National Diversity Officer - Volunteer Wanted.

[EMT-83]

What do quotas have to do with diversity?

Ned, if you insist on coming here and pointing out that the NB isn’t comprised of a bunch of fools, someone will have to talk Mike about your CT status.

I don't think Ned said anything about quotas.  Your comment was uncalled for.

Should have used quote tags. No, Ned didn't say anything about quotas.

I do get the feeling that there are members of this board that would prefer Ned didn't spoil their conspiracy theories with the truth.

I apologize if anyone thought I was taking a shot at Ned: my intentions were just the opposite.

[rustyjeeper]

Money is by far the biggest obstacle for diversity. There is nothing else that I can see keeping anyone out. In my own unit we help out a few cadets who need assistance from time to time. I myself have on more than one occasion funded meals or gear when the need arises. You have to do what you have to do to ensure a cadet can participate and is not left out when others buy mickey D's or grab snacks at a pit stop...or a piece of gear cant be bought that is needed...
That said after paying my own way and funding my own child (who is a COSTLY cadet)... we dont need more "diversity"/ if it brings more disadvataged people without funding to CAP. I am already broke now!
I dont mean to seem cold or callous but everything has a cost and if we already have cadets needing a helping hand within the organization (WE DO!) why do we want to troll for more to help out? Units have a hard enough time with the status quo without becoming more "diverse" whic in my book equates to more people who cant afford to participate.
We do not discriminate or turn anyone down now; even those needing a helping hand but why in our right mind would we actively SOLICIT that???
cmon be reasonable and think about it

[Ned]

I can only agree that cost is a huge factor, and indeed may be the largest single factor.  And if that is the case, there may not be much that can be done in that regard.

My WAG, however, is that - even after adjusting for economic status - our demographics are still skewed.  I don't have any sort of figures to back that up, however.  Just my personal observations after looking around several dozen NB meetings, and probably a hundred or so encampments and NCSAs.

Thus I am not sure that cost is the only significant factor that limits full participation.  And that is sort of the point of a Diversity Committee/Officer.  To do the necessary homework to ensure that we have removed any inadvertant barriers to full participation.

Remember, at this point we have a volunteer Diversity Committee studying the issue and are seeking a volunteer Diversity Officer.  There is no significant cost to studying the issue.  No big budgets, no paid staffers, no paid consultants.  We want "to be reasonable and think about it" a little.

Just volunteers like you and me, trying to improve our program.

That is almost certainly a Good Thing.

Ned Lee

[rustyjeeper]

I have no problem with bringing more cadets into the fold beleive me. Just dont want to see a "quota" for those with family incomes below "xxxx" as it is I think some cadets are misled by the program in a way about cost from day one which is a shame. National would be doing a bigger service providing ABU's OOPS  BDU's than a blues uniform. The BDU is where the action takes place that cadets love to participate in and we dont provide that yet in most units 50% or more of the time and activities are spent in that not blues...
If we want to increase membership/ diversity then a national outreach to schools especially middle schools needs to be ramped up in a BIG way yes there is a program but in reality it is not happening and it should!
Thanks for what you do Ned and as I said I am not opposed to exploring more opportunities but we need to make better utilization of what we have now and those diversity numbers would improve.

[FW]

I can only agree that cost is a huge factor, and indeed may be the largest single factor.  And if that is the case, there may not be much that can be done in that regard.

My WAG, however, is that - even after adjusting for economic status - our demographics are still skewed.  I don't have any sort of figures to back that up, however.  Just my personal observations after looking around several dozen NB meetings, and probably a hundred or so encampments and NCSAs.

Thus I am not sure that cost is the only significant factor that limits full participation.  And that is sort of the point of a Diversity Committee/Officer.  To do the necessary homework to ensure that we have removed any inadvertant barriers to full participation.

Remember, at this point we have a volunteer Diversity Committee studying the issue and are seeking a volunteer Diversity Officer.  There is no significant cost to studying the issue.  No big budgets, no paid staffers, no paid consultants.  We want "to be reasonable and think about it" a little.

Just volunteers like you and me, trying to improve our program.

That is almost certainly a Good Thing.

Ned Lee

One would think so...

Finding alternative significant funding streams is the way to address costs to the members.  A strong CAP Foundation could play a major role in this.  There are ways to overcome cost issues; we just haven't been able to be successful in adressing them...yet.

I agree with Ned.  There is nothing wrong with a group of volunteers studying the issue in an orderly way.  I certainly prefer this to doing nothing.  After all, membership numbers have been about the same for the last 30 years or so.  It's time to figure out how we can enlarge our net; to catch more kinds of victims members.

