Service Cap Regulation Questions

[PhoenixRisen]

...even with Class C...

Uh, even if that term applied to CAP, isn't that in reference to a utility uniform?  A utility uniform + bus driver hat = major fail, no matter how you look at it.

[Hawk200]

...even with Class C...

Uh, even if that term applied to CAP, isn't that in reference to a utility uniform?  A utility uniform + bus driver hat = major fail, no matter how you look at it.

Kudos to Phoenix cadet. From AR 670-1, para 1-6.e, Classification of service and utility or field uniforms: "Class C uniforms are the utility, field, hospital duty, food service, and other organizational uniforms."

This is a problem with the local unit, too. People using terminology that they don't know, just deciding it's whatever they think it is. If you don't know, look it up. If it's not in a pub, don't use it.

(And the term "Class C" has not been used in an Air Force uniform pub in at least the last twenty years, so that doesn't fly either.)

[jimmydeanno]

Which is why I put mine in quotes.  At the time the local colloquialism was that the "class C" was blues without tie.

[lordmonar]

This is a problem with the local unit, too. People using terminology that they don't know, just deciding it's whatever they think it is. If you don't know, look it up. If it's not in a pub, don't use it.

BS!

Sorry....but really?  If the term does not "mean" anything.....and it is defined locally.....what do you or I care if the Homer J. Simpson squadorn uses "class c" to mean short sleeve blues with out tie or BDUs with pink tutu?

Where do you get off on saying that a local commander can't "make up" his own terminology?

This is just arrogance, plain and simple.

Now....as a lesson to everyone about using technical terms and jargon in their writing........here is an example where your "clearly defined" definition was not clearly defind to the rest of the world.......so be award of the pit falls of jargon.

[davidsinn]

Where do you get off on saying that a local commander can't "make up" his own terminology?

Because the stupidity has a way of spreading and confusing the crap out of everyone else. I just saw class C referenced in an email from my wing's DCP. I've thought about asking what the heck she means by it.

[lordmonar]

Where do you get off on saying that a local commander can't "make up" his own terminology?

Because the stupidity has a way of spreading and confusing the crap out of everyone else. I just saw class C referenced in an email from my wing's DCP. I've thought about asking what the heck she means by it.

Well that makes more sense then telling people "If you can't find it don't use it".

I agree that good communications needs to remove all the barriers that it can.   And of course all communicators need feed back....so if you get a "what the hell does he mean?" sort of message...by all means shoot him back a WFT OVER....REPEAT ALL AFTER....message.

[Hawk200]

This is a problem with the local unit, too. People using terminology that they don't know, just deciding it's whatever they think it is. If you don't know, look it up. If it's not in a pub, don't use it.

BS!

Sorry....but really?  If the term does not "mean" anything.....and it is defined locally.....what do you or I care if the Homer J. Simpson squadorn uses "class c" to mean short sleeve blues with out tie or BDUs with pink tutu?

Where do you get off on saying that a local commander can't "make up" his own terminology?

This is just arrogance, plain and simple.

Now....as a lesson to everyone about using technical terms and jargon in their writing........here is an example where your "clearly defined" definition was not clearly defind to the rest of the world.......so be award of the pit falls of jargon.

I didn't say that it was the commander now, did I? So what does that say about the art of assumption?

We have organization wide regulations for a reason with common policies, not a bunch of separate clubs with their own idea of doing things. And this cadet simply put out "class C's" on Tuesday. I never heard the term "class C" used while in the Air Force, so my only reference is Army.  As quoted above, "Class C" refers to utility uniforms.

There is also no local squadron supplement issued. Which means that it's not defined now, is it? I imagine you'd get annoyed if told to wear a "class" of uniform and you showed up wearing something different.

So, is it really BS? Is it really OK? Maybe in your world, not in mine. Common terms, not local terms. That's how we stay organized, uniformed, and one team. No misunderstandings.

The arrogance is on the part of people that think that they're special enough that they don't have follow what every one else does.

[RiverAux]

NB should either authorize for cadet officers or not. There is no logical reason to vary from wing to wing (or from one wing commander's tenure to the next).

