Saluting and non-saluting

[lordmonar]

If a cadet doesn't salute me on the sidewalk on the way into the building, i'm more likely to bring it up to the cadet commander // cadet senior nco, and expect them to resolve the issue.

This is where on the spot correction is probably better....with a follow up to the cadet commander if necessary. IMHO.

[Storm Chaser]

That's exactly what I would do. In fact, I would probably only approach the cadet commander if I saw a pattern or thought there was systemic problem that required his or her attention. On spot corrections tend to work best.

[Mitchell 1969]

That's exactly what I would do. In fact, I would probably only approach the cadet commander if I saw a pattern or thought there was systemic problem that required his or her attention. On spot corrections tend to work best.

I can't think of a reason NOT to do this on the spot. Most cadets don't plan to be rude and they expect to be taught in the course of simply being cadets.

In fact, not correcting it is doing the cadet a disservice. Looking back to my own C/CC and CC days, I'd think it odd if a SM deferred correction in favor of after the fact referral.

[PHall]

It is possible to make a "on the spot" correction without being a jerk.
Just need to have the mindset that you're teaching them not punishing them.
Raised voices and harsh words are NOT required.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As far as CAP SMs saluting RealMilitary, the reason..................as I see it, is out of respect for their uniform. We claim to have the priviliage of wearing a [modified] AF uniform, and thus when we are in that uniform, we are expected to honor it by recognizing other persons also wearing that uniform. As I see it, saluting is done out of respect for the uniform, not so much for the person wearing that uniform.

I learnt long ago that you salute the rank, not necessarily the person wearing it.

However, significant numbers of CAP members do not have the privilege of wearing the modified AF uniform.

[KCPilot17]

However, we are required to salute military officers senior in grade to us. 

Wrong. We are required to salute ALL military officers regardless of our rank. Ex: A CAP Major General has to salute a Air Force 2nd Lt. I know this seems weird, but it is how it is.

[lordmonar]

It is possible to make a "on the spot" correction without being a jerk.
Just need to have the mindset that you're teaching them not punishing them.
Raised voices and harsh words are NOT required.

+1
"Hey Airman, did you not see me?"
"Hey Lt, you need to be setting the example"
"Hey Sgt, what would your airmen thing?"

[coudano]

I'll caveat a little for you...

If it's a phase 1 cadet, i'm mentioning it to the cadet staff.
Training, Enforcement, Remediation for phase 1 cadets for things like this is their job.  Not mine.

If it's a one-time thing, then it's not a big deal.
If it's a data point in a larger pattern, then i'm entering that data point into their system for consideration.
(not for them to go out and schwack C/Amn Snuffy specifically, 20 minutes after the fact)

Sure, I can do an on the spot correction.  I could do several, over the course of a single CAP meeting...   But then again, as a cadet programs administrator, having a corrected phase 1 cadet isn't my primary goal.  Having NCO's who correctly instruct, exemplify, and enforce to their trainees is.  We are (supposedly) focused on teaching (upper phase) cadets how to lead, not how to follow a set of rules strictly.  I'm more interested in helping my cadets in leadership lab recognize an issue, evaluate whether it's a big deal or not, develop a course of action if necessary, implement it, and evaluate its results.  Than I am in making sure C/Amn snuffy knows to salute the Lt Col in the parking lot, and does it.


If it's a cadet in phase 2, 3, or 4, i'm more likely to look right at them and say something like   "Really???"
Then again if they haven't for the most part mastered such simple things as properly employing customs and courtesies, they probably haven't been promoted to C/SSgt (not in my squadron, anyway)

[PHall]

I'll caveat a little for you...

If it's a phase 1 cadet, i'm mentioning it to the cadet staff.
Training, Enforcement, Remediation for phase 1 cadets for things like this is their job.  Not mine.

If it's a one-time thing, then it's not a big deal.
If it's a data point in a larger pattern, then i'm entering that data point into their system for consideration.
(not for them to go out and schwack C/Amn Snuffy specifically, 20 minutes after the fact)

Sure, I can do an on the spot correction.  I could do several, over the course of a single CAP meeting...   But then again, as a cadet programs administrator, having a corrected phase 1 cadet isn't my primary goal.  Having NCO's who correctly instruct, exemplify, and enforce to their trainees is.  We are (supposedly) focused on teaching (upper phase) cadets how to lead, not how to follow a set of rules strictly.  I'm more interested in helping my cadets in leadership lab recognize an issue, evaluate whether it's a big deal or not, develop a course of action if necessary, implement it, and evaluate its results.  Than I am in making sure C/Amn snuffy knows to salute the Lt Col in the parking lot, and does it.


If it's a cadet in phase 2, 3, or 4, i'm more likely to look right at them and say something like   "Really???"
Then again if they haven't for the most part mastered such simple things as properly employing customs and courtesies, they probably haven't been promoted to C/SSgt (not in my squadron, anyway)

I would make the correction to a Phase I cadet, no problem.
I would also find out if they had been taught saluting yet. If they hadn't then I will give them the "1 Minute Manager" version of the class and let them go.
Then I would be looking for their Flight Staff so I could ask some rather pointed questions.

[SarDragon]

However, we are required to salute military officers senior in grade to us. 

