CAP Emergency Services Patch

[coastguard69]

Which do you prefer: the Goofy Dog, the Small Plane, or the Large Plane? I'm just wondering what people think, and please include why you think that way.

[SJFedor]

For the BDU's? None.

It's a uniform blouse, not a boy scout patch-sash thing.

[SAREXinNY]

I wear the dog patch, only because everyone else in my squadron wears that one.  Personally, I'm not a fan of any of them.  None really look like they "fit" very well with the uniform.

[Eclipse]

None. It's not a NASCAR firesuit.

And there's only two currently approved, so not sure about the "small plane / large plane" comment.

[coastguard69]

there are 2 different sizes of the airplane ES patch, one is substantionally larger than the other

[Eclipse]

there are 2 different sizes of the airplane ES patch, one is substantionally larger than the other

No, there are not.

This:
http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-oval-p-15625.html

and this:
http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html

Are the only two currently approved for wear.

[coastguard69]

i've seen the two plane patches next to eachother and they are different sizes.

[Luis R. Ramos]

i never noticed any difference in the plane size, and I have twelve years in CAP!

In any event, CAP/NHQ only mentions one. For that matter, Vanguard only sells one size of airplane, so asking this question is like asking what shade of blue you prefer on a Find ribbon, or whether you prefer one shade of green over another for a Unit Citation ribbon...

Flyer

[PHall]

I don't worry about since I don't wear any patches that are not required. Period...

[Eclipse]

i've seen the two plane patches next to eachother and they are different sizes.

I've got 14 years in and have only seen one size of the T-34 patch.  Unless you've got photos, no idea what you are talking about.

Members do a lot of things, including making their own patches, not to mention we used to have an unauthorized vendor who played
fairly loose with specs on sizes and color, so who knows. 

What is shown above is the only one authorized. 

[SAREXinNY]

CAP Manual 39-1, Chapter 6, Section B, Page 22:

Only 2 patches are currently authorized.

[a2capt]

The current T-34 is a remake, the other one has a bit more rectangular, less oval look, and is a little bigger.  I'm not interested in any of them.

[coastguard69]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/530114_504538376226774_1769054562_n.jpg

2nd guy on the right does not pass the name tape


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/539405_3793749694718_1055191516_n.jpg

2nd guy on the left almost exceeds the edges of the tape

[Luis R. Ramos]

As I stated, and Eclipse states, for all intents and purposes there has been only one airplane patch authorized.

As A2 states, the current one is a remake of the older one. However this thread is like stating "there are two versions of the Unit Citation Ribbon" when two slightly different shades of green appear in the manufacture.

Those slight manufacturing differences are not enough, in my opinion, to say "there are two."

And although I wear both patches in my BDUs, I prefer the airplane.

Flyer

[coastguard69]

thank you for finally actually answering the question

[Eclipse]

Someone should be more concerned about Hoover's earrings then his T-34 patch.

[Luis R. Ramos]

These photos are not good proof.

Cannot be assessed whether those guys placed the insignia correctly centered. Make a  photo of both insignias side by side. That is the only way you can prove whether they are, indeed, different in size.

As stated, I had an old insignia, then when they came out with the new airplane remake, I could not distinguish any difference. Except probably in feel. As one felt smoother, because it was worn and been washed with the uniform, and the other felt stiffer as it was newer and not worn.

Flyer

[coastguard69]

he does not have earrings, it is the glare from the very bright sun in oshkosh

also if you cannot see a definite size difference, then you're not looking closely at all

[Eclipse]

he does not have earrings, it is the glare from the very bright sun in oshkosh

also if you cannot see a definite size difference, then you're not looking closely at all

Those are very clearly earrings. 

As to the size difference, we've already explained that it is likely an anomaly of he vendor, not a distinction
as to one or the other.

[Luis R. Ramos]

His last post seems to point that he has had too much sun in his CAP career.

Flyer

[coastguard69]

haha he does not have earrings, he is a close friend of mine

[Eclipse]

Then he needs to see a dermatologist to figure out what's growing on both his ears.

