Height and Weight Regulations

[JayT]

It seems around here that a lot of people are under the impression that the Air Force has imposed the heigh/weight and no fuzz regulations on us.

Can someone point to me an AFI or anything other then 39-1 that says this?

[SJFedor]

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

AFI 36-2903, Dress and Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel

Table 1.5 is what you're specifically looking for.

[RiverAux]

And the fact that the AF has control over any regulation relating to AF-style uniforms.  AFI 10-2701

2.1.2. Uniform Wear and Personal Appearance. CAP uses Air Force style uniforms for its membership
at the discretion and approval of the Air Force. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP or
Air Force style uniform in accordance with CAP regulations (civilian clothing may be worn when specific
missions dictate). The Air Force controls the configuration of the Air Force style uniform worn
by CAP members.
2.1.2.1. Grooming Standards. CAP maintains weight, appearance, and grooming standards
comparable to Air Force standards for its members that chose to wear the Air Force-styled uniform.
CAP ensures that any members wearing Air Force style uniforms adhere to these standards.
CAP senior members who do not meet these standards for wear of Air Force style uniforms are
restricted from wearing Air Force style uniforms but are not barred from membership or active
participation in CAP. In these circumstances the senior member may only wear authorized CAP
uniforms.

CAP can certainly propose different height-weight standards if they want.  Who knows if the AF would approve them.

[_]

CAP can certainly propose different height-weight standards if they want.  Who knows if the AF would approve them.

CAP already has different weight standards.  You can weigh up to 10% more than the Air Force standards and still wear the AF style uniform.

[JayT]

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

AFI 36-2903, Dress and Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel

Table 1.5 is what you're specifically looking for.

You'll note Captain, that the manual says 'of Air Force Personnel.'

I never joined the Air Force.

[SJFedor]

Yeah, but you did join it's official Auxiliary. Their uniform, their rules. You'll notice that the table that prescribes grooming standards for wear of the AF uniform in 39-1 is almost identical to the one in 36-2903.

Wear of the AF-style uniforms, as well as the insignia, badges, and devices worn on these uniforms are as prescribed by the Commander, CAP-USAF, with the approval of Headquarters USAF. See Tables 1-1 through 1-3 for information on wearing the uniform, dress and appearance, where to purchase uniform items, and grooming standards.

I would imagine that, when they (NHQ) were drafting 39-1, the Commander, CAP-USAF said "Ok, same grooming standards, +10% height/weight standards", HQUSAF concurred, and it was written into our regulation.

Why is it a topic of discussion, anyway? It's in our regulation, it's in line with the AFI, with the exception of the +10% rule, what's the issue?

[JayT]

It's not their uniform through, it's the Civil Air Patrols Inc. uniform.

My only beef is that I've been seeing quite a few posts lately to the effect of 'That stupid Air Force is trying to keep the fat/fuzzies down by there stupid weight/grooming regulations.'

I was always under the impression that the hieght/weight requirements were self imposed. The Air Force uniform manual doesn't say at any point "Civil Air Patrol Members must conform to our standards."

[RiverAux]

CAP can certainly propose different height-weight standards if they want.  Who knows if the AF would approve them.

CAP already has different weight standards.  You can weigh up to 10% more than the Air Force standards and still wear the AF style uniform.

Well, duh... I was talking about whether we wanted something different than what we had now. 

[IceNine]

It's not their uniform through, it's the Civil Air Patrols Inc. uniform.

No its not, its a version that the Air force allows us to wear.

CAP Inc. has direct control over any uniform we create (Polo combo, blazer, grey and white's etc.) but has virtually no control over anything that the airforce uses.  Its the rules and we live by them.  Its much the same as how we cannot promote our national commander to 4 stars because the air force says so.  The only way we can do away with the H/W Standards all together is to get rid of airforce uniforms so no more Sage Zoom Bags, no more Service Dress, no more BDU's. 

[mikeylikey]

^ The AF also has oversight on the corporate creations as well.  Remember the CHANGES to the TPU about a month later.  Big AF said, hmmm....no rank on the flight cap and no "US" on the lapels.  I would also make a guess that they hinted about what color the sleeve braid would be also.

[AlphaSigOU]

^ The AF also has oversight on the corporate creations as well.  Remember the CHANGES to the TPU about a month later.  Big AF said, hmmm....no rank on the flight cap and no "US" on the lapels.  I would also make a guess that they hinted about what color the sleeve braid would be also.

True. While in general USAF may be 'indifferent' about the TPU, betcha a box o' donuts certain powers-that-be in the RealAirForce® with stars on their shoulders may have had conniption fits. And remembering a general's wish is a lower-ranking member's command...

Now instead of gaudy silver braid, what about bringing back ultramarine blue sleeve braid, like they used to do with the old black and white mess dress?

[JayT]

What I'm asking is where is the regulation that says the Air Force controls our uniform?

[RiverAux]

I already provided you with the citation and quotes from within it. 

[pixelwonk]

Now instead of gaudy silver braid, what about bringing back ultramarine blue sleeve braid, like they used to do with the old black and white mess dress?

Gaudy is in the eye of the beholder.  IMO, ultramarine blue is cartoonish and just as if not more gaudier than silver for a dress uniform.

Must. Resist. Uniform. Threads...  KHAAAAAANNNNN!

[AlphaSigOU]

Now instead of gaudy silver braid, what about bringing back ultramarine blue sleeve braid, like they used to do with the old black and white mess dress?

Gaudy is in the eye of the beholder.  IMO, ultramarine blue is cartoonish and just as if not more gaudier than silver for a dress uniform.

Must. Resist. Uniform. Threads...  KHAAAAAANNNNN!

Do we have any other choice?