[rustyjeeper]

Agreed, there is certainly nothing wrong with "widening the "net" to grow our member numbers. And if that is the purpose I certainly would not mind seeing that happen or even becoming involved myself more so than I am now.
We need to do a better job of promoting ourselves and find ways to gain positive attention. CAP in my area has very little media coverage and virtually no prescence in schools or various recreation departments throughout the local communities. I have spoken to several recreation directors about cadet progams and they had never heard of cap. The single sheet recruiting flier is not exactly the best we could do to promote our programs is it? Why not tailer a pamphmet to those who run schools and recreational programs for youth if we are serious about increasing our membership? Make it a downloadable format so members such as myself can input local contact information and print off a few to pass around if we want to become known? Ordering bundles of National Preprinted items is nice for an airshow- but to be able to target area specific things like principals, school committees, town managers, etc a template with graphics that could be customized as well as a cohesive branding effort would make sense.
WIWAC 25 years ago member numbers were the same and the same problems existed- not much has changed except I have gotten  A LOT older

And for those of you who say PAO's are not doing their job---- I say that is NOT the case! PAO's make effort and do contact the media but unless it is one of the BIG THREE/ dirty laundry, politics, or in the national eye there just is not a lot of interest in stories like what CAP does or can offer. The media does not exactly like to give away free publicity- they would rather have people pay to promote an organization unless you meet the aforementioned big three criteria IMHO

[Woodsy]

Just curious here if our "diversity ratio" is much different than other pay-to-play youth organizations, such as Boy/Girl Scouts, or adult clubs, such as a flying club, red cross, other SAR groups, etc?

Personally, my squadron is extremely diverse, with many different races from Asian to Indian, Hispanic to Arabic.  I'd even go so far as to say the ratio of minorities in our squadron is much, much higher than in the local community at large.  I'm also aware of several different faiths, and heaven knows when the SM's start talking politics, it gets heated.  In other words, there is no problem with diversity here, and we've done absolutely nothing to make it that way.  Someone shows up and wants to participate, give them an application, end of story.

That said, will I do a recruiting event at some of the inner city high schools in the area?  No.  Why?  Same reason I wont work an ELT mission in those areas.  I'd prefer not to get shot, and fact of the matter is that some of those areas would just be flat dangerous for me to drive down the street.

[lordmonar]

CAP's program has been pretty consistent for 70 years and at least for the last several decades has been fully open to anyone interested in joining.  If our program doesn't appeal to certain groups it is unlikely that a few minor tweeks in the recruiting process or overall program are going to make any significant difference because the basic program remains the same.

And that is the reason why we need a Diversity Officer.

It is open to everyone.  We are represented just about everywhere.....and yet our members don't represent our communities.

So....a National Diversity Officer (I would assume) lead a team of professionals that go out into the field and find out what about our program is NOT attracting a more representitive membership.  They would have to do a lot of traveling (hence the big travel budget request) because each area is different and the solution for Huston, TX won't work in Tampa, FL or in Los Angeles, CA.

If a few minor tweeks to the recruiting program don't work.....maybe we need to do a MAJOR tweek to it.

The National Diversity Officer (again I would assume) would also work with other National Program Officers and make suggestions to how they can change their programs to appeal to a more diverse audiance.

[Major Lord]

If the goal of "diversity" was merely to ensure the establishment of a color/creed-blind organization, it would be a fine thing. Anyone who has had the slightest contact with the implementation of "diversity" programs knows that these have generally the exact opposite effect. Diversity programs seem to turn into politically-correct political reeducation programs, with the goal of providing redress for real and imaginary slights against any group screaming loud enough. We have a broad spectrum of racist laws in America designed to promote one group ahead of another, and we can see how it creeps into the culture elsewhere. One example is how a crime against a protected minority is worse than a crime against any other American citizen, when any real American knows that a victim of a homicide is just as dead as any other. Racial quotas, racial admissions preferences, extra-legal "consent decrees" are all foreseeable consequences of establishing a body that accepts the idea of "diversity" as a synonym for "unity" ; These are separate species. Of course, anyone calling the BS card on these programs is immediately tarred as a racist/sexist/homophobe. Aside from just not rejoining CAP, I don't know what kind of recourse we would have to ensure that CAP drops this kind of carp ( dyslexic license) and focuses on carrying out our actual missions instead of flying the rainbow banner over Maxwell.

Major Lord

[James Shaw]

I believe that it is a forwad thinking approach. I have no real opinion about the budget, but the position of Diversity Officer / Diversity Specialist has grown in alot of larger corporations.

