Goodbye to an NCO

[MacGruff]

Our squadron bid farewell to one of our longest serving members this past month, and the only Senior Member who was wearing NCO ranks. Our NCO served in the Air Force for over 25 years, rising through the ranks until he earned the Senior Master Sergeant stripes. He then retired from the AF and accepted a job in the private sector. He joined CAP in 2002 and has served with our squadron since then, with one gap in service.

In the squadron he served as the Communications Officer, the Supply Officer, and one of our two Ground Team Leaders. His impact on our cadets was immeasurable and much more than those roles imply. Like all senior NCOs that I've ever known, he seemed irascible with never a smile on his face. He never raised his voice in anger, yet it took only a glance in the direction of any cadet (or senior member for that matter) for the recipient to visibly quell and stop whatever they were doing that created the need for that "look".

Stern and strict, the cadets loved him. He is respected by everyone in the squadron and beyond. When a question on drill etiquette arose, he was the first one consulted. Of course, his invariable answer was to whip out the drill manual and ask the questioner: "What does it say in here about that?" As the Comms officer, he trained everyone towards their ACUT, BCUT, ICUT and MRO. Woe be to the communications cadet who would come in late to activate the radio net on squadron meeting nights. Again, never a raised voice, but the dressing down that would come with tardiness was something to behold – and the cadets NEVER were late again. For anything.

As a SMSGT he never sought higher grade. He could have gone through the officer's ranks in CAP, and probably been at least a Major had he chosen that path, but he always stated how proud he was to have earned the stripes of a Senior Master Sergeant in the U.S. Air Force and therefore wanted to continue wearing those stripes with pride for as long as he could.

When the new NCO program was announced, he was non-committal as to its purpose and whether he liked it or not. When asked, his response was "we'll see". That changed when the new design of the NCO insignia was published. He was livid. The kindest words we heard from him was that he "...would never wear those mickey mouse things!".

When the regulations came out that the new stripes would be required from November 2014 onwards, he stated that his last day of service will be in October 2014. Pointing out that he would not have to change his uniform until November 2015 did not mollify him. He believes that the new design is dis-respectful of all the work he put in to earn his stripes and will not serve in an organization that is so disrespectful of the U.S. Air Force and its insignia.

This past week was his last meeting with our Squadron. We prepared a cake to honor him and his service. In typical fashion, he disappeared about mid-way through the meeting and the staff and cadets ate the cake and cupcakes to salute him and his service without his presence.

Good luck, NCO, on whichever route life takes you next!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Given that the AF approved the stripes...

[capmaj]

As a former AF NCO I couldn't agree with him more! To allow prior-service folks to join CAP, be recognized for their service by being eligible to retain their retired grade.... but then to alter the insignia of that grade for one class of members only ( I've never seen any duscussion about altering the Officers insignia!) is disrespectful of the accomplishments of the NCO !

If you feel that NCO insignia need to be altered.... then why is there not a similar need to alter the Officers insignia!

[LSThiker]

I do not know this guy, so I am going to ask:  Was it really because of the stripes?  What do you mean "In typical fashion, he disappeared about mid-way through the meeting"?

[THRAWN]

As a former AF NCO I couldn't agree with him more! To allow prior-service folks to join CAP, be recognized for their service by being eligible to retain their retired grade.... but then to alter the insignia of that grade for one class of members only ( I've never seen any duscussion about altering the Officers insignia!) is disrespectful of the accomplishments of the NCO !

If you feel that NCO insignia need to be altered.... then why is there not a similar need to alter the Officers insignia!

It is altered. Check the color. And the new stripes are CAP NCO stripes, not USAF.

[SamFranklin]

Sounds like a great contributor and a loss for your unit and CAP overall, but as with any alteration of symbols, sometimes people are a bit too sensitive. I think that's the case here. USAF officers who join CAP are not authorized to wear the exact same insignia that they earned in the service; they don't grab blue epaulets with oak leaves, for example, but are offered grey epaulets that say "CAP" on them. How is it any different for an NCO to wear stripes that are very similar to the AF's, but with a "CAP" distinctive mark on them?  I don't know your member and I'm not trying to poke him personally, but if he's a consummate professional, he's letting that lapse a bit on this issue. I hope he reconsiders and is big enough to admit he over-reacted.

[Eclipse]

Losing experienced members, for any reason, especially with the current trendlines, is unfortunate , but
clearly the ROI he was receiving wasn't even sufficient to surmount this issue, an issue which didn't even affect him
until next year, at the earliest.

He was likely looking for a "worthy" reason to leave and used this.

When you consider the fact that we have more then a few military generals and bird-colonels serving
CAP at lower grade, not to mention any number of members who, for whatever reason, are productive members
but got demoted internal to CAP and still continue as active members, this looks like seriously sour grapes, especially
in that the stripes have no actual relevance to CAP and the mere fact that he could wear them at all was a value-add,
not a requirement.  They will now sit in a closet or in a drawer for no one to see.  How is that "better"?

With that said, this is the kind of thing you can expect when you try and change things piecemeal and
start with the trivial instead of the core.  That's why good teachers make you "show your math" - so you can't just
say things like "NCOs will be the backbone of CAP" as a conclusion without the math that proves the answer.

A full real NCO program might have been compelling enough for him to push through the minor issue of the insignia.

[Shuman 14]

Given that the AF approved the stripes...

Doesn't make them look and less Mickey Mouse...

[capmaj]

As a former AF NCO I couldn't agree with him more! To allow prior-service folks to join CAP, be recognized for their service by being eligible to retain their retired grade.... but then to alter the insignia of that grade for one class of members only ( I've never seen any duscussion about altering the Officers insignia!) is disrespectful of the accomplishments of the NCO !

