National Diversity Officer - Volunteer Wanted.

[biomed441]

FWIW, and I'm not trying to necessarily challenge the need for a diversity officer position at NHQ or not.  I don't have all the facts, but I have my own personal observations.  I've been with 2 wings, and visited a few others, and the "diversity problem" really doesn't seem like a "problem" at all, but more a "diversity preference".  Here in OKC, my squadron has NO issue with diversity.  We have someone from what seems like every walk of life, nationality, and a fairly strong female presence both on the cadet and senior side. Latino, African-american, native-american, Indian, Israeli, Pacific-island, Asian, and of course the majority are white, but that isn't due to lack of interest in those of different nationalities, but the fact that well, its Oklahoma.  The state as a whole just doesn't have a hugely diverse population.  My squadrons demographic actually reflects the states demographic. I noticed this same trend when I was in CAWG. The squadron reflected the local area's demographic.

Is this true for every squadron and every wing? No probably not, but its again just my observation.  I've made no changes to the squadrons recruiting program, and really don't see a need to specifically reach out to a particular audience based on race.  I do see a need to reach out in general to the entire community and educate people on what CAP is, and what we do, and how everyone can serve the community through this awesome organization.  So, again this is all opinion based, and perhaps CAP may benefit from a diversity officer, it may not, though I'd have to ask what would it mean if diversity becomes a priority.  It was brought up before, and I have to agree that with this, we will see "quotas" popping out, be it hard or soft.  What is the overall goal of diversity?  Is it just to have more of it, or will we actually start seeing numbers, and eventually regulated numbers... and what happens when you don't meet those numbers?  We still have to remember this is a volunteer organization.  People will join if they want to, for their own reasons, and will leave for their own reasons as well. 

If there is a legitimate "problem" in relationship to diversity, and it is negatively impacting CAP, and our ability to perform our missions, then by all means lets find a solution and see what happens, but as I said, I don't really see it so much of a problem as it is a preference by some who feel we need to be a more diverse organization.  I don't disagree and am all for diversity, but we really need to ask what kind of resources and time should we really be putting into this.

[RADIOMAN015]

Hmm may I suggest the group visit the Air Force website on "diversity" to see how the USAF defines it, it is not just based upon race/gender

See:  http://www.af.mil/diversity.asp

Also a differing opinion of AF "diversity" definition:
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/08/airforce-new-regs-defining-diversity-080611w/

Do you think CAP will adopt this same definition of "diversity" and if we do, have we really achieved a lot of "diversity" already

What I find interesting is that the staff work prior to the the BOG/NEC even allowed this $1,000,000, i say again one million, I say again $1,000,000 request to even go forward.  Tell me when the last time in CAP you've seen $1,000,000 request submitted to improve the current cadet or aerospace education programs with additional initiatives  (surely on the aerospace education end I can think of at least three initiatives for OUR members)

Review the initial webpage on www.gocivilairpatrol.com  - Here's my concern:  Does that picture of the three young 'minority' class members represent the entire membership "diversity" in CAP    Surely we should include that picture but wouldn't it be proper to have the pictures constantly changing when on that home page to reflect, our older (or should I say real old) members Our physically challenged members and just some typical white male & female members (representing the average age in CAP)

My guess on this -- look for mandatory "diversity" training at your local squadron in the future.  Also I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of report from the squadron level up channeled called "Diversity Outreach Activities".   Furthermore, don't be surprised if you see some sort of informal quota system being employed for certain CAP leadership positions that are under represented by certain diversity classes.  In other words if you are a white male with the same record up against one of these "selected under represented" diversity class members, they will get selected every time until those in power determine that the proper diversity mix has been achieved. (which I think also happens in many government agencies (local, state, federal)  already, and to a lesser extent in private corporations).
RM       

[lordmonar]

If women are under represented in out cadet membership....there is an area where we can improve.

Why? Is one kind of person more valuable than another? Why not put our money into better recruiting in general and not tailor it to a specific type?

What's wrong with helping girls?

If we are offering our product to everyone....and we want them to take it (in the case of CP).....why is it a bad thing to wonder why we don't reach more girls?

It is not that we are looking for girls....instead of boys....we want them both.