[coastguard69]

so you can notice something that's not even there, but you cannot notice the blatant size difference of the patches... hmmm typical CapTalk person right here

[Eclipse]

so you can notice something that's not even there, but you cannot notice the blatant size difference of the patches... hmmm typical CapTalk person right here

We've already acknowledged there might be a discrepancy in the manufacturer of the patches, cadet, however there is
no choice between "large and small".

[coastguard69]

you talk like rank matters here... its a website, we're probably hundreds of miles away from eachother

and by looking at your rack, I know you've never been a cadet so don't talk down to a computer screen, makes you seem like a tool

[Eclipse]

you talk like rank matters here... its a website, we're probably hundreds of miles away from eachother

and by looking at your rack, I know you've never been a cadet so don't talk down to a computer screen, makes you seem like a tool

That didn't take long.  You are expected to comport yourself in the same manner in regards to senior members here as in person,
especially considering you've decided to post with your name and unit in the open.

As to my experience, I would hazard I have just a little bit of a clue about the cadet program.

[Spaceman3750]

you talk like rank matters here... its a website, we're probably hundreds of miles away from eachother

and by looking at your rack, I know you've never been a cadet so don't talk down to a computer screen, makes you seem like a tool

Actually, you were being disrespectful to a Lt. Col with likely as much time in service as you have walked this earth. You were being reminded of the fact that you are a cadet in a forum designed for seniors and being completely insubordinate with your name and location in full public view.

[coastguard69]

This is the "UNNOFFICIAL forum of Civil Air Patrol" no regulations or rules except for code of conduct. I showed no disrepect at all towards LtCol just stating that he cannot see the obvious, he imagines quite vividly what is not at all there, and that he was not a cadet and I did not believe he truly knows the cadet programs with how he began talking down to me. In fact, I believe he was much more disrepectful to me than I was to him, immediately setting out to proove me wrong rather than just answer my question, then saying I'm lying about there being patches of different sizes, even further say I'm lying about my good friend having earrings, and finally using the oppressive word, in italics, "cadet"

[CAP4117]

makes you seem like a tool

I showed no disrepect at all towards LtCol

See where I'm going with this? Sounds disrespectful to me.

[coastguard69]

key word... "seem". Meaning appearing to be. Never said he was, just saying his attitude was very disrespectful

[CAP4117]

A good rule of thumb to follow is to ask yourself, would I have said that to a LtCol, or any senior member for that matter, in person? No? Then I'd better not say it here.

[Eclipse]

This is the "UNNOFFICIAL forum of Civil Air Patrol" no regulations or rules except for code of conduct. I showed no disrepect at all towards LtCol just stating that he cannot see the obvious, he imagines quite vividly what is not at all there, and that he was not a cadet and I did not believe he truly knows the cadet programs with how he began talking down to me. In fact, I believe he was much more disrepectful to me than I was to him, immediately setting out to proove me wrong rather than just answer my question, then saying I'm lying about there being patches of different sizes, even further say I'm lying about my good friend having earrings, and finally using the oppressive word, in italics, "cadet"

Cadet, do you believe that the internet, and your behavior on it, somehow exists outside the normal rules for decorum and respect, especially
when engaged in a discussion with senior members?  Well let us assist you in correcting that misunderstanding, because it doesn't. 

Whether it's Facebook, Twitter, some other "social" service, email, or yes, here on this "unofficial forum", you can very well be held accountable for
your actions and comments.  The internet does not exist in a neutral zone of behavior.

As to the specific situation, we've acknowledge that you may have seen incorrectly sized patches, and if the cadet in question isn't wearing earring,
then clearly I was incorrect, however that does not give you license to be disrespectful, especially when none of us were.

Further, if you believe the term "cadet" is "oppressive", you may find yourself somewhat challenged in CAP, since it is a proper term of address
for a cadet member, regardless of grade, and especially from a senior member.

[coastguard69]

And should a senior member talk to a cadet like that? call them a lier on a subject they know infinitely more about than they do (about the earring deal) then oppress them when they feel threatened... that's never happened to me before

Again, I was not disrespectful, just blatant on what I felt. Please call it untactful, if that is a word.

[coastguard69]

If I came off as disrepectful, however, I sincerly apologize, and I mean it. It's not my goal to disrespect anybody here, just find answers, and you made it very, very hard for me to do that. So, I am sorry, I'll be sure to never ask another question on CapTalk again if this is how myself and many other cadets get treated

[a2capt]

..and how are you the NCCGC Commander if you placed 3rd at Region?
Your unit holds the title of SCWG Color Guard, and that's where it ends.