If you feel that NCO insignia need to be altered.... then why is there not a similar need to alter the Officers insignia!

It is altered. Check the color. And the new stripes are CAP NCO stripes, not USAF.

So officers grades have chaned colors from USAF? Gold bar is no longer 2nd Lt? Silver oak leaf is no longer Lt Col? Just because the backing changes color, CAP officers tabs still mirror USAF's. USAF itself uses different backings on its cloth garde insignia.... but it's still USAF.

CAP NCO grades on the other hand are different in their center symbol, say CAP on them, have a different cut for E5 and below... nothing like USAF's insignia. So it's OK to basically mimic USAF officers insignia in CAP, but NCO's need a radically different insignia? Or are former USAF NCO's not worthy of wearing USAF-like insignia while former officers are?

[Eclipse]

The NCO grade insignia are now commensurate with the officer grades.

Both say "CAP".

Both are different colors.

Both contain the "essence" of the insignia - the NCO stripes and officer insignia themselves - yet both are different enough
to be uniquely "CAP" insignia.

As a reminder, the USAF wears metal insignia on their service dress uniforms, and subdued on their combat and flight uniforms.
CAP officers do not.

If anything this simply aligns CAP NCO insignia with CAP Officer insignia.

The more we talk through this, the less sympathy you'll like find for someone who feels it is more important
to insure everyone know that he was a military NCO than is a CAP NCO.

And FWIW, not all former military NCOs were in the USAF, there are plenty from the other services who have somehow
been able to find the internal strength to wear USAF stripes all these years instead of those from their former service.

[capmaj]

And since this is now descending into a snide remark moment.... it's time to move on.

" And FWIW, not all former military NCOs were in the USAF, there are plenty from the other services who have somehow
been able to find the internal strength to wear USAF stripes all these years instead of those from their former service."

[Storm Chaser]

He believes that the new design is dis-respectful of all the work he put in to earn his stripes and will not serve in an organization that is so disrespectful of the U.S. Air Force and its insignia.

I wonder how many former or current Army and Marine Corps NCOs and Navy and Coast Guard Petty Officers have felt "disrespected" for having to wear the Air Force NCO stripes instead of their hard-earned service stripes. How about O-6 Colonels/Captains who had to give up their hard-earned eagles for silver oak leaves?

As an Air Force Major I don't feel disrespected for having to wear yellow (almost orange) oak leaves on ultramarine blue background or for having to wear gray epaulets with "CAP" embroidered above the grade insignia. Why should it be different for an NCO?

While everyone has the right to leave CAP for any reason, leaving because of a change in grade insignia design, one which was approved by the USAF, is just silly. My only guess is that this SMSgt must have had other reasons for leaving the organization and just chose this one to vocalize his displeasure with CAP.

[Storm Chaser]

Given that the AF approved the stripes...

Doesn't make them look and less Mickey Mouse...

I didn't see the "mouse ears", only propellers and three letters.

[Storm Chaser]

As a former AF NCO I couldn't agree with him more! To allow prior-service folks to join CAP, be recognized for their service by being eligible to retain their retired grade.... but then to alter the insignia of that grade for one class of members only ( I've never seen any duscussion about altering the Officers insignia!) is disrespectful of the accomplishments of the NCO !

If you feel that NCO insignia need to be altered.... then why is there not a similar need to alter the Officers insignia!

It is altered. Check the color. And the new stripes are CAP NCO stripes, not USAF.

So officers grades have chaned colors from USAF? Gold bar is no longer 2nd Lt? Silver oak leaf is no longer Lt Col? Just because the backing changes color, CAP officers tabs still mirror USAF's. USAF itself uses different backings on its cloth garde insignia.... but it's still USAF.

CAP NCO grades on the other hand are different in their center symbol, say CAP on them, have a different cut for E5 and below... nothing like USAF's insignia. So it's OK to basically mimic USAF officers insignia in CAP, but NCO's need a radically different insignia? Or are former USAF NCO's not worthy of wearing USAF-like insignia while former officers are?

Unlike officer grade insignias which are similar across all U.S. military services, NCO insignias differ from service to service. CAP is not the U.S. Air Force, so why not have a more distinctive, albeit similar, NCO grade insignia?

The other issue at hand here is the fact that now CAP NCOs can be promoted within CAP. A CAP CMSgt, for example, may not have been an Air Force CMSgt (or E-9 from another service). That's probably the main reason the grade insignias had to change a bit.

[MSG Mac]

I would have thought the CAP stripes would be distinctive due to pressure from the AF Sergeants.

[Eclipse]

I would have thought the CAP stripes would be distinctive due to pressure from the AF Sergeants.

I doubt many care either way, but the ability to promote internally, separate from any military service, not
to mention the purported future plan to spontaneously generate them internally by CAP are both issues
that likely were more important.

I mean FSM forbid if some SMSgt accidentally called a CAP Chief "Chief" in a low-light condition, only
to find later that he was not in the military.

I shudder at the implications.

[PHall]

I would have thought the CAP stripes would be distinctive due to pressure from the AF Sergeants.

Never been any pressure that I've aware of.  And the Chief's Mafia would have no problems since the ones wearing CMSgt stripes would be one of their members.

Just another solution looking for a problem.

[Storm Chaser]

How many total NCOs does CAP currently have? I bet any impact from the new NCO insignias is quite negligible in the big scheme of things.

[Storm Chaser]

Duplicate

[Eclipse]

How many total NCOs does CAP currently have? I bet any impact from the new NCO insignias is quite negligible in the big scheme of things.

+1 - if the number doubled, it would still be less then 200, and I'd hazard it's less then 150.

While there have been some that abandoned their CAP Officer grade in favor of stripes,
I know of a few personally who went the other way and moved from stripes into the
officer progression.