Have to agree with ZigZag on this one.  Why would there need to be local variations for something like this? 

[Hawk200]

NB should either authorize for cadet officers or not. There is no logical reason to vary from wing to wing (or from one wing commander's tenure to the next).

Have to agree with ZigZag on this one.  Why would there need to be local variations for something like this?

I'll second that one. I never saw why it was up to the wing king in the first place. Designating a specific headgear is different than needing an authorization to wear it.

[MSG Mac]

Contact the Wing Director of Personnel ask if there is a Wing supplement to CAPM 39-1 authorizing the Service Cap. If not ask if can be implemented.

[AlphaSigOU]

Back in my days WIWAC (when the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth) my first squadron referred to service dress as 'Class As', the service uniform as '1550s' (this was before the Air Force redesigned the shirt) and utility uniforms as 'fatigues'.

[MajFitzpatrick]

Local Usage of terms is one thing, but if our uniforms are standardized (Which since we have a regulation, I believe they are) Standard usage of terms to describe these different combinations in uniforms should be used across the board. They teach is all over the place from the Tongue and Quill, to our FEMA courses, how important it is to have effective communication. If it has already been standardized and has a name, why re-invent the wheel with using "Class A" or "Class ZZ"? It might sound really anal, but if we can't effectively communicate with something as simple as a uniform, how do we expect to communicate complex thoughts and directives?

Oh and There are no Class whatever Dress in CAP. AF Style Uniforms -

Men's Service Dress Uniform
Men's Long-sleeve Shirt
Men's Short-sleeve Shirt
Men's Mess Dress Uniform
Men's Blue Semiformal Uniform
Women's Service Dress Uniform
Women's Long-sleeve Blouse
Women's Short-sleeve Blouse
Women's Mess Dress Uniform
Men's and Women's Battle Dress Uniforms

[lordmonar]

The new AFI 36-2903 uses Class A and CLass B as terms for the service dress and service uniforms. 

[Eclipse]

Oh and There are no Class whatever Dress in CAP. AF Style Uniforms -

The new AFI 36-2903 uses Class A and CLass B as terms for the service dress and service uniforms. 

Facts are the enemy of a good argument, avoid them at all costs.

[davidsinn]

The new AFI 36-2903 uses Class A and CLass B as terms for the service dress and service uniforms. 

True but those terms are not in our uniform manual. That said. I won't give anyone grief for using them as long as they use them in the same manner as 36-2903.

[BillB]

It's been my experience that the terms Class A,B,C,D uniforms never totally disappeared from USAF or CAP. It was a carry over from the Army Air Forces. If you said the Uniform of the Day was class A, almost everyone knew what you meant. The exceptions were new seniors and cadets.

[DakRadz]

It's been my experience that the terms Class A,B,C,D uniforms never totally disappeared from USAF or CAP. It was a carry over from the Army Air Forces. If you said the Uniform of the Day was class A, almost everyone knew what you meant. The exceptions were new seniors and cadets.

So basically, they knew it because some hanged on to it, and taught everyone when they were new? :angel:

[Grumpy]

Back in my days WIWAC (when the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth) my first squadron referred to service dress as 'Class As', the service uniform as '1550s' (this was before the Air Force redesigned the shirt) and utility uniforms as 'fatigues'.

What were the 1550's?  I remember 505's and 1505's.  But then again, I have never remembered the numbered combinations.

[MajFitzpatrick]

Very tricky with the newest CHANGE In 36-2903! good catch. (Still no Class C) But I have now been Ed-ja-ma-kated on Class A and Class B.

[AlphaSigOU]

Back in my days WIWAC (when the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth) my first squadron referred to service dress as 'Class As', the service uniform as '1550s' (this was before the Air Force redesigned the shirt) and utility uniforms as 'fatigues'.

What were the 1550's?  I remember 505's and 1505's.  But then again, I have never remembered the numbered combinations.

1550s were the light blue shirt without epaulets; grade was on the collar. When the current short and long sleeve shirts with epaulets were introduced, only the shade number (1550) carried over.