My BBDU experiment: after two years, I be done with this nonsense

[Shuman 14]

Put it this way.

I am not a military policeman, never even have been in Law Enforcement. Have studied their methods and have been close to some LE types and we have talked. A lot.

With that in mind, if I walk to you and state "Why did you arrest that person? There was no reason to arrest that person, just watching him/her would have been enough." Or "there was no probable cause."

What is your reaction?



Flyer

Depends, on the street, while I'm in the middle of the arrest... the reaction will be "frosty" to say the least.

Here on a discussion board, or in an after action review at the station or in a bar after duty hours, an open and frank discussion can and does have its merits.

The "no stupid question" rule does apply... both in police work and CAPTALK. 

[Shuman 14]

If the USAF was to change it's uniform tomorrow, it would effect CAP's USAF-style uniform immediately.

This is what I'm talking about. Not at all how CAP operates.

OK, how does it operate?

The USAF is in Blue... CAP is not still in Khaki.

The USAF is in a three button blue blouse with epaulets for officers... so is CAP.

I know there was a wear out date when khaki and the four patch pocket blouses went away in the USAF and an adoption by CAP.

So what am I not getting?

The Air Force gets a new uniform, they decide CAP can where it too (or not, ie ABUs), they publish a regulation, there's a wear out date on the old uniform, then the new one is adopted.

Some people will be in the new one the next day, some will wear the old one until the very last minute.

So what am I not getting? 

[SarDragon]

CAP is not broken by any means... you do great work and I admire that.

So if I send my fifty dollar check in... my opinion will matter? 

OK please explain how any other uniform purchase is "cost effective" but khaki is not?

If, and this is a big if, there is a source available for the type and style of uniform we want, it's not a big deal. If this new manufacture, all bets are off regarding cost. There is that "economy of scale" issue I mentioned earlier.

So if khaki was adopted, Seniors could donate their Blues to the cadets, cost effective and tax deductible.

Well, not quite. SMs are adults, in adult sizes. Cadets typically range from XXS to L, and most adult size uniforms fit like tents.

[Eclipse]

So if I send my fifty dollar check in... my opinion will matter? 

If you join, become involved, wear our uniform, you will understand the totality of the situation as more then a bystander,
and then your opinion will be relevent.

You've got the check and at least a year before that.

[Shuman 14]

CAP is not broken by any means... you do great work and I admire that.

So if I send my fifty dollar check in... my opinion will matter? 

OK please explain how any other uniform purchase is "cost effective" but khaki is not?

If, and this is a big if, there is a source available for the type and style of uniform we want, it's not a big deal. If this new manufacture, all bets are off regarding cost. There is that "economy of scale" issue I mentioned earlier.

So if khaki was adopted, Seniors could donate their Blues to the cadets, cost effective and tax deductible.

Well, not quite. SMs are adults, in adult sizes. Cadets typically range from XXS to L, and most adult size uniforms fit like tents.

Dave,

I did a quick Google search using "silver tan khaki police uniform jackets" and came up with many items (shirts, trousers, coats, jackets, etc.) that are pretty close to what I envision as a modern version of the old khaki uniform.

Minor alterations to off the shelf products would be required... but if adopted by a very large national organization, like CAP... would make whichever uniform producer a decent profit to modify their existing specs to a CAP standard, so it would be a little more pricey than going to the Exchange and buying an Air Force uniform off the rack but no more pricey than ordering the previously authorized Blue Corporate uniform from a CAP authorized supplier.

Its the other stuff: all weather coats, windbreakers, sweaters, etc, that will be pricey. If the USAF doesn't sign off on their  Blue all weather coat, and etc being worn with Khaki Corporate uniforms, then there could be major cost issues.

And I see your point about adult vs kids uniforms.

[Shuman 14]

So if I send my fifty dollar check in... my opinion will matter? 

If you join, become involved, wear our uniform, you will understand the totality of the situation as more then a bystander,
and then your opinion will be relevent.

You've got the check and at least a year before that.

Ah yes my other favorite "usual suspect"... Grandfather Sunshine and his "rain" of happiness.

Good evening to you Sir, and how are you on this fine day? 

[Private Investigator]

If anybody is interested I am having a fine day.   

[Luis R. Ramos]

It happened! Someone derailed the thread. Wohoo!

All non-uniform threads degenerate into uniform threads, while uniform threads degenerate into something else!

[edited to clarify message!]

And good morning to you as well, de-railer...