Wrong. We are required to salute ALL military officers regardless of our rank. Ex: A CAP Major General has to salute a Air Force 2nd Lt. I know this seems weird, but it is how it is.

That's NOT how it is, nor has it ever been, since I joined CAP many moons ago. [Emphasis mine]

As a general rule, salutes are rendered as a courtesy between those officers junior (lower) in grade to those officers senior (higher) in grade. For instance, a lieutenant would salute a captain, a captain would salute a major, or a brigadier general would salute a major general. The junior officer initiates the salute as soon as the senior officer is recognized.

b. Saluting. It is a courtesy exchanged between members of the Civil Air Patrol when in military-style uniform as both a greeting and a symbol of mutual respect. As such, it is never inappropriate to salute another individual. The basic rules regarding saluting for CAP members are:
(1) You salute when in military-style uniform.
(2) You salute the President of the United States, all Medal of Honor recipients, and commissioned officers and warrant officers of the Armed Forces who are senior in rank to you.

[Eclipse]

However, we are required to salute military officers senior in grade to us. 

Wrong. We are required to salute ALL military officers regardless of our rank. Ex: A CAP Major General has to salute a Air Force 2nd Lt. I know this seems weird, but it is how it is.

That's NOT how it is, nor has it ever been, since I joined CAP many moons ago. [Emphasis mine]

Seriously, where does this nonsense come from?

Hint: The goobers who decide to "discuss the situation" with some poor airmen or butter bar who made the mistake of saluting them.

Salute.

And.

Move.

On.

[Devil Doc]

I am a bad example at this: real bad 

I get saluted indoors? Im not used to it because we didnt do it much. Im not use to being the one slauted, instead im used to the one either running away from officers, waiting untill they pass, or freaking out making sure I do not do it wrong.


Also, I usually tell cadets to not salute me, unless the DCC or CC or Guest is around, im only 8-10 years older than them, lol.

[MHC5096]

Wrong. We are required to salute ALL military officers regardless of our rank. Ex: A CAP Major General has to salute a Air Force 2nd Lt. I know this seems weird, but it is how it is.

Funny, we had someone in the CGAUX saying the same thing last year. Of course this was the same goober who was telling new members they had to salute enlisted personnel as well. When I questioned him about where he got this information from he told me that he couldn't remember where he heard it from, but, he personally thought that we should be doing it that way. The sad part is that he was fairly high up in the organization. I had to slip into "SNCO mode" and properly educate him. He no longer spreads this fallacy around.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Funny, we had someone in the CGAUX saying the same thing last year.

I believe in the CGAUX it is true - the lowest-ranking member of the military outranks any member of the CGAUX.

I never heard anything about saluting enlisted personnel, but definitely all commissioned and warrant officers.

CAP has grades, even though they only really matter in CAP.  The CGAUX does not.

[Ned]

I am a bad example at this: real bad 

[. . .]
Also, I usually tell cadets to not salute me, unless the DCC or CC or Guest is around, im only 8-10 years older than them, lol.

Brandon,

Please don't do that.  It is hard enough to run a challenging cadet program without seniors actively undermining the training we are giving because they are trying to be "the cool senior member."

I know your heart is in the right place, and I genuinely appreciate your efforts and contributions.

But these particular rules are there for a reason, and it would be helpful if you would help the cadets follow them.

Ned Lee
CP Enthusiast

[DoubleSecret]

Seriously, where does this nonsense come from?

Hint: The goobers who decide to "discuss the situation" with some poor airmen or butter bar who made the mistake of saluting them.

Salute.

And.

Move.

On.

One would hope.  Sadly, I once had a commander who ordered us to clarify our status if saluted.  There was some misplaced concern that we were "impersonating officers" if we merely returned the salute and moved on.  She was a piece of work.

[Eclipse]

One would hope.  Sadly, I once had a commander who ordered us to clarify our status if saluted.  There was some misplaced concern that we were "impersonating officers" if we merely returned the salute and moved on.  She was a piece of work.

Wow.

[Storm Chaser]

However, we are required to salute military officers senior in grade to us. 

Wrong. We are required to salute ALL military officers regardless of our rank. Ex: A CAP Major General has to salute a Air Force 2nd Lt. I know this seems weird, but it is how it is.

Cite, please.

[Storm Chaser]

As far as CAP SMs saluting RealMilitary, the reason..................as I see it, is out of respect for their uniform. We claim to have the priviliage of wearing a [modified] AF uniform, and thus when we are in that uniform, we are expected to honor it by recognizing other persons also wearing that uniform. As I see it, saluting is done out of respect for the uniform, not so much for the person wearing that uniform.

I learnt long ago that you salute the rank, not necessarily the person wearing it.

However, significant numbers of CAP members do not have the privilege of wearing the modified AF uniform.

You should read CAPP 151.

When in uniform, salute officers upon recognition, regardless of what the officer is wearing. For example, uniformed cadets salute their squadron commander even if that commander is in civilian attire. In such instances, the commander typically would verbally acknowledge the salute, but not return it.

[Garibaldi]

However, we are required to salute military officers senior in grade to us. 

Wrong. We are required to salute ALL military officers regardless of our rank. Ex: A CAP Major General has to salute a Air Force 2nd Lt. I know this seems weird, but it is how it is.

Cite, please.

Urban legend IMO