The Internet is very real. Many learn the hard way.

As for the "choice" of size on that patch, there may very well be an unofficial choice. If you source an older one, you get the "larger" one. I think the newer one looks better of the two, it's a bit sharper.

[coastguard69]

Oh... I thought the whole activity was called the national cadet color guard competition... That's just what I was told by the officials there.

[Eclipse]

If I came off as disrepectful, however, I sincerly apologize, and I mean it. It's not my goal to disrespect anybody here, just find answers, and you made it very, very hard for me to do that.

Several experienced members answered your questions directly and immediately  - you chose to continue the argument about the patch size.
Cadets are treated no different then anyone else on this board.

[abdsp51]

Cadet,

You will find that what you do here and how you carry yourself here will or will not bite you at your home unit.  Also perception is reality, and while this may be an unofficial message board there is still a code of conduct to be followed. 

And I will say this that I was a prior cadet, and I am currently a cadet programs officer and if you were in my unit and I saw this we'd be having a chat. More than one cadet has had to learn of the consequences of their actions here.

And here is some insight for you senior members no longer where the multitude of cadet ribbons if they have transferred from being a cadet. 

[a2capt]

Group/Wing, Region and then National. You compete, work your way up to the National Cadet Competition, by prevailing at the subordinate competitions, that it's also recommended that they use CAPM 52-4 as the basis for the competition, it's still the Group/Wing/Region Competition, and the highest you go with 1st place is your title held.

Those "larger" patches are available on eBay, and some other sites that may be selling CAP stuff, as used, pulled, old stock, etc. If you want one from the Big V right now, you get the 'smaller' one.

[BillB]

There was a slight difference in the T-34 patch that the CAP Bookstore sold and the patch that Vanguard was selling after the Bookstore stocks were sold out. The Bookstore T-34 patch did have a slightly larger T-34 on the patch. But the difference was so small you would not notice it unless you put the two patchs side by side.

[Storm Chaser]

coastguard69,

Let it go. You are a cadet and Eclipse is a Lt Col. You want to disagree with him; fine. But you still need to show respect. He called you "cadet", which is what you are. Why do you take offence? He did not insulted you. Furthermore, you questioned his experience with the Cadet Programs based on his "rack". If you look at the badge to the right of his ribbons, you'll see that he has a Master Rating in Cadet Programs which signifies that he does have experience with cadets. You are out of line here, not him.

As to the issue with the ES patch. There are two official patches: the round one with the dog and the oval one with the plane. Yes, I've seen the "smaller" plane patch. But since you can't purchase it from Vanguard (our official uniform vendor), it makes it an unofficial patch. Period.

[jeders]

A few things to keep in mind about pictures.

1. these are pictures of different people, under different conditions (distance, focal length, lighting), from different perspectives (looking up versus straight on).

2. Lighting does screwy things. Obviously Mr. Hoover's ears are angled in such a way that it catches the light perfectly and reflects it into the camera. Considering that this is at NBB and no one is wearing a beret, then they are obviously out working and just grabbed a quick photo op. So it's probably just a bit of sweat on his ear lobe.

3. Mr. Hoover's uniform looks quite a bit looser than the other gentleman's top, and so it is possible that the pocket, and therefore the tape, are wider on Hoover's uniform. This would make it seem as if the patch was smaller.

And here's a little bit of free advise. It doesn't matter if you're a brand new cadet or a 20 year Col., we all try to treat each other with respect as we should. Eclipse addressed you frankly but respectfully, to which you answered back as if you were in the locker room with a group of friends.

A good rule of thumb to follow is to ask yourself, would I have said that to a LtCol, or any senior member for that matter, in person? No? Then I'd better not say it here.

I always use the rule of, "would I say this to my parents/grandparents?" I can tell you that if I'd have called any of my parents or grandparents a tool, I'd be in a world of hurt. I have to assume that the same would be true for you.

[Devil Doc]

So, According to this Cadet,

If we were never a Cadet oursleves we dont have the same respect, priveledges and rights, as SMs who was a Cadet?