[BillB]

Back in the day when we had segregated Squadrons, I was a Group Commander with a town with two Squadrons one black, one white. The black cadets were intersted in the military aspects, the white cadets interested in flying. The black cadets droppedout after two years or less because of costs of uniforms, encampments, supplies and equipment. The white cadets were better off financially. The costs of CAP are a major block for diversity. Does this extend to Senior membership? You can bet it does as black adults have jobs, normally, at least in this area on the low end of the money available and also time available for any organization. A farm worker doesn't have time to devote to CAP or most often the funds needed. The income status of blacks is a drawback to taking part in an organization such as CAP or even the Red Cross.
I can't see how a National Diversity Officer can change the interests in minorities or their funding problems.

[James Shaw]

Quotas are not what diversity is about.  Improving the program so, all who are attracted to CAP can activly participate and enjoy the benefits of membership is. 
The problem we have is figuring out how we can accomplish this without comprimising our assigned missions.  As Gen Carr said; "We are not a social club".

Alot of what is done within Diversity Training and the field with respect to it seems so complicated but is so basic, it is almost scary. We of course cannot and do not force people to participate if they don't want to. What the "Diversity Officer" (to me) would do is make sure that if ANYONE wants to partipcate and progress than we try to help them in the best way possible. This is of course is almost the same as the EOO Officer but with a proactive approach from the beginning.

This would have to be approached in a specific order:

1) Recruiting
2) Personal Development
3) Professional Development

IMHO

[lordmonar]

I can't see how a National Diversity Officer can change the interests in minorities or their funding problems.

That is one of the purposes of a NDO....I would think.  Advising local commanders on how to increase intrests in minorities, helping to overcome road blocks to their participation, and cross telling these solutions to other commanders.

It is not a hit on anyone who has "given up" on trying to reach minorities.  We are all very busy and we are going to focus our efforts on what gives us the best return on our investment.  However, if we can get some outside help, a little education and insight in ways to expand our membership diversity.

[James Shaw]

If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got.

I think this will be a good but challening position. It will require the person to work with alot of different people and specialties.

[Flying Pig]

Quotas are not what diversity is about.  Improving the program so, all who are attracted to CAP can activly participate and enjoy the benefits of membership is. 
The problem we have is figuring out how we can accomplish this without comprimising our assigned missions.  As Gen Carr said; "We are not a social club".

Alot of what is done within Diversity Training and the field with respect to it seems so complicated but is so basic, it is almost scary. We of course cannot and do not force people to participate if they don't want to. What the "Diversity Officer" (to me) would do is make sure that if ANYONE wants to partipcate and progress than we try to help them in the best way possible. This is of course is almost the same as the EOO Officer but with a proactive approach from the beginning.

This would have to be approached in a specific order:

1) Recruiting
2) Personal Development
3) Professional Development

IMHO

Hmmm, sounds like the Sq Commanders job?  I may have done that once or twice to include paying for peoples memberships (cadets) and providing encampment scholarships through fund raisers and free uniforms donated by AFROTC and AFJROTC units.  I never had a cadet who wanted to participate, not be able to participate.  Adults on the other hand? I did not advocate paying for an adults initial membership.  After youve been in, I had no issues with the Sq helping out a valuable member with a loan.  I had members who would have benefited from specialized training but did not have the money to attend.  The Sq made a way for it to happen and the member paid it back over time.
Ive had serious financial issues arise during my time in CAP, and at one point left CAP for a couple years until things got back in order.  CAP is available to anyone.  Diversity is not an issue.  There are demographics that may be poorer or under employed in areas of the nation.  That is not a problem CAP can resolve. 
I have a heart for kids.  You will reach these kids by recruiting at schools and recruiting out of HS JROTC units, church youth groups.  I could really care less about what races of adults are represented in CAP.   If you want it, you'll find a way.  As I have said before, I've had adults who were great additions to my unit who I went out of my way to assist them and I knew their situation. 

Lets not dance around the elephant in the room.  CAP is expensive.  CAP wants to find out how to make CAP more affordable for certain groups of people hoping it will make the program more accessible for certain demographics.  CAP will develop into those who can pay for activities and membership, supporting those who cant.  In time I see CAP having race based scholarships and "grant" type programs for certain demographics.  Everyone else does, CAP will soon follow. 

I remember back when I was in the Marines.  The Regiment Commander and the Sgt. Maj came and started talking about officer opportunities and started talking about the Marines wanting to encourage more commissioning opportunities for minorities and Marines who did not have their degrees.  What I missed was that it was specifically for minority Marines with no college.  I was to excited to worry about details.  They concluded with "If you are interested in commissioning opportunities, please head over to the chow hall after your dismissed. We will have Marine Officers available to assist you step by step in applying for these programs" 
Man!!  I was excited.  I was the first guy in line at the chow hall.  Followed by about 5 other "white" Marines.  All of us were Sq Leaders and generally solid young Marines.
I walked in and was greeted by a black female Marine 1Lt.   I introduced myself.  She was polite but asked what I needed.  I was a little stunned.  "I was in formation and they talked about commissioning plan for Marines with no college."   "Oh" she said.  "OK, we are specifically here for Marines who fall into minority categories.  If your interested in commissioning opportunities you can get a hold of your career counselor through the normal routes."  Yeah.....OK because grunts have the time for that sweetie (this was long before online college).... Did I mention no "minority" Marines showed up to the event?  So theres my take on "diversity".  Forgive my lack of applause over CAPs recent addition.  I cant wait to see whos gets left out so CAP can pursue their diversity goals.