As for putting our money into recruiting.....a) what money?  B) is that not what we do now.  We do some low budget, ad hoc recruiting, with no market analysis....and we are not drawing in a representitive population.

Now...I am not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing.......it just may be that girls, just are not into the CAP thing.....and we may find that the changes necessary to make them like CAP would just change us too much.....so we accept the fact that girls will always be under represented.

-----and I think that is where you and I differ.  I don't see a NDO in and of itself a bad thing....someone looking into this issue.  No one has proposed any policy changes, no one has suggest any sort of actions that need to be taken.  It is way too soon. 

Now if the NDO goes off the deep end and starts mandating quotas or demanding that all CP officers have to bi-lingual or any other of that stupid BS.....well then that's a differnt story....I'll be in the mod with my torch and pitch fork ready to storm the castle. 

All I am saying is let's give it a chance before we automatically start nay-saying it because some organisations don't have the moral fortitude to maintain standards.

I think it is a good thing we have someone look into this....because I know for a fact that there are large and small pockets of discrimination...intentional and accidental out there.  And that needs to be fixed.

[Eclipse]

What's wrong with helping girls?

Who says they need (or want) help?

[Extremepredjudice]

What's wrong with helping girls?

Who says they need (or want) help?

How are they disadvantaged? They get free blues. Bdus are the same.

I bet you JROTC units have about the same diversity. Some people don't like the "military".
Before someone grumps:  Our uniforms make us look like military.

The real question is: Do we want some of these kids? Inner city isn't a good place to go, (we all agree on that, if I'm not mistaken) so why do we want those kids in CAP?

[Ned]

The real question is: Do we want some of these kids? Inner city isn't a good place to go, (we all agree on that, if I'm not mistaken) so why do we want those kids in CAP?

(Emphasis added.)

No, we do not agree.

Why would we not want urban cadets?  What kind of young men and women would not benefit from leadership training, aerospace education, character education, and physical fitness?

The military recruits from the city as well as sub-urban and rural areas.  What do we know that they do not?

Is "inner city youth" a secret code for something I should know?

[Major Lord]

Its incredibly ironic to me that liberals don't see how condescending  the viewpoint is that women or girls, or racial or sexual minorities may require the help of us highly competent white males. So let me ask? Will they pay attention to race,color, creed or sex, when they hire this new "Political Officer"? You bet they will. This is a post designed to be visible, not functional, but it can cause huge damage just the same. This group foisted Pineda on us, even though he was the least qualified and most corrupt ( well, at least in the top three) NATCOM's we ever enjoyed. But at least CAP could play the race card to show just how darn fair we were! Many a'good CAP member fell by the road under his auspices, and many have never received justice for the treatment carried out at his hands, under the often less than watchful eyes of National Staff.

Major Lord

[NCRblues]

Is "inner city youth" a secret code for something I should know?

Yup. Gang's are more prevalent. Drugs are more prevalent. Murder rates are higher. Cases of rape and "knock out game" are higher in "inner city youth".

I went TDY to Scott AFB one time, and the local police asked military members (specifically AF members, because of the blue uniforms) to not wear their uniform when attending functions in st. Louis. Why you ask? Well, a couple gangs in the "inner city" was shooting at anything that looked like a police officer. Shocking, I know. 

Sorry, but that is not the type of cadets I want to actively recruit. Now im sure I will get jumped and someone will say "not all of them are bad" or " those are the cadets that need CAP the most". But, lets be honest, CAP is not a reform program. Kids in inner cities by our join age of 12 are already into drugs/gangs and other things.

[lordmonar]

What's wrong with helping girls?

Who says they need (or want) help?

Read the WHOLE farting post!  If they don't want or need CAP....then fine....but who knows one way or the other....because we have never had an NDO to look into the matter!  Which is the point of my post!

[RogueLeader]

For once, I actually agreed with RM.  I also am a firm believer that "inner city" is not the best target for recruiting. That's not to say they are all drug dealers and gang members, it just doesn't have good returns on investment resources. We ought to let them know that we are there, but let them come to us.

[RiverAux]

Some interesting information on demographics of the JROTC program can be found in this report: https://www.usarmyjrotc.com/jrotcRes/downloads/8_Library/DTICReports/walls.pdf

I wonder how CAP school-based unit demographics match up against JROTC (which seems to be pretty well integrated in terms of both gender and race)? 