This may be an "Unofficial CAP Forum" but these members on here have been in CAP longer than
I have been Alive, so I respect them regardless of there rank.

[tribalelder]

First, my fellow grownups, we were 17 and knew everything once.

In ancient times - late 60's /early 70's if I recall, when the dog patch was the only E/S patch, it was available in 2 sizes. The small was intended for use on a baseball cap. The t-34 E/S patch was, during a part of the bookstore era, also available as a reflectorized decal, with the upper row of text larger and upper text boxed bumped out with corners on it, for application to hard hats or helmet liners.

Don't recall a small version of T-34 patch.

[Storm Chaser]

There's a slightly smaller version of the airplane patch, with more rounded edges. I've only seen old patches, so I'm not sure if the patch evolved in size over time or if it was manufactured by third party vendors. Either way, the one by Vanguard is the official one as it stands now.

[Sapper168]

you talk like rank matters here... its a website, we're probably hundreds of miles away from eachother

and by looking at your rack, I know you've never been a cadet so don't talk down to a computer screen, makes you seem like a tool

Civil Air Patrol Core Values- Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect

Learn to Lead Vol 1, pg9 -  The Core Values are the four basic qualities CAP expects all members to display at all times: Integrity First, Volunteer Service, Excellence in All We Do, and Respect.

Hate to say it but the CADET should know this if he has his Wright Brothers.  If he doesn't someone dropped the ball somewhere. Then again what do I know only a Technician rating in CP. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

you talk like rank matters here... its a website, we're probably hundreds of miles away from eachother

and by looking at your rack, I know you've never been a cadet so don't talk down to a computer screen, makes you seem like a tool

Hooooooooooooboy!


Take a look at my rack, cadet.


You may recognize something. But guess what. While you were prowling Eclipses rack for a Mitchell or higher, you clearly missed the numerous higher CAP awards. Most of which would sit higher in precedence than a Spaatz award would.

Also, as I have been a cadet I guess I get to talk down to the computer, right?


Well guess what. Eclipse called me cadet many times in my life. Probably more than you've been called a cadet so far in CAP. When I was at your grade, Eclipse already knew the Cadet Program better than I did. And that was oh just short of 10 years ago. Today I'm one of those SMs who WIWAC a lot. But if there is ONE thing I know, it is the fact that to be a Deputy Commander of Cadets, and to attain the Master Rating in Cadet Programs involves so much more broad knowledge of the cadet program than even Spaatz cadets have that there is simply no competition. I've been an active SM working with cadets for a year and a half. Getting the Senior rating in Cadet Programs is actually not a cakewalk. Not to mention the Master rating.


So the next time you decide to seek out a Mitchell ribbon on someone's uniform, maybe take a look up north for other awards, take a stroll down south and peek at their CP badge if they have one. Never assume anything from what you see a SM wear, and certainly never think that what you displayed here was appropriate for "just an online forum" or in real life.

[C/2d Lt]

Is there an Emergency Service Patch that is authorized for the blues uniform?

[Eclipse]

Is there an Emergency Service Patch that is authorized for the blues uniform?

No.

No CAP patches of any kind are worn on the USAF-Style blues.

[lordmonar]

Is there an Emergency Service Patch that is authorized for the blues uniform?

The is an ES badge for the blues....but IIRC only seniors can earn it.

[Hawk200]

According to 35-6, page 2, para. 2a: "Note: Cadets can earn the Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge as they can complete all of the requirements for this rating, though they cannot officially receive the Technician Rating until they become a senior member."

They can earn it, but don't get the specialty track as a cadet. Most of the cadets that I've seen legitimately wearing it (IOW not just putting it on because they thought it was the equivalent of the ES patch on blues) were all older cadets, most very close to mandatory senior transition.

[C/2d Lt]

The the emergency services badge and patch are two different things?

[JeffDG]

The the emergency services badge and patch are two different things?

Absolutely.

The patch may be authorized for anyone who has any ES Qualification beyond GES.

The badge is primarily for senior members who have attained at least a "TECHNICIAN" rating in the ES Specialty track, however, as has been noted, cadets who meet the same requirements may be eligibile for the badge as well.

