My BBDU experiment: after two years, I be done with this nonsense

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

^ Nice! But before, make sure you fill out a Hurt Feelings Report... 

Can I do it in eServices?

Paper only, CAPF-30wah.

[Luis R. Ramos]

With all these variations that some members are presenting on the use of scales, maybe the powers-that-be read NHQ saw these issues coming and wisely decided not to to weigh members. Plus some other stuff...   

Flyer

[Майор Хаткевич]

With all these variations that some members are presenting on the use of scales, maybe the powers-that-be read NHQ saw these issues coming and wisely decided not to to weigh members. Plus some other stuff...   

Flyer

Most likely. Probably similar arguments were put up by PAWGs and thus the ranger uniforms...

[Shuman 14]

The thing is... I don't see any issues with the USCGAux's uniforms, our standard is fair, reasonable, professional and enforced.

If you mean the Army... that's a different story. Congress may fix the field/cammo uniform for all of us, dress/service is up in the air.

We are not the USCGAux we are the USAF Aux different organizations different missions, and there is nothing wrong with what we have in place outside of those who do not have the integrity to abide by the rules and the lack of enforcement.  It's simple and the big thing is is that no one wants to be the bad guy and have that conversation.

That's a straw man argument. Doesn't matter that we have different missions, that is not the heart of the matter.

The heart is uniformity and professionalism.

If the USCGAux conducts a mission, we are told this is the uniform to wear, regardless if you are manning an EOC during a State emergency or conducting a safety patrol. We show up in the proper uniform or we go home.

Conversely, if CAP shows up, chances are there will be multiple uniforms.

So if both the USCGAux and the CAP are conducting a support to local authority mission and assisting in manning a state/county EOC during a disaster:

The USCGAux members will all show up in one uniform, ODUs with member devices. Anyone doing anything else like wearing office insignia or local ball caps or wearing an examiners uniform (the USCGAux's polo uniform) would be sent home.

The CAP will show up with members in BDUs, BBDUs, polos, and maybe even some in USAF-style service uniform and/or grey/white Corporate.

Both formations are "correct" by their own, and their parent Service's, rules... but which one looks "right"? The "right" look is perception of the organization at a glance. Perception and uniformity is everything.

All I'm saying and suggesting is... that if CAP had only one Corporate Dress/Service Uniform (my Khaki suggestion), one Corporate Field Uniform (BBDU), one Corporate Flying Uniform (Blue flightsuit), and one "light duty" uniform (ie polo) you would not have the perception problem. The commander or coordinator of whatever mission you are conducting that day will say which uniform is authorized and any member who shows up in something else gets sent home.

No need to be mean, call someone fat, tell them they need a shave and/or a haircut... just say you're in the wrong uniform. Go home and change and come back or just go home.

Right now, because of the plethora of uniforms CAP has you can't do that.

Adoption of one Corporate Uniform for each type of mission solves the problem.

If you could get the USAF to sign off on the USAF-style Service uniform and the BDUs (maybe ABUs shortly) for all CAP members that would fix this issue too... but they seem unwilling to do that.

So your options will continue to be a "chimera" in uniform or adopt a single Corporate uniform. 

[Ned]

Conversely, if CAP shows up, chances are there will be multiple uniforms.

[ . . .]

The CAP will show up with members in BDUs, BBDUs, polos, and maybe even some in USAF-style service uniform and/or grey/white Corporate.

Both formations are "correct" by their own, and their parent Service's, rules... but which one looks "right"? The "right" look is perception of the organization at a glance. Perception and uniformity is everything.

So?

I have been a police officer serving in an EOC of a major city.  I happened to be in the standard patrol uniform (LAPD blue wool shirt, trousers, duty belt), other cops from my agency were there in duty coveralls (like a flight suit), and the "captain and above crowd" were there in suits and ties.

No one seemed to have much trouble figuring out who we worked for or what our jobs were.  (Although our jobs were written on our ICS vests. That probably helped.)

Similarly, it is not uncommon for CAP members to wear different uniforms depending on the circumstances.  Any yet no one really has any trouble figuring out who we are.

This ties back to my request for any hard facts that having multiple uniforms has negatively affected any of our missions in a measurable way.  Your observation - which is undoubtedly true - that CG Aux types will tend to be more uniform in appearance while working in an EOC just does not seem to be very compelling when it comes to the Eternal CAP Uniform Debate. 

