2 promotion per year, or 2B

[Equinox]

What do we do with senior members who have been 1st Lieutenants for 5 to 10 years and just don't want to jump through all the hoops and promote?  Haven't seen many of them who have been Administratively Discharged.

If you read the OP, you'll see that this thread pertains to cadet promotions, not senior member.

[Grumpy]

What do we do with senior members who have been 1st Lieutenants for 5 to 10 years and just don't want to jump through all the hoops and promote?  Haven't seen many of them who have been Administratively Discharged.

If you read the OP, you'll see that this thread pertains to cadet promotions, not senior member.

Whoa there big fella, just a little Devil's advocate there.  If we're thinking about giving the boot to cadets for not progressing shouldn't we "clean up our own house first".  You know, lead by example.

[PHall]

What do we do with senior members who have been 1st Lieutenants for 5 to 10 years and just don't want to jump through all the hoops and promote?  Haven't seen many of them who have been Administratively Discharged.

If you read the OP, you'll see that this thread pertains to cadet promotions, not senior member.

Whoa there big fella, just a little Devil's advocate there.  If we're thinking about giving the boot to cadets for not progressing shouldn't we "clean up our own house first".  You know, lead by example.

Grump, you forgot to attach the little Devil icon.    You can't play Devil's Advocate if you don't attach the Devil.

Bad cop, no donut for you!

[Grumpy]

What do we do with senior members who have been 1st Lieutenants for 5 to 10 years and just don't want to jump through all the hoops and promote?  Haven't seen many of them who have been Administratively Discharged.

If you read the OP, you'll see that this thread pertains to cadet promotions, not senior member.

Whoa there big fella, just a little Devil's advocate there.  If we're thinking about giving the boot to cadets for not progressing shouldn't we "clean up our own house first".  You know, lead by example.

Grump, you forgot to attach the little Devil icon.    You can't play Devil's Advocate if you don't attach the Devil.

Bad cop, no donut for you!

Thanks Phil, you've got my back.  You know how I so much like my doughnuts.  Former training, you understand.

[Eclipse]

If we're thinking about giving the boot to cadets for not progressing shouldn't we "clean up our own house first".  You know, lead by example.

I would agree, however the initial expectations for cadets are very clearly stated, not to mention they
reaffirm them every time they repeat the oath, so there's no question progression is a requirement and
should be considered the priority.

I've known any number of senior members who are high-level contributors that don't seem interested in progression -
some even progress in PD, just don't care about grade.

I don't know that I have met a cadet yet who eschews progression but would still be considered "successful".

[Private Investigator]

What do we do with senior members who have been 1st Lieutenants for 5 to 10 years and just don't want to jump through all the hoops and promote?  Haven't seen many of them who have been Administratively Discharged.

If you read the OP, you'll see that this thread pertains to cadet promotions, not senior member.

Whoa there big fella, just a little Devil's advocate there.  If we're thinking about giving the boot to cadets for not progressing shouldn't we "clean up our own house first".  You know, lead by example.

John J. Pershing was a Captain with 20 years in the Army when he made the jump to BG. Back in those days a officers career of 20 years was 1LT or CPT. No HYT then either for the enlisted. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

No Grump, get NHQ to put promotions for seniors, then you can expect seniors to promote and lead by example. Not before.

[Flying Pig]

This is always interesting for discussion. I've never heard of this actually being used although I'm sure it has.  If a cadet is creating problems i guess this could be an easy way to dump them.  But let's face it, it really doesn't happen.   

I look at personal examples.  I was a C/2Lt for almost 3yrs before I left and joined the Marines.   My brother was a C/A1C for about 2 1/2-3yrs.  He was perfectly happy just showing up to meetings and being one of the "troops". He was however, heavily involved in NJROTC.  He graduated and joined the Air Force. 

If you have cadets who stagnate absolutely motivate them to promote. But some kids just like the meeting nights, and that's ok too.

[Storm Chaser]

If you have cadets who stagnate absolutely motivate them to promote. But some kids just like the meeting nights, and that's ok too.

Is it? I wouldn't necessarily terminate a cadet's membership just because he or she is promoting slowly. But the expectation of progression is clearly stated in CAPR 52-16, CAPR 35-3, and the Cadet Oath, among others. We need to not only encourage cadets to promote, but they should also be expected to do so (or at least try).

A cadet who doesn't seem interested in progressing in the Cadet Programs may need to reconsider why they joined CAP in the first place. While followership is important, it's not one of the Cadet Programs elements; leadership is. The opportunity to lead is also one of the key traits of cadet life. The promotion and grade system is meant to facilitate that. It's also a way to measure their progress and development in the program.

[foo]

This also bears repeating (H/T Capt Hatkevich - http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19647.msg362161#msg362161):

Saw some interesting things that are GREAT in terms of "what we expect of you and your cadet":


Haven't had a chance to look at it myself yet (only seen bits and pieces).
Some interesting things that cadets need to commit to:

As you apply for membership in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Corps, please tell us you're serious about being a cadet by reading the statements below and checking the checkboxes to indicate that you agree.

   
• I want to be a CAP cadet. I think CAP's for me, and I'm willing to give it a try for one full year. 
• I'll participate in most weekly squadron meetings and will try to attend one 'Saturday' event per month. 
• I plan to attend the next 1-week, overnight summer encampment available in my state. 
• Most encampments are 1-week in duration and take place in the summer or during winter vacation. Tuition averages $200 - $300. Local leaders will tell you more about the encampment opportunities in your area.
• If family or school obligations come up, I'll let my local leaders know in advance that I'll be absent from CAP. 
• I have been assigned a mentor, an experienced cadet who is my #1 source for information on how to succeed in CAP. Or, if I haven't been assigned one, I'm going to ask for one at my next meeting. 
• I understand that what I get out of CAP depends on what I put into it.