Both the patch and the badge must be requested when eligible, and they go through OpsQuals for approval at unit, group and wing.

[jeders]

The the emergency services badge and patch are two different things?

Yes. The patch mearly requires you to be GES qual'd plus one additional requirement. The badge requires several additional service requirements.

When I was a young cadet, I was told by a senior member I trusted on thesematters that they were equivelant, and that I should wear the badge on my blues. I was soon corrected when another more knowledgeable senior member saw it.

[Eclipse]

Assuming you turn senior, you have to remove the badge until you earn the rating as a senior.

[Storm Chaser]

Assuming you turn senior, you have to remove the badge until you earn the rating as a senior.

That's an interesting statement, but one that's not really supported by current regulations. Unlike the other specialty track badges, the ES badge is an ES Award with its own separate approval process. What happens when a cadet earns this badge, it's approved and recorded in eServices, and then the cadet becomes a senior member? Is this ES Award automatically removed from Ops Quals? I don't know the answer to that for sure, but I would venture to say that probably not. CAPR 35-6 doesn't state that the cadet loses the badge, but that they don't receive the technician rating.

An analogy to this (although not a perfect one), is cadets who earn the senior ground team badge by completing an authorized advanced GSAR course. They don't lose the badge when they turn 18 if they don't become GTLs. They also don't automatically become GTLs just because they turn 18 and have previously earned the senior GT badge.

[Storm Chaser]

The is an ES badge for the blues....but IIRC only seniors can earn it.

Cadets may earn the ES, Safety and Communications badges, although as stated they cannot earn the appropriate technician rating, which is reserved for senior members.

[Eclipse]

It is >not< recorded in eServices, and for that matter, none of the specialty badges are recorded in eservices, only the
specialty-track level completion is recorded in the training section.

The cadet earns the badge, not the rating.

It is not analogous to a qualification badge like GTL, since they cadets eligible for the qualification, which brings with it the badge.

See this KB article:  http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/562/kw/cadets%20specialty%20track

Are Cadets authorized to wear specialty track badges? If so, what are the requirements for earning these badges?

Yes cadets can earn and wear certain specialty badges although they do not receive the technician rating until they complete the requirements as senior members. There are some positions which have age limitations which would prohibit cadets from holding certain jobs. See the regulations below for more specific details.

See  CAPR 35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges 17 Aug 2002.
This regulation defines the requirements and outlines procedures for the award of CAP Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges.

Paragraph 2. Requirements for Award of Emergency Services (ES) Qualification Badges:
a. CAP Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge: Complete all requirements of CAPP 213, Emergency Services Officer-Specialty Track Study Guide, Technician Rating. Note: Cadets can earn the Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge as they can complete all of the requirements for this rating, though they cannot officially receive the Technician Rating until they become a senior member.

Also see  CAPR 60-3 CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions 26 December 2012 .
This regulation prescribes concepts, policies, and standards that govern all Civil Air Patrol (CAP) supervisory, ground, and flight personnel in the training, qualification, and execution of CAP operational missions.

See also: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1144

And the comment in bold below:

Change: CAPP 227  Information Technology Officer Specialty Track Study Guide
Cadets who serve as Cadet Information Technology Officers (C/ITO) are not eligible to earn the IT specialty rating. However, those cadets who serve in this capacity for a minimum of one year and complete the required duties may be authorized to wear the basic IT Specialty Badge for the duration of their cadet membership upon approval of their wing commander (authority may be delegated). The authority to wear the badge may be documented by completion of a CAPF 2a, Request for and Approval of Personnel Actions, and retained in the cadet's personnel file. The wear of the badge as a cadet does not translate to the earned technician rating once a cadet becomes a senior member. Cadets who become senior members will need to complete all of the requirements established at the time that they complete the training as a senior member.[/b]

[johnnyb47]

OPS Quals, ES Awards.
All three ES Badges are listed with check boxes.
One would imagine that this is to force the same approval process as the GTM Badges or ES Patches.
Is it used now? Or just something in place for a future development?

[Eclipse]

I'm not saying that applicable work already completed evaporates, only that as a cadet you can get the badge without the rating, but
not as a senior.

