Is recruiting and retention really an issue?

[star1151]

I've visited a couple of units..and it seems that none of them are really interested in new members.  I had one flat out tell me that they didn't need or want another CFI, but I could join if I wanted.  That was really welcoming, and kind of strange, since I never mentioned wanting to fly.  These were all fairly large units, which I thought was interesting.  From what I've read here, CAP does have a problem recruiting and especially retaining people, so why am I seeing such huge squadrons and why am I getting this reaction?  Is it more of an issue in different parts of the country?
That might sound like a complaint to some of you...I promise it's not.  I'm just very curious, based on the difference between what I've read here and experienced in real life.

[SJFedor]

It can vary from unit to unit, person to person, commander to commander. I've always welcomed every prospective and new member with open arms. But, I'm sure there's some commanders out there who may be beyond the burnout point.

Come to TN and join one of the units in my group, the more CFIs and pilots, the better!

[Walkman]

If you were to decide to move to Utah, our squadron would be courting your pretty heavily. We have no pilots and 4 active seniors.

So far, recruiting seniors and cadet retention are our issues. We've got 24 cadets on the rolls, but the biggest turnout I've seen in the few months I've been around is maybe 10. Only 5 active SMs at the moment. That's my biggest push right now as PAO, getting our name out there so we can build the numbers up.

[MIKE]

As others have said, I think you have been spoiled.  Someone should show you around some of the units up here.  I don't know of any units who turn folks away because they have too many members, but recruiting new members and retaining the ones we do manage to recruit is still a major issue.

Where is the Retention Meter patch when you need it?

[Short Field]

I was told there is a 50% turnover rate in membership each year.  I am not sure if that was just Senior Members.  

We have a large number of members who have been in for a long time and lose a few each year to fairly normal factors like moving away, retiring, job changes, etc.   However, it seems we lose a lot of the new members.  They sign up all hot to get involved and then fizzle out over the course of a year or two and fail to renew.

We are trying to address the turnover in newbies in our unit by improving our mentor program and making an effort to get them involved in and qualified faster in ES (we are a senior squadron).  Of course, some people join expecting something we don't provide and quit when they realize it.  That is probably our fault as well for not making sure they understand what sort of organization we are to being with.  

Most organizations (volunteer, non-profit support association, fraternal, etc) seem to be having a harder time attracting and retaining members today.  There are too many competing activities for peoples' time (work, family, TV) anymore and less personal dedication to groups that don't provide immediate and continuing self gratification.  That is just a reflection of society as a whole.  

We (our unit) are constantly on the look-out for new members - and a CFI would be a big plus to us.  But even if you are not a CFI, we would love you anyway.  

[RiverAux]

Recruiting is always an issue with cadets since you "naturally" lose some as they get older and no matter how great our senior program is I don't think we will ever carry over very many directly into senior membership. 

CAP sometimes gets in a catch 22.  In a real large unit they may not actually need more people for some specialties, but those units are pretty few and far between.  However, in a small unit they often really need folks but may not have the infastructure to really get a new person trained up in a reasonable period of time. 

[SarDragon]

I was told there is a 50% turnover rate in membership each year.  I am not sure if that was just Senior Members.  

The last figures I saw were for all members. I'm going to my wing conference this weekend, so I might be able to bring back a fresh data set, unless someone posts one sooner.

[Grumpy]

See ya there Dave.

[ddelaney103]

Struth, this is a problem for CAP as a whole.

CAP has three missions, though they're more like the three suggestions than anything else. However, at the sqdn level, the mission is "administrivia." CAP PD is centered on running a sqdn/gp/wing but little on any operational mission area.

The lack of a mission that is pushed down to the unit means sqdn's don't have any guidance on manning levels, skill mixes, performance requirements, etc. - all the things most groups (military and EMS) have to shape their decisions.

[jimmydeanno]

You know, I wouldn't say that recruiting is the issue, but solely retention.  I see the problem as we promise the world to "new recruits" only to deliver a house next to a chem plant in NJ...(no offense to anyone who lives in NJ...)

So, what I like to do is not actively try to recruit people until my house is in order and I deliver on what I tell people we can do for them...