As a symbol of my readiness to enter the CAP Cadet Program, I make the following pledge:
THE CADET OATH
I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program,and that I will attend meetings regularly,participate actively in unit activities,obey my officers,wear my uniform properly,and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state and nation.

Parents need to commit to:

Parent's or Guardian's Authorization

   
• I approve my child's membership application for the Civil Air Patrol. 
• I have personally met with the local CAP leaders and received a basic introduction to CAP. I know that CAP policies are available to me through the CAP website, especially the parents' home page, capmembers.com/parents. If I have not yet personally met with the local CAP leaders, I understand that this application will remain on-hold until I do so. 
• I understand my child may be flying in CAP aircraft and participating in vigorous outdoor activities, under the supervision of CAP adult leaders. 
• I understand that by joining CAP, my child is expected to participate in CAP for a minimum of 1 year. He or she will attend weekly meetings at our local squadron and one special 'Saturday' event per month, on average, but of course school and family obligations take priority over CAP. If we can't participate in an activity, we'll try to let the local leaders know in advance. 
• I understand that my child is tentatively scheduled to attend the next cadet encampment, which is typically a 7-day, overnight activity conducted in the summer or during school vacation. I will make an effort to support his or her participation at that program. (Information about the next encampment is posted at capmembers.com/encampment as it becomes available. Your local leaders will also be providing more information.) 
• If CAP provides my child with a uniform, I promise to return that uniform when he or she outgrows it or decides to leave the CAP Program. 

Are you interested and able to volunteer your time and talents to support the cadets or other CAP missions? Check any that apply:

   
•      Helping with transportation
•      Fundraising
•      Supervising cadet events once in a while
•      Taking an active role in leading cadets on a weekly basis
•      Getting involved in the adult-focused emergencey services or aerospace eduation programs
•      Setting up tours or telling you about connections I have that might interest CAP. Please explain briefly: 

BY COMPLETING THIS FORM AND CHECKING THIS CHECKBOX, I HEREBY 'SIGN' THIS APPLICATION 

[Capt Thompson]

^^^This

[Capt Thompson]

As a Cadet, I was very active in JROTC (C/LtCol/Battalion Commander), 2 or 3 teams, and other extracurricular activities. CAP wasn't necessarily the priority as I was in JROTC first, and spent much of my attention there, but I still found time to participate actively, and promote regularly. The only time I didn't promote in a timely manner was when I was waiting to attend encampment as the final requirement for Mitchell.

Again, if a Cadet is trying, this rule doesn't really apply. If they are trying hard, and just don't get it, we need to focus on why they don't get it, and find ways to help them along. If they aren't actively promoting because of JROTC, baseball, football, karate, guitar class, drama club, underwater basket weaving and 15 other activities they're trying to cram in, than a discussion needs to happen, and if it turns out CAP is on the bottom of the priority list, maybe it's time to focus on other things.

[Airplane girl]

Another problem with cadets not promoting is when one cadet joins after another cadet and promotes a lot. The first cadet is still a C/Amn after a year, and the second is a C/SSgt. The first cadet asks why the second now has some sort of authority, since he joined first...

[foo]

Again, if a Cadet is trying, this rule doesn't really apply. If they are trying hard, and just don't get it, we need to focus on why they don't get it, and find ways to help them along. If they aren't actively promoting because of JROTC, baseball, football, karate, guitar class, drama club, underwater basket weaving and 15 other activities they're trying to cram in, than a discussion needs to happen, and if it turns out CAP is on the bottom of the priority list, maybe it's time to focus on other things.

+1

[Flying Pig]

If you have cadets who stagnate absolutely motivate them to promote. But some kids just like the meeting nights, and that's ok too.

Is it?

Yes. It's OK.  If they aren't disrutpting or creating any issues.  Not everyone was born to lead or born to set the example.  I had cadets who came to CAP because they lived in gang infested neighborhoods in Fresno CA and CAP was the one night a week they got to go outside.  Some of you guys are such hard -"a--'s it's comical. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Another problem with cadets not promoting is when one cadet joins after another cadet and promotes a lot. The first cadet is still a C/Amn after a year, and the second is a C/SSgt. The first cadet asks why the second now has some sort of authority, since he joined first...

Why is that a problem? Why should that be a problem???

Should not be a problem. Just point out to the progression rate! If the first one complains, just state You have failed to be promoted! and leave it at that! Or are you afraid of a confrontation? You should not be!

[Airplane girl]

I've tried to explain that to him, sir.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Then continue. Maybe the problem is that he does not accept you in an authority position. Are you the second cadet that has promoted a lot? Are you in another position of authority over the first cadet? Enlist the support of your Cadet Programs Officer or the Deputy Commander for Cadets, and the next time the cadet raises the issue, state I am not discussing this anymore with you and take him to the Cadet Programs Officer. And talk about another thing with him except that issue.

[coudano]

I had cadets who came to CAP because they lived in gang infested neighborhoods in Fresno CA and CAP was the one night a week they got to go outside.

Is that what the cadet program is???

[Майор Хаткевич]

I had cadets who came to CAP because they lived in gang infested neighborhoods in Fresno CA and CAP was the one night a week they got to go outside.

Is that what the cadet program is???

Certainly many units are run as rec. Centers...