Oaths of Office

Major Carrales · May 30, 2007, 03:08:28 PM

Quote Commanders at all levels

I, (full name), having been appointed the _______________ commander of the United.States Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and comply with the constitution, bylaws and regulations of the United States Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter so help me God.

CAP Promotion Oath
(For officer promotions)

I, (full name), having been promoted to the grade of ____ in the United States Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and comply with the Constitution, Bylaws and regulations of The U.S. Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge all duties and responsibilities as well as obey the orders of the officers appointed over me according to regulations, so help me God.

CAP Member Oath

I, (full name), having been accepted as a member of The United States Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and comply with the Constitution, Bylaws and regulations of U.S. Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge all duties and responsibilities as well as obey the orders of the officers appointed over me according to regulations, so help me God.

Pylon · May 30, 2007, 03:12:34 PM

So is this like a suggestion that you're proposing, or something you saw elsewhere, or?

(and I think you might mean Oaths of Office)

Major Carrales · May 30, 2007, 03:15:49 PM

Quote from: Pylon on May 30, 2007, 03:12:34 PM
So is this like a suggestion that you're proposing, or something you saw elsewhere, or?

(and I think you might mean Oaths of Office)

It just came in my inbox from my Group Commander, from Wing, from Region and from the Major General himself. The Major General discussed all this at the 2007 Texas Wing Conference.

SARMedTech · May 30, 2007, 04:32:13 PM

The one flaw I see here is that the reason for asking someone to affirm rather than swear is to eliminate the necessity to say "so help me God" so as not to render the oath meaningless to those of us who happen to be of a different religion (I am a Buddhist and have been for 20 years). Even many of our courts have done away with "swearing to God" and use only the affirmation, having determined that the "swearing" is not necessary and that having a person affirm that they will carry out their duties, tell the truth, etc is sufficient.

Major Carrales · May 30, 2007, 04:47:23 PM

Quote from: SARMedTech on May 30, 2007, 04:32:13 PM
The one flaw I see here is that the reason for asking someone to affirm rather than swear is to eliminate the necessity to say "so help me God" so as not to render the oath meaningless to those of us who happen to be of a different religion (I am a Buddhist and have been for 20 years). Even many of our courts have done away with "swearing to God" and use only the affirmation, having determined that the "swearing" is not necessary and that having a person affirm that they will carry out their duties, tell the truth, etc is sufficient.

Ah...this came up at that other forum.

One might ask if the "so help me, GOD" element makes this a deal between you and God, or an affirmation before God. Think of this, if others around you believe in God, would not the saying of the oath be for them rather than for one's self.

Also, what is the definition of GOD? Supreme being? Some could say that God is infact another word for NATURE. A bit of a point I think is better left to the philosophers and theologians than to humble CAP Officers and Cadets.

In anycase, the "so help me, God" was an ad lib by George washington and remains as a tribute to him in many places.

NAYBOR · May 30, 2007, 05:16:09 PM

Personally, I don't like ANY of the above oaths. You don't swear to obey or defend the Constitution of the US, the President, the SECAF, the US itself, etc. We are a member of the AF Family. If they are going to "commission" us, I'd like it to mean more than swearing to obey the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol [sic] Constituion and By-laws" (such as: I will pay for all of my uniforms, and all the changes that occur at least 8 times a year; I will pay my CAP dues; I will not sing "Big Man in a Little Coat" when I see a certain CAP MG wearing a CAP mess dress he shouldn't be in, etc. etc.)

Dragoon · May 30, 2007, 07:23:22 PM

Quote from: NAYBOR on May 30, 2007, 05:16:09 PM
Personally, I don't like ANY of the above oaths. You don't swear to obey or defend the Constitution of the US, the President, the SECAF, the US itself, etc. We are a member of the AF Family. If they are going to "commission" us, I'd like it to mean more than swearing to obey the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol [sic] Constituion and By-laws" (such as: I will pay for all of my uniforms, and all the changes that occur at least 8 times a year; I will pay my CAP dues; I will not sing "Big Man in a Little Coat" when I see a certain CAP MG wearing a CAP mess dress he shouldn't be in, etc. etc.)

Well to be honest, the Air Force doesn't expect us to defend anything. Check out the statement of work.

I think the whole point of this is to make members aware that there are rules they ought to follow, and if they don't feel they can do that, they shouldn't be members.

I think it's possible to add some flowery stuff to the oaths to make for a better ceremony. But, the basics are there.

1. I'll follow the rules (both of CAP and the Nation).
2. I'll obey the folks in charge
3. I'll do the job I'm appointed to do.

Sounds reasonable.

Eeyore · May 30, 2007, 07:31:21 PM

Even Federal Employees swear to defend the Constitution. I don't really think that a clerk for the Department of Education is really going to go to war, but they still take an oath that says that they will defend the constitution. I think we should do the same.

Federal Government Oath of Office:
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

SARMedTech · May 30, 2007, 07:38:05 PM

What I am saying is that the God referred to in these and other oaths in the USA are referring to the Judeo-Christian notion of God, one to which i do not subscribe.

Major Carrales · May 30, 2007, 08:20:40 PM

Quote from: SARMedTech on May 30, 2007, 07:38:05 PM
What I am saying is that the God referred to in these and other oaths in the USA are referring to the Judeo-Christian notion of God, one to which i do not subscribe.

Are you sure...where does it say that?

