave, you seriously need to pick a new quote.

WHY? I like it. It conveys the message quite well. Be happy that I don't usually use the animated smiley, too.

Maybe I should animate one of your full size portal peeple as Sgt Hulka.

[SAR-EMT1]

Stripes was the first "war" movie I ever saw... bless it. 
ME thinks CAP needs to develop its own Urban Assault Vehicle