You shouldn't be discouraged that some of the larger units "didn't want you" because there are ~1600 other units that want/need your skills.  What is discouraging is that the squadron, instead of saying either:

a) "Operationally we don't need anothe CFI, but I know that the unit down the road really needs some help getting another CFI - let me call the squadron commander and get you two connected."

or

b) "This squadron would be a great place for you to start and get qualified, then we could transfer you to the squadron down the road..."

you got a

"We don't need you."

Without an offer of connecting you with another unit or just taking you in the first place.  Sometimes, we're our own worst enemy...

[star1151]

^

~1600 units yes, but let's not forget the unfortunate fact I can't pack up and move for CAP. :-) 

And let's not forget that just taking someone is what my unit did in the first place...then they acted like they didn't need me.  I'm not sure which is worse, retention-wise.

But after reading some other posts, I'm starting to think this is just a local thing...because I sure don't see the 50% turnover each year, either.

[ammotrucker]

I've visited a couple of units..and it seems that none of them are really interested in new members.  I had one flat out tell me that they didn't need or want another CFI, but I could join if I wanted.  That was really welcoming, and kind of strange, since I never mentioned wanting to fly.  These were all fairly large units, which I thought was interesting.

I don't find that hard to believe.  I am in a squadron which contains approx 100 members.  I felt when I started there that it would be to large a unit with most for the duties filled.  then I would not get to participate.

I was wrong.  Most of my members do not want to do much of anything.  Other then fly.  Asked if I was a pilot I said NO.  (laughing to myself).  I was then told well in a year or two you will be.  This has not happened simple because I choose not to let it happen.  I Feel the if that particular squadron did not think they needed you I personally would have look at a differant squadron who wanted you and your abilities.

[Fifinella]

CAP has lost 60,000 members in the last three years.  Our total membership runs about 65,000, which means a loss of approx. 1/3 of the total membership per year.  Retention is a SERIOUS issue in CAP.

Sorry for your negative reception.  I know of several great CAPpers who have not been received/treated well, that I would LOVE to have as members of my squadron.  (Unfortunately, they have paying jobs in other cities/states...)

If you feel CAP is the org for you, and you have something you'd like to contribute, I encourage you to find a squadron/group/wing that will work with you.  An old saying goes, "Illegitimus Non Carborundum" - Don't let the "illegitimate children" grind you down.  Find a unit that will be happy to work you to death , and do some good.

[wingnut]

If I had not been a former cadet and so turned on by Hyperspectral Imaging, i would have walked last year when I begged for 4 months to get an a cut class.

Retention is not the problem, it is active CAP members "RUNNING OFF" new members because they feel threatened, or they come to meetings to just drink coffee and interupt the meeting with war stories. frankly CAP is about 10% of the members doing 90% of the administrative duties and 25% of the pilots flying the missions.  Asking a married guy with three kids to pay $2,000 to fly missions and wait 6 months to get repaid is a way to get the wives against us and thus, someone has to give.(Rant, Rant)

I spend 3 times the hours monthly doing CAP activities as I ever did in the reserve, and at least there I got paid and retirement points.

But I will stay because I am a patriot and our country faces a real and present danger ( I also wear my captains bars on my Space ranger PJs)

[LittleIronPilot]

Wow....I am soooooo thankful for the leadership at my squadron.

Right now we have over 100 members, with a 40/60 Senior/Cadet split.

On average we get 15-20 seniors at meetings/exercises and well over 60% of the cadets at every meeting.

My sqdn commander, a former F16 driver, is HUGE into recruiting and retention. He said he would rather have one position three deep, if that is an area that someone really wants to be in, than force someone into a position they do not want to be in.

We have 6 mission pilots (even more Form 5'ers), 15 observers, and at least that many mission scanners...and the CO is constantly harping on betting MORE of everything. Also I have seen pilots turn down training missions, or flying assignments, so that other, less trained members can fly.

We want our aircraft in the air as much as possible, and between SAREX's, missions, CD, and other items, it pretty much stays in the air.