SARMedTech · May 30, 2007, 08:29:10 PM

Quote from: Major Carrales on May 30, 2007, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: SARMedTech on May 30, 2007, 07:38:05 PM
What I am saying is that the God referred to in these and other oaths in the USA are referring to the Judeo-Christian notion of God, one to which i do not subscribe.

Are you sure...where does it say that?

Well, Im fairly certain they arent talking about Vishnu, and as another member pointed out, if this line is left in as an homage to George Washington, I somehow dount that he was talking about Zoroaster either. Also the fact that when Presidents take the oath of office, they place their hand on the Bible so its a fair bet they arent talking about Allah. Just a hunch.

Pylon · May 30, 2007, 08:35:13 PM

Quote from: SARMedTech on May 30, 2007, 08:29:10 PM
Well, Im fairly certain they arent talking about Vishnu, and as another member pointed out, if this line is left in as an homage to George Washington, I somehow dount that he was talking about Zoroaster either. Also the fact that when Presidents take the oath of office, they place their hand on the Bible so its a fair bet they arent talking about Allah. Just a hunch.

Frankly, does it matter what the a past guy to say the oath meant when he uttered the phrase? Wouldn't it matter more what diety you mean when you repeat the phase?

Throwing in the bit about the Presidents -- it's because they've all been Christian. Should there be a President of another faith or religion, I don't see why they wouldn't take the oath with their hand upon something more appropriate. Again, less to do with what the words meant to someone else and more to do with what they mean to the person speaking the oath.

Pumbaa · May 30, 2007, 11:16:17 PM

Actually, you have people like me because of there belief to "Swear No Oaths".

Many Christians will not swear an oath.

I let my yea's be yea and my nea's be nea..

I affirm...

RiverAux · May 31, 2007, 12:01:14 AM

Can't help but notice that they're using United States Civil Air Patrol in those oaths, an organization that does not exist.

JohnKachenmeister · May 31, 2007, 01:19:44 AM

It says swear (or affirm) so there is a provision for those with religious objections. What is the problem?

Major Lord · May 31, 2007, 01:22:49 AM

I am suspicious of the wording of an Oath that requires allegiance to a set of corporate principals and regulations, rather than to the Constitution of the United States of America, The rule of law, etc. Note that the Oath sentence construction refers to the constitution of the "United States Civil Air Patrol". When I signed up, I signed an agreement to uphold the CAP regs, but swearing an oath before the Creator of the Universe under pain of eternal [darn]ation to obey the rules of CAP? You have to be f**king with me!

I swear by the many arms of Vishnu that I am not a hindu!

Capt Lord

mikeylikey · May 31, 2007, 01:58:34 AM

Umm....NO! I already swore an oath to the United States. That is not the point. The point is.....as a volunteer in CAP the we can quit at any time. Swearing to obey the orders of the Officers appointed over me carries no weight if I can walk away at any moment. Also, what Officers appointed over me? By whom, when, where.....then we get into the side of the argument that Rank is Absolutely meaningless in CAP. I will not take this Oath and if lord God TP no longer wants me in his made up US Civil Air Patrol, I will be happy serving in just the Civil Air Patrol.

NO MORE CHANGES. IF WE WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING, LETS CHANGE THE LEADERSHIP!

Dragoon · May 31, 2007, 02:42:21 PM

Quote from: mikeylikey on May 31, 2007, 01:58:34 AM
Umm....NO! I already swore an oath to the United States. That is not the point. The point is.....as a volunteer in CAP the we can quit at any time. Swearing to obey the orders of the Officers appointed over me carries no weight if I can walk away at any moment. Also, what Officers appointed over me? By whom, when, where.....then we get into the side of the argument that Rank is Absolutely meaningless in CAP. I will not take this Oath and if lord God TP no longer wants me in his made up US Civil Air Patrol, I will be happy serving in just the Civil Air Patrol.

NO MORE CHANGES. IF WE WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING, LETS CHANGE THE LEADERSHIP!

Your first point is interesting, but I think we're okay. Everyone takes an oath when the join the military, but it doesn't apply once you seperate (retirement is a different story - you're still on the books). So using that model, there doesn't seem to be a problem with us swearing to obey. But to make it clearer, they could add something like "as long as I remain a member......"

Yeah, the term "officers appointed over me" is probably the wrong one, because we use the term several different ways in CAP, and officer "rank" is clearly not what they're getting at here. I think, given CAP's structure, a better term would be "the Commanders appointed over me."

I guess I don't have a problem with saying publically - "Yup, I agree to play by your rules as long as I play."

Pretty innocuous stuff, really. After all, I can always quit.

Flying Pig · May 31, 2007, 02:53:18 PM

Some of you guys want so bad to make CAP something it isnt. But good luck with it anyway. Not only with this thread, but the others about requiring college and degrees, Officer Candidate style courses, 24hr notice emergency response teams and Special Operations Units.

Eagle400 · May 31, 2007, 03:04:40 PM

When I was a cadet, I pledged to serve faithfully in the Cadet Program: to attend meetings regularly, participate actively in unit activities, obey my officers, wear my uniform properly, and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation.

Why not have officers adhere to the same oath as cadets? After all, if cadets are required to obey their officers, why shouldn't officers be required to do the same? The same rules apply: if an order is unlawful or immoral, you should not carry it out.

Requiring officers and cadets to adhere to the same oath will make things a lot more simple, and help bridge the gap between cadets and officers. It would hold officers to a higher standard, without requiring anything unreasonable or unattainable.