Uniforms on Memorial Day services

[Smokey]

OMG...... 4 pages of insanity.   

It's no wonder so many things don't get done in CAP.  If you can rag on for four pages about a simple invitation to honor our fallen heroes, then you are the problem in CAP.

Regulations cannot cover every situation. If you feel that wearing the uniform to honor those who have given the ultimate, and it causes you that much grief...DON'T WEAR THE UNIFORM.

The insanity (yes, insanity) of those who nit pick this simple directive need to get a grip on reality.  If those of you who want to have issue with this simple honor spent as much time whining about it here on doing something constructive for CAP it would be a much better organization.

I can't belive the childish behavior of some here.  Please, those of you with hearburn over honoring our war dead in this manner, take your ball and go home.

[Major Carrales]

What are the chances that some of the people making all the clamor about things on CAPTALK aren't in in the CIVIL AIR PATROL any longer?  That anonymity catch...that's some catch.

[JoeTomasone]

In this case it wasn't a REGION, WING, GROUP or SQUADRON commander's decision on the matter it came from a CAP governing body.

Right - one who issued clear regulations that spell out in detail how THEY and National HQ turn THEIR policies into regulations.   They made their own rules, don't follow them, and it's OK with everyone.

sure.  When I was a child my parents made rules....say bed time.....sometimes for exceptional reasons they made an exception...like Christmas.

They could easily issue policy (per the CAPR 5-4 reg, which, again, they caused to come into being), that changes CAPR 5-4 and permits them to issue memos like this that contradict regulations that (again) they devised - one which, in this case, states that deviations are not authorized. 

They could easily accomplish this the right way - they way that they themselves deemed that they should - yet they choose not to.   

Have you folks even read CAPR 5-4?   I really don't understand how you can defend this.

So quit.  It has always been like that....always will...both in CAP, USAF and most corporations that I know.

Wow.   Just...  Wow.   Good thing that our forefathers didn't have this attitude.   If they had just toed the line with lowered heads, we'd likely have a Queen today.

Ok, so you all don't care.   Fine.   Guess we will have to agree to disagree.   But perhaps your right, Major - maybe I should quit.   This certainly isn't the honorable organization I joined almost 30 years ago.   That one had integrity, pride in itself and its parent organization, and a sense of purpose and duty.  Now, we've trashed customs and courtesies, and apparently don't follow regulations or care when others do not.

Pretty disappointing, really.

So long, folks.

[Major Carrales]

In this case it wasn't a REGION, WING, GROUP or SQUADRON commander's decision on the matter it came from a CAP governing body.

Right - one who issued clear regulations that spell out in detail how THEY and National HQ turn THEIR policies into regulations.   They made their own rules, don't follow them, and it's OK with everyone.

sure.  When I was a child my parents made rules....say bed time.....sometimes for exceptional reasons they made an exception...like Christmas.

They could easily issue policy (per the CAPR 5-4 reg, which, again, they caused to come into being), that changes CAPR 5-4 and permits them to issue memos like this that contradict regulations that (again) they devised - one which, in this case, states that deviations are not authorized. 

They could easily accomplish this the right way - they way that they themselves deemed that they should - yet they choose not to.   

Have you folks even read CAPR 5-4?   I really don't understand how you can defend this.

So quit.  It has always been like that....always will...both in CAP, USAF and most corporations that I know.

Wow.   Just...  Wow.   Good thing that our forefathers didn't have this attitude.   If they had just toed the line with lowered heads, we'd likely have a Queen today.

Ok, so you all don't care.   Fine.   Guess we will have to agree to disagree.   But perhaps your right, Major - maybe I should quit.   This certainly isn't the honorable organization I joined almost 30 years ago.   That one had integrity, pride in itself and its parent organization, and a sense of purpose and duty.  Now, we've trashed customs and courtesies, and apparently don't follow regulations or care when others do not.

Pretty disappointing, really.

So long, folks.

I didn't tell you to quit.

The rest I have removed after rethinking the "drama" aspect of it.

[peter rabbit]

I have no problem wearing my uniform when requested to do so by the National Commander.

However, I have decided not to wear my uniform on that day for this one personal reason: I feel my wearing the uniform would draw attention to me and not to the people we are honoring.

[Major Carrales]

I have no problem wearing my uniform when requested to do so by the National Commander.

However, I have decided not to wear my uniform on that day for this one personal reason: I feel my wearing the uniform would draw attention to me and not to the people we are honoring.