Because, once again, comes down to what individuals think looks "better," "more professional." or is more respectful to our diverse membership.  And we will never, ever, have consensus on this, simply because of human nature and differing reasonable points of view.

("It's just the other guy that is being unreasonable.")

[RiverAux]

The USCGAux members will all show up in one uniform, ODUs with member devices. Anyone doing anything else like wearing office insignia or local ball caps or wearing an examiners uniform (the USCGAux's polo uniform) would be sent home.

Actually not.  There are no restriction on what devices to wear when working with other agencies.  And actually due to very recent regulation changes, Auxies can wear office devices when augmenting any CG activity except onboard ship.  (Though if the local commander preferred they wear member devices only, that would be their choice). 

[38ffems]

I work in a State EOC.  We get people in everything from street clothes (not preferred) to suits and ties.  It's becoming much more standard however that people wear a polo/tac pant option.  FEMA's IMATs love the 5.11 stuff.  Military wears their field uniform.  I guess it's more important that National CAP or the wing identify where you wear what uniforms.  EOC's could be polo and grey pants.  ICP or field, BDU or BBDU.  Meetings could be polo combo or short sleeve AF style. 

[Shuman 14]

Conversely, if CAP shows up, chances are there will be multiple uniforms.

[ . . .]

The CAP will show up with members in BDUs, BBDUs, polos, and maybe even some in USAF-style service uniform and/or grey/white Corporate.

Both formations are "correct" by their own, and their parent Service's, rules... but which one looks "right"? The "right" look is perception of the organization at a glance. Perception and uniformity is everything.

So?

I have been a police officer serving in an EOC of a major city.  I happened to be in the standard patrol uniform (LAPD blue wool shirt, trousers, duty belt), other cops from my agency were there in duty coveralls (like a flight suit), and the "captain and above crowd" were there in suits and ties.

No one seemed to have much trouble figuring out who we worked for or what our jobs were.  (Although our jobs were written on our ICS vests. That probably helped.)

Similarly, it is not uncommon for CAP members to wear different uniforms depending on the circumstances.  Any yet no one really has any trouble figuring out who we are.

This ties back to my request for any hard facts that having multiple uniforms has negatively affected any of our missions in a measurable way.  Your observation - which is undoubtedly true - that CG Aux types will tend to be more uniform in appearance while working in an EOC just does not seem to be very compelling when it comes to the Eternal CAP Uniform Debate. 

Because, once again, comes down to what individuals think looks "better," "more professional." or is more respectful to our diverse membership.  And we will never, ever, have consensus on this, simply because of human nature and differing reasonable points of view.

("It's just the other guy that is being unreasonable.")

I picked the EOC mission as it is one that I know both Auxiliaries do... so no one can use the "we have different missions" straw man argument.

But if "so" is your question and response, then maybe CAP should do away with all uniforms and just issue a t-shirt in Air Force blue with "CAP" in white lettering on the front.

Blue jeans could be the working trousers and and grey dockers will make it your formal uniform. 

[Shuman 14]

The USCGAux members will all show up in one uniform, ODUs with member devices. Anyone doing anything else like wearing office insignia or local ball caps or wearing an examiners uniform (the USCGAux's polo uniform) would be sent home.

Actually not.  There are no restriction on what devices to wear when working with other agencies.  And actually due to very recent regulation changes, Auxies can wear office devices when augmenting any CG activity except onboard ship.  (Though if the local commander preferred they wear member devices only, that would be their choice).

True... revising my statement to "augment the USCG at a state/county EOC"... feel better? 

[PHall]

So shuman14, why the intense interest in the uniforms of an organization you're not even a member of?

Because you've gone way past the idle curiosity stage.

[abdsp51]

It's typical Army mentality of fixing something they deem is broken because they have all the answers.  Its the same approach they take to training sister services as well. 

[Critical AOA]

It's typical Army mentality of fixing something they deem is broken because they have all the answers.  Its the same approach they take to training sister services as well.

That is typical mentality of any government entity. 

[Shuman 14]

So shuman14, why the intense interest in the uniforms of an organization you're not even a member of?

Because you've gone way past the idle curiosity stage.

Well I enjoy the debate, which I'm in the middle of here. Plus it helps keep me awake on Mids.

Gate duty (I work as a Police Officer for the VA) can be long and slow so a lively debate keeps me awake.

[Shuman 14]

It's typical Army mentality of fixing something they deem is broken because they have all the answers.  Its the same approach they take to training sister services as well.