I can't post the full text of the Tech rating from CAPP 213, because for some bizarre reason it's text-copy protected, but
the only thing that would really need to be "redone", would be being assigned as ESO or A/ESO, and serve for a year.

The rest of the work, presumably, would be documented, but for at least a year, and until the Tech is approved, the badge
goes back in the jewelry box.

[Eclipse]

OPS Quals, ES Awards.
All three ES Badges are listed with check boxes.
One would imagine that this is to force the same approval process as the GTM Badges or ES Patches.
Is it used now? Or just something in place for a future development?

Honestly, who knows?  Maybe it is a permanent award. 

I never really understood the point of having to "award" something which is self-actualizing, though in this case
I think it was mostly because of people who go dark for years but still wear the badge (as is correct).

Another place a simple sentence ends the conversation.

Seriously, don't the people writing these regs have discussions over pizza about what could come up down the road?

On a senior award given to a cadet, the first question I'd ask is whether it's permanent or not, and if >not<, then
what is required to get it back.

The problem is that things are awarded and changed from every angle, making it difficult to track all the vectors.

[a2capt]

I can't post the full text of the Tech rating from CAPP 213, because for some bizarre reason it's text-copy protected..

<OT Reply>It's not copy protected so much as it's probably one of those "reduced" versions they seem to like to publish now.. where it's actually not even text anymore, but graphics. They need to stop this. I've come across a few of these PDFs that the search function didn't work, and that was why. The ones that have 'reduced' in the goobbltygooked filename. Yay for crummy CMS's.</OT Reply Rant>

[Eclipse]

I can't post the full text of the Tech rating from CAPP 213, because for some bizarre reason it's text-copy protected..

<OT Reply>It's not copy protected so much as it's probably one of those "reduced" versions they seem to like to publish now.. where it's actually not even text anymore, but graphics. They need to stop this. I've come across a few of these PDFs that the search function didn't work, and that was why. The ones that have 'reduced' in the goobbltygooked filename. Yay for crummy CMS's.</OT Reply Rant>

No, it's actually copy protected, with a password, and has re-distill and text protection.

Ridiculous.

They must be worried that the US Ranger Corps will steal our plans.

[Storm Chaser]

CAPP 227 is >not< CAPP 213 or CAPR 35-6 and its information is irrelevant to how cadets earn the ES badge. Furthermore, the ES badge >is< recorded in eServices in the Ops Quals module under ES Awards and requires a separate approval process. That means that even when senior members earn a specialty track rating in ES, they must go through the entire approval process to be awarded the appropriate ES badge.

When you earn an award, badge or insignia as a cadet, you continue wearing it when you become a senior member unless prohibited by a regulation (cadet awards must usually be approved to wear as a senior member). So, if you can quote a regulation stating that cadets cannot wear the badge once they become senior members, then I'll stand corrected.

The badge and the rating are >not< the same. Senior members can earn the badge by completing the CAPP 213 requirements and earning the appropriate rating. Cadets can earn the badge by completing the CAPP 213 requirements without earning the rating, which they cannot earn as cadets. Ratings are required for professional development levels and promotions. The badges are not. They are related, but they're not the same; at least not for ES.

[Storm Chaser]

On a senior award given to a cadet, the first question I'd ask is whether it's permanent or not, and if >not<, then
what is required to get it back.

That is a valid question, unfortunately one that is not answered by current regulations.

[SarDragon]

It is >not< recorded in eServices, and for that matter, none of the specialty badges are recorded in eservices, only the
specialty-track level completion is recorded in the training section.

Wrong answer, sports fans!

Copied directly from the ES Awards page in eServices:
CAP Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Senior Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Master Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Basic Ground Team Badge
CAP Senior Ground Team Badge
CAP Master Ground Team Badge
CAP Emergency Services Patch

Each has a check box next to it for submission up the chain. When approved, the text is green, as above. (I copied it from my list.)

The cadet earns the badge, not the rating.

It is not analogous to a qualification badge like GTL, since they cadets eligible for the qualification, which brings with it the badge.

See this KB article:  http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/562/kw/cadets%20specialty%20track

Are Cadets authorized to wear specialty track badges? If so, what are the requirements for earning these badges?

Yes cadets can earn and wear certain specialty badges although they do not receive the technician rating until they complete the requirements as senior members. There are some positions which have age limitations which would prohibit cadets from holding certain jobs. See the regulations below for more specific details.