Understandable...that is the sort of personal choice called for in the matter.

[Grumpy]

OMG...... 4 pages of insanity.   

It's no wonder so many things don't get done in CAP.  If you can rag on for four pages about a simple invitation to honor our fallen heroes, then you are the problem in CAP.

Regulations cannot cover every situation. If you feel that wearing the uniform to honor those who have given the ultimate, and it causes you that much grief...DON'T WEAR THE UNIFORM.

The insanity (yes, insanity) of those who nit pick this simple directive need to get a grip on reality.  If those of you who want to have issue with this simple honor spent as much time whining about it here on doing something constructive for CAP it would be a much better organization.

I can't believe the childish behavior of some here.  Please, those of you with hearburn over honoring our war dead in this manner, take your ball and go home.

Amen Brian!  May the good Lord bless you

[paladin82]

As a brand new member, I don't have a uniform yet.  And it's just as well.  I ran this directive by my pastor last week and received a very unexpected response.  I would likely not be allowed to wear the uniform on these days.  He said that since I am the minister of music, it would be too much of a distraction.

[RADIOMAN015]

As a brand new member, I don't have a uniform yet.  And it's just as well.  I ran this directive by my pastor last week and received a very unexpected response.  I would likely not be allowed to wear the uniform on these days.  He said that since I am the minister of music, it would be too much of a distraction.

Well I guess my questions is does your church allow anyone to wear uniforms to the service   Also IF you aren't getting paid by the church for your volunteer service, you can do what you want BUT IF you are getting paid than you are an employee and would have to abide by your employers rules.
RM

[JeffDG]

As a brand new member, I don't have a uniform yet.  And it's just as well.  I ran this directive by my pastor last week and received a very unexpected response.  I would likely not be allowed to wear the uniform on these days.  He said that since I am the minister of music, it would be too much of a distraction.

Well I guess my questions is does your church allow anyone to wear uniforms to the service   Also IF you aren't getting paid by the church for your volunteer service, you can do what you want BUT IF you are getting paid than you are an employee and would have to abide by your employers rules.
RM

So, then because CAP doesn't pay me for my voluntary service, I can do what I want?

[SarDragon]

As a brand new member, I don't have a uniform yet.  And it's just as well.  I ran this directive by my pastor last week and received a very unexpected response.  I would likely not be allowed to wear the uniform on these days.  He said that since I am the minister of music, it would be too much of a distraction.

Well I guess my questions is does your church allow anyone to wear uniforms to the service   Also IF you aren't getting paid by the church for your volunteer service, you can do what you want BUT IF you are getting paid than you are an employee and would have to abide by your employers rules.
RM

So, then because CAP doesn't pay me for my voluntary service, I can do what I want?

No. If you are there as a paid employee, you shouldn't be wearing your CAP uniform. If you are there as a CAP member, not getting paid by the church, then the uniform could, with permission, be worn.

[a2capt]

If you're sitting in the pews ... it's one thing, but participating in the production of the presentation in any way at all I would have to agree that it would be an a good idea to pass on it.

[JeffDG]

As a brand new member, I don't have a uniform yet.  And it's just as well.  I ran this directive by my pastor last week and received a very unexpected response.  I would likely not be allowed to wear the uniform on these days.  He said that since I am the minister of music, it would be too much of a distraction.

Well I guess my questions is does your church allow anyone to wear uniforms to the service   Also IF you aren't getting paid by the church for your volunteer service, you can do what you want BUT IF you are getting paid than you are an employee and would have to abide by your employers rules.
RM

So, then because CAP doesn't pay me for my voluntary service, I can do what I want?

No. If you are there as a paid employee, you shouldn't be wearing your CAP uniform. If you are there as a CAP member, not getting paid by the church, then the uniform could, with permission, be worn.

What the poster said was that he had a role in the service "minister of music".  Then RM made the distinction between if he was a paid employee (in which case he had to do as the pastor required) or an unpaid volunteer (in which case he could ignore the demands of the pastor).  I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of that.  Volunteers need to follow the dictates of their organizations just the same as paid employees, as we in CAP are well aware.

[ol'fido]

WOW!! This one just jumped the shark!

[a2capt]

Just the usual noise when the squelch is broken on the radio from that particular station ..

[SarDragon]

^^  ^^

[ol'fido]

Wore my uniform  to church today. Very good reception from everyone.