Basic, Doolie, Etc

[MIKE]

NOTE Cadets are addressed as `Cadet` by CAP senior
members, USAF officers, and enlisted personnel. Within the
cadet structure, cadets will address other cadets by the
appropriate term.

That would be airman, sergeant or chief... Not Doolie or Basic.  CAPR 52-16 2-3. e. dictates that all cadets will wear their earned grade on their uniform at every CAP activity, so it stands to reason that they should addressed in a manner befitting their earned grade.

Instead we have special names for cadets attending their first encampment, or those who either aren't staff or aren't attending some sort of advanced course.  My argument is that one should not differentiate.

[Hawk200]

A little websearch turned up this:

http://dictionary.infoplease.com/doolie

Pronunciation: (dOO'lē), [key] —n. Slang. a first-year cadet in the U.S. Air Force Academy

And this:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/doolie

doolie (plural doolies) (US) A first year student at the United States Air Force Academy; a cadet freshman

None of which apply to a CAP cadet, anyway. CAP personnel need to get away from "adopting" military terminology that doesn't apply to us.

[SSgt Rudin]

NOTE Cadets are addressed as `Cadet` by CAP senior
members, USAF officers, and enlisted personnel. Within the
cadet structure, cadets will address other cadets by the
appropriate term.

That would be airman, sergeant or chief... Not Doolie or Basic.  CAPR 52-16 2-3. e. dictates that all cadets will wear their earned grade on their uniform at every CAP activity, so it stands to reason that they should addressed in a manner befitting their earned grade.

Instead we have special names for cadets attending their first encampment, or those who either aren't staff or aren't attending some sort of advanced course.  My argument is that one should not differentiate.

And CAPP 52-15 specifically refers to cadets attending their first encampment as "basic cadets."

[mikeylikey]

And CAPP 52-15 specifically refers to cadets attending their first encampment as "basic cadets."

So when addressing them, we should say "Basic Cadet blah"  etc. 

Whats the big deal with adopting titles of address?? 

[Pylon]

And CAPP 52-15 specifically refers to cadets attending their first encampment as "basic cadets."

I would argue though that "basic cadet" is not an appropriate term to use to address a cadet in conversation.  We can refer to "cadet leaders" or "cadet staff members" or "cadet senior NCOs" when speaking in generalities about a group of cadets.  They are descriptive terms.

However, one would not turn around as use that language as a term of address.  You would not say "Cadet Staff Member Jones is over there" or "Cadet Senior NCO Smith come over here, please".  You would instead use the terms that CAPP 151 sets up:  "Airman Doe, Cadet Thomas and Sergeant Brown come here please" would not only make more sense, but also be correct.

Why make up terms that we don't need to?

As for the fact that the Air Force Academy may use or may have used the term doolie to refer to first year cadets is actually a good reason why we shouldn't refer to first year encampment attendees as such.

Whats the big deal with adopting titles of address?? 

We're training these new and impressionable cadets at encampment, right?  Why would be start teaching them terms that aren't correct, instead of setting the example of how they should address each other when not at encampment?  Set the proper example from the start and maybe you won't end up with weird traditions that units have to correct when cadets come home from encampment.

[CadetProgramGuy]

you are gaining nothing by calling them doolies or Basic Cadets.

Give them respect until they do somthing to mess that up.

Call them by their earned grade and rank.

As an Officer how would you like to be called a doolie if this is your first encampment? (even if you are a major)

[spaatzmom]

you are gaining nothing by calling them doolies or Basic Cadets.

Give them respect until they do somthing to mess that up.

Call them by their earned grade and rank.

As an Officer how would you like to be called a doolie if this is your first encampment? (even if you are a major)

Sir,

Your first 3 lines are very true.  Raise  your expectations of people and for the most part they will strive to meet them.  However on point 4 there is a big problem.  Unless this has been changed since 2007 when my son became a senior member, there will be no cadet officer doolies or basic cadets in attendance as they must go to an encampment in order to achieve their Mitchell and officer hood.  Of course this does not preclude any cadet officer from attending an out of wing encampment and requesting to be placed in a flight and treated the same as the other flight members, first timers included.

[DC]

you are gaining nothing by calling them doolies or Basic Cadets.

Give them respect until they do somthing to mess that up.

Call them by their earned grade and rank.

As an Officer how would you like to be called a doolie if this is your first encampment? (even if you are a major)

Sir,

Your first 3 lines are very true.  Raise  your expectations of people and for the most part they will strive to meet them.  However on point 4 there is a big problem.  Unless this has been changed since 2007 when my son became a senior member, there will be no cadet officer doolies or basic cadets in attendance as they must go to an encampment in order to achieve their Mitchell and officer hood.  Of course this does not preclude any cadet officer from attending an out of wing encampment and requesting to be placed in a flight and treated the same as the other flight members, first timers included.

Ma'am, he was referring to Senior Members, who we now must call 'Officers', not to be confused with Cadet Officers.

[Eclipse]

Ma'am, he was referring to Senior Members, who we now must call 'Officers', not to be confused with Cadet Officers.

Whether he was or not is irrelevant as this is not the case - the term for adults in the program is still "Senior Members".

This "officer member" nonsense was a "suggestion" by HWSRN and has never been adopted in any official capacity.  I again lift the mantle of challenge to anyone to show me any official document, online system, identification card, or regulation where this is the case. (an off-handed  mention in an otherwise unrelated memorandum doesn't count).