See  CAPR 35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges 17 Aug 2002.
This regulation defines the requirements and outlines procedures for the award of CAP Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges.

Paragraph 2. Requirements for Award of Emergency Services (ES) Qualification Badges:
a. CAP Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge: Complete all requirements of CAPP 213, Emergency Services Officer-Specialty Track Study Guide, Technician Rating. Note: Cadets can earn the Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge as they can complete all of the requirements for this rating, though they cannot officially receive the Technician Rating until they become a senior member.

Also see  CAPR 60-3 CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions 26 December 2012 .
This regulation prescribes concepts, policies, and standards that govern all Civil Air Patrol (CAP) supervisory, ground, and flight personnel in the training, qualification, and execution of CAP operational missions.

See also: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1144

And the comment in bold below:

Change: CAPP 227  Information Technology Officer Specialty Track Study Guide
Cadets who serve as Cadet Information Technology Officers (C/ITO) are not eligible to earn the IT specialty rating. However, those cadets who serve in this capacity for a minimum of one year and complete the required duties may be authorized to wear the basic IT Specialty Badge for the duration of their cadet membership upon approval of their wing commander (authority may be delegated). The authority to wear the badge may be documented by completion of a CAPF 2a, Request for and Approval of Personnel Actions, and retained in the cadet's personnel file. The wear of the badge as a cadet does not translate to the earned technician rating once a cadet becomes a senior member. Cadets who become senior members will need to complete all of the requirements established at the time that they complete the training as a senior member.

All the quoting you just did does not disagree, in any way, with what has previously been stated. Simply restated: The cadet can wear the badge, but doesn't get the rating until he becomes a senior member and completes the training.

[Eclipse]

Yeah, pretty much came to that conclusion above.

[ol'fido]

BITD, you took the ES test, got qualified in something, and you put on the patch. No eServices, no 2a, nada. It wasn't that big a deal. You put it on or you didn't and no one really cared. Too much heartburn over a little thing.

[Storm Chaser]

BITD, you took the ES test, got qualified in something, and you put on the patch. No eServices, no 2a, nada. It wasn't that big a deal. You put it on or you didn't and no one really cared. Too much heartburn over a little thing.

You shouldn't wear the ES patch unless it's been approved. That said, you really can't compare the ES patch to the ES badge. Anyone qualified on an ES specialty can be approved for the patch, but there are many more requirements needed to earn the ES badge, including serving as an ES officer for a year. If we just look the other way when members wear awards that have not been officially approved or documented, it would be much more easier for members who have not actually earn them to wear them without no one questioning it. It is a big deal.

[Private Investigator]

Which do you prefer: the Goofy Dog, the Small Plane, or the Large Plane? I'm just wondering what people think, and please include why you think that way.

Goofy of course. In the world of Disney, Goofy came after Mickey but before "Planes" which should be in a theater near you in August.   

[ol'fido]

BITD, you took the ES test, got qualified in something, and you put on the patch. No eServices, no 2a, nada. It wasn't that big a deal. You put it on or you didn't and no one really cared. Too much heartburn over a little thing.

You shouldn't wear the ES patch unless it's been approved. That said, you really can't compare the ES patch to the ES badge. Anyone qualified on an ES specialty can be approved for the patch, but there are many more requirements needed to earn the ES badge, including serving as an ES officer for a year. If we just look the other way when members wear awards that have not been officially approved or documented, it would be much more easier for members who have not actually earn them to wear them without no one questioning it. It is a big deal.

Didn't say anything about the badge.. Like I said BACK IN THE DAY, it was a local approval. No eServices approval. No wing ES approval. Squadron commander approved it. You wore it. Not a big deal with getting it approved or wearing it. Today, it seems to be causing all sorts of heartburn.

[Storm Chaser]

I agree that the approval of the ES patch should be simpler. In fact, I'm in favor of the patch being automatically approved and recorded in eServices once wing approves the necessary qualifications. The same should happen for other ES awards such as ground team badges. Once wing approves a GTM3 qual, for example, the system should automatically approve the basic GT badge. I never understood why both have to go through the same, but separate, approval process.