In addition our CO wants every senior to at least get GTM3, if they are willing, so that we can fulfill those needs once the aircrew slots are full-up on a mission.

star1151....all I cans say is to keep looking, there are good, no fantastic, units out there!

[star1151]

CAP has lost 60,000 members in the last three years.  Our total membership runs about 65,000, which means a loss of approx. 1/3 of the total membership per year.  Retention is a SERIOUS issue in CAP.

60,000 in THREE years?  How is that even possible?  I'd be really interested in knowing which wings are losing people, because it doesn't seem to be mine.

My sqdn commander, a former F16 driver, is HUGE into recruiting and retention. He said he would rather have one position three deep, if that is an area that someone really wants to be in, than force someone into a position they do not want to be in.

That's interesting....I don't see a problem with "forcing" someone into a position they don't want to be in...but don't you end up with everyone wanting to do the same thing?  I visited one unit with something like 5 ops officers and no one doing anything else.  So guess what they wanted me to do?  I'm relatively fine with that, but not if I can actually use my skills somewhere else.

We have 6 mission pilots (even more Form 5'ers), 15 observers, and at least that many mission scanners...and the CO is constantly harping on betting MORE of everything. Also I have seen pilots turn down training missions, or flying assignments, so that other, less trained members can fly.

Ok, that's something I don't think you'd see around here.  And why does he want more?  Doesn't there become a point in time where too many people is just too many people?[

Retention is not the problem, it is active CAP members "RUNNING OFF" new members because they feel threatened, or they come to meetings to just drink coffee and interupt the meeting with war stories.

I'll buy the running off thing.  What I don't understand is why others feel threatened.  I'm not around to take anyone's "job" and you'd think if people here think retention is an issue, members in general would.  I have run into quite a few time builders though, and that's something that's always frustrated me.

[LittleIronPilot]

That's interesting....I don't see a problem with "forcing" someone into a position they don't want to be in...but don't you end up with everyone wanting to do the same thing?  I visited one unit with something like 5 ops officers and no one doing anything else.  So guess what they wanted me to do?  I'm relatively fine with that, but not if I can actually use my skills somewhere else.

NOPE! You see since every sees they will not be forced into a job, but allowed some lattitude, we have actually had people pick up the slack when they see a position un-fulfilled precicely because they were NOT forced into it. We have almost every major position filled with assistants in almost every one.

Ok, that's something I don't think you'd see around here.  And why does he want more?  Doesn't there become a point in time where too many people is just too many people?

Never. Remember, that due to life there are times when people cannot answer the call. Thus by having such breadth and depth we are working to ensure someone from our squadron can at almost any time.

[Short Field]

Don't forget that when you end up running a major SAR like the Fosset search, you start running out of qualified people very fast - especially the ones that can work during the week.  The consider what happens to your manning when all the folks who took a week off of work have to go back to work after the first week.  Three plus deep, especially for ES positions is not unrealistic.

Asking people to take squadron jobs that they didn't consider is just good management.  You still need to find a good fit but you really don't need to have all the lawyers automatically become squadron legal officers.  I still think that since people volunteered in the first place, they are looking for something to do that takes some effort and actually helps the organization.   When they feel that the squadron really needs them, they tend to be more active and stay longer in "their" squadron.

[davedove]

Asking people to take squadron jobs that they didn't consider is just good management.  You still need to find a good fit but you really don't need to have all the lawyers automatically become squadron legal officers.

Also, some members may not want to do the same type of job that they do in their normal lives.  They may be volunteering to do something different for a break from that.

For the lawyer example, the person may not want to be a legal officer.  A good commander will find another opportunity for the member, and the commander still has access to the member's legal expertise as well.

[Major Carrales]

I operate on the idea that CAP works best when there are more folks.  To retain in simple...

1) Don't let people wallow in Inactivity

2) Don't railroad people into positions they are not ready for

3) add their personal goals and visions to that of the unit (with in the regs), thus, we get where we're going together.

4) Have a prepetual cycle of training, let new membership feel involved, let them advance as needed.  Then, let them have an hand in training new people.

5) Make everyone feel like they have worth.

6) take CAP more seriously...believe that what we are doing has inherent value, not a thing to be scorned.