[Flying Pig]

And don't get me started on my wife's experiences working for the Forest Service.  Those people have the "diversity" thing MASTERED!!!  Getting your degree paid for and a guaranteed job after you graduate is a pretty sweet deal for those who are able to check certain boxes on their applications. 

[Ned]

Lets not dance around the elephant in the room.  CAP is expensive. 

As I said, I am sure that the expense is certainly a factor, and perhaps even the largest single factor.

But I am fairly sure there is more going on.  I'm just not sure what it is, since I agree with the observations made here that we are generally pretty welcoming to almost anyone who shows up and can afford to participate.

But, if cost were the only significant factor, I would not expect to see a gender disparity of 80-20 in the cadet program, for instance.  I don't think we can make a case that young women in a given community are inherently less able to afford the costs of the cadet program than their similarly-situated brothers.

For gender in CP, there is something else going on.  I don't think anyone would seriously dispute that women benefit from leadership training, aerospace education, character education, and physical fitness on pretty much the same basis as men.  And I'm pretty sure that Ameilia Earhart, Jaqueline Cochran, Bessie Coleman, and Mary Feik would agree.  (Actually, I've spoken with Mary Feik on this issue, so I know she agrees.)

Now I suspect that this comment will draw multiple replies and I'll wager a cold beverage at the next NB meeting that there will be significant disagreement among experienced and reasonable CAP officers about exactly why we do not attract as many young women as young men.

Diversity Committees and Officers help us find the actual answers to such questions.

[Flying Pig]

Diversity Committees and Officers help us find the actual answers to such questions.

In my experience, they usually dont find the answers.  They just find a way to make it more accessible, ie. quotas, grants to certain groups, race based scholarships or sponsorships.  I was approached once by an African American church that wanted to provide "scholarships" to cadets.  When I told them that was a great idea, but that the command staff would decide who got the scholarships, they were only interested if the selectee was chosen from only black cadets.  They were promptly shown the door.
While trying to usher in one group, they alienate another.  Instead of just saying, here are the requirements, and sorry, but here is how much it costs too.  If there is anything done to alleviate any costs, it wont be across the board, it will be for only certain groups.
Pretty soon we will be more like law enforcement than we know.  African American Police Officers Assoc, Hispanic American Police Officers Assoc, Gay Lesbian Bi Sexual and Transgendered Officers Assoc, German American Police Officers Association, and the list goes on for every group you can name.  There is nothing diverse about it.  It gives the impression of diversity and unity only because people usually arent bold enough to call it what it is.
When in fact, it segregates people even further.  They say "Sure we are diverse just look at how many groups we have!"  Oh, but you cant be in my group unless you are ___________.  Its the natural progression.  People always associate racial cliques with prisons and gangs.  Civilized people do it to.  We just dont shoot people to do it to get the point across.  I was actually approached by the IGAPOA http://www.igapa.com/  I laughed at the guy and told him to keep his stupid business card and that I wasn't interested in dressing like a stupid outlaw biker.  He didnt like that.  But I didnt really care what he liked or didnt like.


Have fun CAP.  Your going to get exactly what your not looking for. 

[a2capt]

I'm of the opinion, Fight Discrimination. There are laws for that. Enforce them hard if need be.

Affirmative Action is basically discrimination to me.  Diversity has often more than not it seems lead to similar actions.

If the "white" people keep "black" people out, they howl about it. Rightfully so.
If the "black" people keep "white" people out, they're allowed to cite preservation of culture and it's looked past.

A girl fights to get in the Boy Scouts, but a boy could never get into the Girl Scouts on the same grounds.

Thank goodness CAP is open to all who show up and have the drive to participate.

[NCRblues]

Ned,

I would take a venture to say that the "gender" difference in CAP is the same as in the military. Fewer women want to play G.I. Joe (Jane I guess in this instance). A lot less girls want to put on combat boots and BDU's compared to males (I think you will have to speak to god on that one Ned, not much a diversity officer can do).

You can talk all about the leadership and aerospace education you want, but, we do those things in military uniforms that limit the free expression of the teenage/young adult female in question. It is not a mystery to me why we have less female cadets.