[JeffDG]

I agree that the approval of the ES patch should be simpler. In fact, I'm in favor of the patch being automatically approved and recorded in eServices once wing approves the necessary qualifications. The same should happen for other ES awards such as ground team badges. Once wing approves a GTM3 qual, for example, the system should automatically approve the basic GT badge. I never understood why both have to go through the same, but separate, approval process.

Me neither...it's not like the approvers have discretion to decline to approve an otherwise valid request...that said, I can't tell you how many Master GT Badges I've had to disapprove at Wing level after making it through Unit and Group approvals when the guy didn't have a GBD.

The Basic ES Badge for Cadets may have to have an approval, because the requirements aren't recorded in eServices (like for a senior:  Technician=Approved), but otherwise, they're basically check a box and you're eligible.

[Storm Chaser]

...I can't tell you how many Master GT Badges I've had to disapprove at Wing level after making it through Unit and Group approvals when the guy didn't have a GBD.

That wouldn't happen if the Master GT Badge was automatically approved in the system once GBD was approved by wing.

The Basic ES Badge for Cadets may have to have an approval, because the requirements aren't recorded in eServices (like for a senior:  Technician=Approved), but otherwise, they're basically check a box and you're eligible.

Agree. This particular ES award makes sense the way it's set in Ops Quals. Yet, they could program the system to approve the badge for senior members once the appropriate specialty track rating is approved in eServices.

[flyboy53]

...I can't tell you how many Master GT Badges I've had to disapprove at Wing level after making it through Unit and Group approvals when the guy didn't have a GBD.

That wouldn't happen if the Master GT Badge was automatically approved in the system once GBD was approved by wing.

The Basic ES Badge for Cadets may have to have an approval, because the requirements aren't recorded in eServices (like for a senior:  Technician=Approved), but otherwise, they're basically check a box and you're eligible.

Agree. This particular ES award makes sense the way it's set in Ops Quals. Yet, they could program the system to approve the badge for senior members once the appropriate specialty track rating is approved in eServices.

Guess I should one day look at the qualifications for the ES Badge to see what I would have to do to qualify for it.  Although I agree with you about the way the approval process is accomplished in e-services, I understand why it is that way.

I'm of that era where BITD the approval for the ES patch was a local commander's option. I hold the patch because of my ES ratings, but the E-services process evolved largely because of so many individuals who would just put the badges on without the ratings to back them up. Unfortunately, the practice still exists today, which sometimes makes it interesting at a mission when someone shows up wearing the GBD and master observer badges and has no proof that he was ever even entitled to wear the basic badges.

Personally, I don't really wear the ES patch even though it is among my qualifications; largely because it amounts to flight suit bling and should really be one of the optional patches for the right shoulder. The current oval T-34 patch is great for a baseball cap but looks like a gas station/airline emblem on a flight suit or utility uniform.

Goofy the Dog is a historical patch that was once worn (even on a baseball cap) by the CAP's Owner Pilot Service, I don't believe it really looks professional or reflects our missions today.

As far as the patches go, my favorite was an orange T-34-type patch that was round and came in two sizes back in the 60s or early 70s. I'm not sure why it was changed of if it can still be worn today. Either way, I know I still have at least one, but there again, the T-34 is no longer in our inventory.

[Hawk200]

... you really can't compare the ES patch to the ES badge. Anyone qualified on an ES specialty can be approved for the patch, but there are many more requirements needed to earn the ES badge, ...

Starting to think that there needs to be an equivalent specifically for the utility uniforms (which I'm including anything other than dress type uniforms such as BDU, BBDU, Flightsuits green and blue, and the jumpsuit, etc.)

Communications and Safety, for example, both have specifically equivalent patches for the utilities. For ES, give it an "associated" shape and placement so people can tell it's specialty related and not just an ES qual.

It may not be a popular idea, but someone at an incident site or SAR-EX ought to have a role similar to a training manager. Someone would review the quals of anyone coming in, and pair those with lapsed or about to laps quals with someone who is current. The individual needing currency would be supervised by someone knowledgeable. This would separate those just wearing patches from those that are competent.

I'm thinking that this kind of thing should probably be included in the ICS system as well. CAP can't be the only organization with currency lapses that should be addressed.