[Eclipse]

What's wrong with helping girls?

Who says they need (or want) help?

Read the WHOLE farting post!  If they don't want or need CAP....then fine....but who knows one way or the other....because we have never had an NDO to look into the matter!  Which is the point of my post!

The first sentence was enough.

The idea that any "group" needs "help", when that "help" is decided and suggested from outside the "group" is an elitist mentality that challenges the very idea it is proposing to fix. 

There's been a chaired committee for about a year at the national level.  What have they come up with?

Are we appointing an NDO because we don't know if we need an NDO?  So we'll appoint one and see if we need one?

[FW]

Its incredibly ironic to me that liberals don't see how condescending  the viewpoint is that women or girls, or racial or sexual minorities may require the help of us highly competent white males. So let me ask? Will they pay attention to race,color, creed or sex, when they hire this new "Political Officer"? You bet they will. This is a post designed to be visible, not functional, but it can cause huge damage just the same. This group foisted Pineda on us, even though he was the least qualified and most corrupt ( well, at least in the top three) NATCOM's we ever enjoyed. But at least CAP could play the race card to show just how darn fair we were! Many a'good CAP member fell by the road under his auspices, and many have never received justice for the treatment carried out at his hands, under the often less than watchful eyes of National Staff.

Major Lord

Are you serious?  Do you have any idea what your rant sounds like when read out loud?  Do you really think Gen Carr is condescending? Gen Courter?  They voiced the need.  They voiced the policy.  The NB agreed with them.  So did the BoG.

In the political realm, the object is power, money and control.  In CAP, we need members to do the work and serve our communities.  There is no "power" except to put up with the day to day BS a commander deals with regularly. There is no money; we volunteer. Control; yeah sure.... 

Pineda became the National Commander after Gen Wheless resigned.  He was the elected vice commander by acclamation when losing to Gen Wheless by just a couple of votes. No one was "foisted on us". And, to suggest his failings were due to some ethnic or cultural norm is insulting and, just gives credence to having a NDO.

IMHO, the real damage to CAP is caused by members who fail to take our core values seriously. I  have no problem discussing ways to expand our outreach; even in the inner city.  How national staffers spend their time is, well, up to the commander.  And, this is what Gen Carr wants.  No one has to like it and, no one is forced to pay membership dues.   

[Extremepredjudice]

Its incredibly ironic to me that liberals don't see how condescending  the viewpoint is that women or girls, or racial or sexual minorities may require the help of us highly competent white males. So let me ask? Will they pay attention to race,color, creed or sex, when they hire this new "Political Officer"? You bet they will. This is a post designed to be visible, not functional, but it can cause huge damage just the same. This group foisted Pineda on us, even though he was the least qualified and most corrupt ( well, at least in the top three) NATCOM's we ever enjoyed. But at least CAP could play the race card to show just how darn fair we were! Many a'good CAP member fell by the road under his auspices, and many have never received justice for the treatment carried out at his hands, under the often less than watchful eyes of National Staff.

Major Lord

Are you serious?  Do you have any idea what your rant sounds like when read out loud?  Do you really think Gen Carr is condescending? Gen Courter?  They voiced the need.  They voiced the policy.  The NB agreed with them.  So did the BoG.

In the political realm, the object is power, money and control.  In CAP, we need members to do the work and serve our communities.  There is no "power" except to put up with the day to day BS a commander deals with regularly. There is no money; we volunteer. Control; yeah sure.... 

Pineda became the National Commander after Gen Wheless resigned.  He was the elected vice commander by acclamation when losing to Gen Wheless by just a couple of votes. No one was "foisted on us". And, to suggest his failings were due to some ethnic or cultural norm is insulting and, just gives credence to having a NDO.

IMHO, the real damage to CAP is caused by members who fail to take our core values seriously. I  have no problem discussing ways to expand our outreach; even in the inner city.  How national staffers spend their time is, well, up to the commander.  And, this is what Gen Carr wants.  No one has to like it and, no one is forced to pay membership dues.

Sir, you think inner city kids are the correct fit for CAP?

Kids that are probably in a gang, associated with drugs (whether they be pushers or users [I got offered coke by a 11 yr old, so don't think 12 yr olds aren't pushing]), rape, prostitution, murder, need I go on?