Flyer

[Private Investigator]

Exactly   

[Shuman 14]

If anybody is interested I am having a fine day.   

Good morning to you! Glad you are having a fine day!

So PI, what are your thoughts on a khaki Corporate uniform or the elimination of the Woodland BDUs and making BBDUs the sole Field uniform of CAP?

(Just trying to get us back on track.  )

[38ffems]

As someone getting back into cap after a long time doing fire and ems (burned out) and working in state emergency management, I chose the bbdu combo.  Military enough to show connection to USAF but non military enough to fit in with the agencies CAP works with.  I also picked up the polo/grey tactical pants combo for working in the state EOC or training with nonmilitary.  I have a flight suit in sage for aircrew stuff.  I am well within regulations and typically rocking a government style haircut but just can't bring myself to wear bdu.

[abdsp51]

Man, I don't think your gonna get much support for a Khaki uniform man.  We can not move forward by taking steps back.

[Shuman 14]

Man, I don't think your gonna get much support for a Khaki uniform man.  We can not move forward by taking steps back.

OK, then what do you suggest?

Another Blue Corporate Service Uniform? An all Grey one? LAPD Blue (IE Black)?

Stay status quo?

How do you see CAP moving forward?

[abdsp51]

Man, I don't think your gonna get much support for a Khaki uniform man.  We can not move forward by taking steps back.

OK, then what do you suggest?

Another Blue Corporate Service Uniform? An all Grey one? LAPD Blue (IE Black)?

Stay status quo?

How do you see CAP moving forward?

We move forward with enforcement of the standard.  Personally there is nothing wrong with what is in place now it's the lack of enforcement that is an issue.  We have options to accommodate everyone who wants to be a member of the organization, and again I think you need to focus on fixing issues within your own organization than here.

[SarDragon]

I see CAP moving forward by:

1. publishing an up-to-date uniform manual with unambiguous language and clear intent.

2. enforcing the rules we already have, and not making "nice guy" exceptions.

3. pushing members to inform their fellow members when they see uniform violations.

Those actions, all by themselves, will eliminated much of the angst over uniforms.

Over the years, I've worn about a dozen different flavors of CAP uniform, and they all accomplished the same thing - give us a consistent appearance. It was easier before the introduction of of the corporate uniforms beyond the blazer, but doing the three things I listed will solve many of those issues. The biggest problem I see with uniforms in general isn't what we wear, it's how we wear it.

[He types faster than I do.  ]

[tribalelder]

I see CAP moving forward by:

1. publishing an up-to-date uniform manual with unambiguous language and clear intent.

2. enforcing the rules we already have, and not making "nice guy" exceptions.

3. pushing members to inform their fellow members when they see uniform violations.

Those actions, all by themselves, will eliminated much of the angst over uniforms.

Over the years, I've worn about a dozen different flavors of CAP uniform, and they all accomplished the same thing - give us a consistent appearance. It was easier before the introduction of of the corporate uniforms beyond the blazer, but doing the three things I listed will solve many of those issues. The biggest problem I see with uniforms in general isn't what we wear, it's how we wear it.

[He types faster than I do.  ]

As SarDragon observes, his suggestions 1-3 would do a lot..

Since we all go to safety briefings monthly, how about a weighin annually.

And it was simpler with fewer uniform choices-especially when undertall or fuzzy members wore fatigues and flightsuits w/o grade.

[Eclipse]

Since we all go to safety briefings monthly, how about a weighin annually.

Seriously, why aren't we doing this?

It could be like any other task or online certification, etc.

Annual weigh-in by 30 Jan, miss it and you go dark just like safety.

If yo opt-out, you wear corporate-only until you opt-in.

Members can request a new weigh-in any time they like during the year.

This costs the organization nothing except possible attrition by members who believe some of our rules are "optional", which
is fine by me.

And fixes a significant and visible problem.

I've argued all along that if many of our leadership and influence were suddenly forced to wear corporate combos, things would change quickly.

[SarDragon]

There is the matter of a calibrated scale. Discuss.

[Eclipse]

There is the matter of a calibrated scale. Discuss.

Someone brings it from home, anyone raising an issue about "calibration" gets an atomic wedgie.

That or a Dr's note with the weight annotated.

We're not talking about a NASA launch, we're talking uniform wear.  We could even do +/- 5 pounds
if there's a concern.

[Storm Chaser]

Seriously, why aren't we doing this?

Because it would offend or hurt someone's feelings.