To the thread's point - "doolie" is a terminology in very limited use by one state's encampment and should be discontinued.  It has no place or application in CAP.

Cadets attending in the basic flights, whether they are 1st year or 4th year (yes, some cadets understand there is more to the encampment experience than a 1-year punch and come back as basics multiple years, or attend different encampments as basics) are referred to as "basics", for no other reason than quick reference, with no derogatory meaning behind it.

Any other cadets are..."cadets", with reference to their grade in the same respect as the rest of CAP - no particular authority.

Senior members are never "doolies", "basics", or anything else other than "Senior Members".

[Duke Dillio]

I normally just call cadets "Cadet" such and such.  Maybe it is just me but I didn't expect seniors to call me Lt. Col. blah blah WIWAC.  I was a cadet and whether I had more grade than a senior, I still expected them to call me cadet.  Just my .02 on the subject.

[MIKE]

Senior members etc are supposed to address cadets as cadet... Cadets however; are not.

[SSgt Rudin]

A little websearch turned up this:

http://dictionary.infoplease.com/doolie

Pronunciation: (dOO'lē), [key] —n. Slang. a first-year cadet in the U.S. Air Force Academy

And this:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/doolie

doolie (plural doolies) (US) A first year student at the United States Air Force Academy; a cadet freshman

None of which apply to a CAP cadet, anyway. CAP personnel need to get away from "adopting" military terminology that doesn't apply to us.

From the topic "Doolie Parents"

The term Doolie has been around CAP since the early 1950's. At my 1st encampment the term wasn't heard, and that was 1946. but at encampments in the 50's I attended as staff the term was in use. And I've heard it used at encampments at Tennessee, georgia, Alabama and Texas.

The USAF Academy was formed in 1954, so they need to stop "adopting" our terms that don't apply to them 

Spacing - MIKE

[DC]

Senior members etc are supposed to address cadets as cadet... Cadets however; are not.

So it is wrong for a cadet officer or NCO to call an Airman 'Cadet Soandso'?

What's wrong with that?

[MIKE]

See my cite in the initial post.

[RiverAux]

This "officer member" nonsense was a "suggestion" by HWSRN and has never been adopted in any official capacity.  I again lift the mantle of challenge to anyone to show me any official document, online system, identification card, or regulation where this is the case. (an off-handed  mention in an otherwise unrelated memorandum doesn't count).

Senior members are never "doolies", "basics", or anything else other than "Senior Members".

This is the closest I've seen to it in an actual regulation that I can remember, however I've got a nagging feeling that "officer" was used as the generic for senior member in another one, just can't think of it.  :
CAPM 39-1 uses this terminology:

1-3. Definition of Terms:
a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel

[Hawk200]

The USAF Academy was formed in 1954, so they need to stop "adopting" our terms that don't apply to them 

I'm betting that the Academy was the first to use it.

Second, there is not not one single official publication in Civil Air Patrol that uses the the term "doolie". If there is, someone can show it to everyone here.

Otherwise, it's adopting military terminology that makes CAP personnel look like wannabes. We've got enough problems with that already.

[CadetProgramGuy]

you are gaining nothing by calling them doolies or Basic Cadets.

Give them respect until they do somthing to mess that up.

Call them by their earned grade and rank.

As an Officer how would you like to be called a doolie if this is your first encampment? (even if you are a major)

Sir,

Your first 3 lines are very true.  Raise  your expectations of people and for the most part they will strive to meet them.  However on point 4 there is a big problem.  Unless this has been changed since 2007 when my son became a senior member, there will be no cadet officer doolies or basic cadets in attendance as they must go to an encampment in order to achieve their Mitchell and officer hood.  Of course this does not preclude any cadet officer from attending an out of wing encampment and requesting to be placed in a flight and treated the same as the other flight members, first timers included.

Ma'am, he was referring to Senior Members, who we now must call 'Officers', not to be confused with Cadet Officers.

Thanks, thats exactly what I meant.

Also let me clairfy, I also address cadets by their grade and rank as well.  I ask it of them to address me by my grade, I will address them by theirs.

[PHall]

The way we do it California Wing.

The Basic Cadets are addressed as Cadet or Cadet [insert name here].

The Basic Cadets are usually referred to as "Basics" when we are talking about them as a group.

Basic Cadets who happen to be Cadet NCO's are still addressed as Cadet.

Sergeant is reserved for the Flight Sergeant so that there is no confusion about who is who.

This is in no way an effort to force our methods and procedures on any other wing/unit.

Have a nice day.

[CadetProgramGuy]

The way we do it California Wing.

The Basic Cadets are addressed as Cadet or Cadet [insert name here].

The Basic Cadets are usually referred to as "Basics" when we are talking about them as a group.

Basic Cadets who happen to be Cadet NCO's are still addressed as Cadet.

Sergeant is reserved for the Flight Sergeant so that there is no confusion about who is who.

This is in no way an effort to force our methods and procedures on any other wing/unit.

Have a nice day.

Ok Officer

[Eclipse]

.
This is the closest I've seen to it in an actual regulation that I can remember, however I've got a nagging feeling that "officer" was used as the generic for senior member in another one, just can't think of it.  :
CAPM 39-1 uses this terminology:

1-3. Definition of Terms:
a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel

You won't find it anywhere.

The above is how it should be, refereing "officers" as "officers", not in the distinction between Senior Members and Cadet members.

Tags - MIKE