If those are the kind of kids you are okay with than I am scared. Membership is a privilege. Personally I don't think CAP would benefit from those types of kids.

Like it has been said, we are not a community outreach program.

[NCRblues]

I agree with FW that the most damage to CAP is done by members who forget the core values....

That being said, here is why I think some of us on captalk are worried about an NDO.

#1. An officer appointed to look into "problems" that no one see's.
#2. Lack of explanation about scope and chain of command.
#3. Bad experiences with "diversity" initiative in our normal day to day life's.
#4. Lack of explanation of WHY this is needed.
#5. Funds, how much this "diversity" initiative will get

I think that sums it up....anyone else?

[a2capt]

IMHO, the real damage to CAP is caused by members who fail to take our core values seriously

The irony ...

[AirDX]

Can anyone point out a single problem at all?

Sure.  Walk in to your average squadron as a newcomer.  You are greeted (or more likely ignored) by a bunch of 55+ year old white males.  If you are female, and/or younger than 30, it's not a welcoming environment.

And I have nothing against 55+ y.o. white males.  As of last November, I am one.

This image is a problem.  It's a tough one, because it's precisely those older guys that have the money and the time to play CAP.  That's the case in almost any volunteer organization.  However, if there's something we can do to get younger blood in and retain it, and perhaps be more representative of the demographics of the country, let's look at it.  THat will only make us a stronger organization, more connected to our communities.

[AirDX]

Kids that are probably in a gang, associated with drugs (whether they be pushers or users [I got offered coke by a 11 yr old, so don't think 12 yr olds aren't pushing]), rape, prostitution, murder, need I go on?

No, you need not go on, because it's just that type of prejudicial thinking that needs to go out the door.

Every child that lives in a city is not what you describe.  In fact, the vast majority are just trying to make their way in life just like you and I.  I spent a couple of years volunteering with some folks teaching science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) enrichment after school down in the inner city, in what's one of the bottom feeder high schools out here.

I met a bunch of wonderful kids.  A lot of second generation immigrants who wanted to make the most of what their parents were sacrificing for them.  No gangs, no drugs, and they stayed as far from them as they could.  And they graduated with GPAs high enough to get scholarships to places like UMass, Harvey Mudd, Creighton, the Illinois Institute of Technology.... good schools.

Don't paint with a broad brush like that, it just shows you don't have a clue.

[AirDX]

That being said, here is why I think some of us on captalk are worried about an NDO.

#1. An officer appointed to look into "problems" that no one see's.
#2. Lack of explanation about scope and chain of command.
#3. Bad experiences with "diversity" initiative in our normal day to day life's.
#4. Lack of explanation of WHY this is needed.
#5. Funds, how much this "diversity" initiative will get

I think that sums it up....anyone else?

#1. Apparently our governing bodies and chain of command see a problem.  That's good enough, even if you personally don't see it.
#2. It's spelled out pretty clearly in the job description - a staff officer reporting to the national commander. 
#3. Hasn't bothered me.  I read stories in the paper, but other mismanaged programs doesn't mean this one has to be.
#4. See #1.
#5. The only item I see in the job responsibilities that will cost money is the "Participate in Aerospace/STEM related conferences" item, and the travel budget has been squashed already, so much for that.  I'm sure there will be some expenses for that eventually though.

This is coming, you all can howl and push your heads in the sand, or you can watch and try to get your input heard, and control the situation.  I choose the latter.

[SarDragon]

Sir, you think inner city kids are the correct fit for CAP?

Kids that are probably in a gang, associated with drugs (whether they be pushers or users [I got offered coke by a 11 yr old, so don't think 12 yr olds aren't pushing]), rape, prostitution, murder, need I go on?

If those are the kind of kids you are okay with than I am scared. Membership is a privilege. Personally I don't think CAP would benefit from those types of kids.

Like it has been said, we are not a community outreach program.

That's a pretty wide brush you are using to tar a whole group of people. While the inner city environment can be harsh and unfriendly, all of the people who live there aren't. There's a percentage getting all the publicity that makes the whole group look bad. I'd guess that there success stories out there of inner city cadets becoming successful in CAP, and after, in spite of their beginnings.