Personal attacks on my Service... that's delightful.

Do I have all the answers... no.

Have I offered a reasonable solution to a problem that others on this forum have brought up... yes.

Sorry you seem to have a problem with that.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Reminds me of Major Pita...

Flyer

[PHall]

So shuman14, why the intense interest in the uniforms of an organization you're not even a member of?

Because you've gone way past the idle curiosity stage.

Well I enjoy the debate, which I'm in the middle of here. Plus it helps keep me awake on Mids.

Gate duty (I work as a Police Officer for the VA) can be long and slow so a lively debate keeps me awake.

So you're on CAPTalk while you're on duty?  Isn't that against the rules?  So much for the integrity arguement!

[abdsp51]

It's typical Army mentality of fixing something they deem is broken because they have all the answers.  Its the same approach they take to training sister services as well.

Personal attacks on my Service... that's delightful.

Do I have all the answers... no.

Have I offered a reasonable solution to a problem that others on this forum have brought up... yes.

Sorry you seem to have a problem with that.

No the issue I have is that you seem to think it is ok to come here and basically say we are broke and tell us how to fix it.  And if you would like a personal attack on your service I could certainly do that.  That statement is based on fact and experience sorry if the truth strikes a nerve with you. 

You want to fix our uniform issues, become a member complete what is needed and get appointed to the the NUC or run your ideas up through the appropriate channels.  Until then stay in your lane and fix the issues within your own organizations.

[Shuman 14]

So shuman14, why the intense interest in the uniforms of an organization you're not even a member of?

Because you've gone way past the idle curiosity stage.

Well I enjoy the debate, which I'm in the middle of here. Plus it helps keep me awake on Mids.

Gate duty (I work as a Police Officer for the VA) can be long and slow so a lively debate keeps me awake.

So you're on CAPTalk while you're on duty?  Isn't that against the rules?  So much for the integrity arguement!

Nope, we're authorized to use computers, cell phones, etc. as long as it doesn't interfere with gate operations... which after 6pm is about one car an hour coming in.

[Shuman 14]

It's typical Army mentality of fixing something they deem is broken because they have all the answers.  Its the same approach they take to training sister services as well.

Personal attacks on my Service... that's delightful.

Do I have all the answers... no.

Have I offered a reasonable solution to a problem that others on this forum have brought up... yes.

Sorry you seem to have a problem with that.

No the issue I have is that you seem to think it is ok to come here and basically say we are broke and tell us how to fix it.  And if you would like a personal attack on your service I could certainly do that.  That statement is based on fact and experience sorry if the truth strikes a nerve with you. 

You want to fix our uniform issues, become a member complete what is needed and get appointed to the the NUC or run your ideas up through the appropriate channels.  Until then stay in your lane and fix the issues within your own organizations.

Your own members say CAP is broke as far as uniforms go, I never did, I simply offered a reasonable solution for discussion... on an open source discussion board. Then get attacked for it.

Why are you so opposed to any suggestion I make? 

BTW, I was also told that members of the NUC view CAPTalk regularly, this is my unofficial way of getting my ideas to NUC for review. That or maybe someone in CAP can take my ideas and run it up your flagpole for review.

BTW, if you have issues with my posts here, please feel free to address them to the moderators, I've broken no terms of service or user agreements that I can see, if I have I will correct myself.

If you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.

[abdsp51]

The quote issues are not really issues at all.  It's broken down to really different POV

1) Polo only crowd
2) Corp only crowd
3) AF Style only crowd
4) Mix

The main issue is that members who are unable to wear the AF style for what ever reason doing so and no one saying "Hey your in the wrong."  The corp only crowd who some feel that wearing the AF style is trying to be a wanna be and that only cadets should wear the AF style. 

BLUF the main uniform issues is the lack of integrity among members who willfully go against the standard and those who do not want to enforce said standard.

Again if you feel so strongly about fixing our perceived uniform issue submit your app, pay your dues and run your ideas up the chain.  The NUC is here for members to present ideas and help with establishing our uniform policy.  Not for a non-member to do so, and you have yet to really achieve any type of buy in for your idea.  Again join and run your stuff up or as you folks in the Army say "Stay in your lane." You do not see us telling the VA admin how your uniform should look or a CAP member telling the Army Chief of Staff what the Army should be wearing.  You want your ideas submitted do it right man up, join up or "stay in your lane" and fix your own organizations issues.