Seniors at an NCSA

trekkindave · August 07, 2007, 07:47:10 PM

I was looking for some input from the Former cadet, forced to go senior, who have attended National Special Activities as Seniors (or cadets) who can recomend a good activity for a Former cadet Major, now 1Lt, to try next summer.. I have always wanted to do IACE, PJOC, NESA, or Blue Beret... do these activities have space for seniors, and would i be put to work in a useful way. Could I participate in the same type activities as cadets?? Anyone with input would be helpful.. Thanks all

IceNine · August 07, 2007, 07:58:21 PM

IACE Yes but only after you turn 25 and then you will be an escort.

PJOC typically not but, all you can do is ask the Project Officer

NESA Absolutely, you can attend any of the courses they offer as a senior

jimmydeanno · August 07, 2007, 08:07:02 PM

Well, no matter what you do, the experience is not the same as a senior...

WIWAC, I attended COS and a few others, and had a ball. Since I turned senior, I staffed E-Tech at Auburn once and also had a ball, I also staffed NCC last year. The experience is totaly different but is still rewarding.

If you're trying to get the "PJOC" experience as a senior, it probably won't happen. I think that you will find that many of the NCSAs are rather incestuous and it's hard to get your foot in the door as "the new guy."

The activity directors typically "hire" people they know within their wing or region and that they've known for a while, so finding an 'entry level spot' at some random NCSA at the last minute is sometimes feasable...

Good luck with it though...

trekkindave · August 07, 2007, 08:20:27 PM

What about NBB?? Are seniors just cadet sitters, or do they do their fare share of work? I know NYWG encampments use seniors as mentors in all positions, including a TAC officer as a mentor for the flight staff, and a kinda "deputy" safety officer?

I figured PJOC wasn't senior oriented.

What about Hawk? Ive heard of senior flights, er teams.....

And IACE... anyone done it as a senior escort? I hosted Swedish cadets in the late 90's.... it was a blast... .wonder how it is on the other end

Briski · August 08, 2007, 12:46:49 AM

Quote from: trekkindave on August 07, 2007, 08:20:27 PMAnd IACE... anyone done it as a senior escort? I hosted Swedish cadets in the late 90's.... it was a blast... .wonder how it is on the other end

I haven't gone as an escort, but I went as a cadet.

The escorts are pretty much just there to make sure the cadets don't embarrass the US or CAP, in theory. Oh, and to make sure that nobody gets lost in some foreign airport and that we have adult supervision if a flight gets delayed and we need to contact the IACE people in the host country and the US. Some are better in this role than others, but this is primarily a personality thing.

Our escorts (we had one from the US and one from the UK, plus our hosts from the country we were visiting) did everything we did, plus some extra stuff. We always stayed in hotels, dorms or barracks, but the escorts were given the opportunity to visit the home of one of our hosts, so they actually got some extra cool stuff we didn't in this case.

Overall, from what I saw, IACE is a great activity for SMs to attend if they want to actually do stuff, instead of just sitting back and watching the cadets have all the fun.

But, as previously mentioned, escorts have to be 25 years of age and, if I recall correctly, must have a Masters Rating in CP. Which kinda makes sense, as they're representing the adult supervision of our CP to other air cadet programs from around the world.

LtCol White · August 08, 2007, 12:53:35 AM

Quote from: trekkindave on August 07, 2007, 08:20:27 PM
What about NBB?? Are seniors just cadet sitters, or do they do their fare share of work? I know NYWG encampments use seniors as mentors in all positions, including a TAC officer as a mentor for the flight staff, and a kinda "deputy" safety officer?

I figured PJOC wasn't senior oriented.

What about Hawk? Ive heard of senior flights, er teams.....

And IACE... anyone done it as a senior escort? I hosted Swedish cadets in the late 90's.... it was a blast... .wonder how it is on the other end

I was the escort to Sweden in 1992. It was a great experience. As a result of it I moved and lived in stockholm for 2 yrs after that and worked with the Swedish IACE program and Swedish Air Cadets. As an escort you do all the same things the cadets do and they usually have some special activities for the escorts in the host countries. When you turn 25, I would highly recommend applying

Ned · August 08, 2007, 01:45:28 AM

As a pratical matter, probably the most fun to be had as a senior is to work as a TAC at an encampment.

Serious mentoring for the cadet flight staff, as well as all (or at least most) of the goodies that the cadets get -- firing range, o-flights, confidence courses, etc.

It will surely mean long (as in 16-22 hour) days, but I have done it over 20 times and enjoyed each one.

Most wings will take out of state seniors, so you can apply to go to a place you've always wanted to go, like Hawaii. (Imagine a deductible vacation!)

IACE is also terrific, but they are pretty selective and their are often a lot of folks ahead of you in the line.

I have also staffed COS and CLA as a seminar leader and instructor, and they were both fantastic. I know COS is always looking for new blood to work as a seminar leader.

Briski · August 08, 2007, 01:48:08 AM

Quote from: Ned on August 08, 2007, 01:45:28 AMI know COS is always looking for new blood to work as a seminar leader.

As an aside, this is one of my personal dreams as a CP officer. Yes. Now to see if the Army will ever allow me to realize this dream.

SarDragon · August 08, 2007, 02:08:30 AM

Quote from: Briski on August 08, 2007, 01:48:08 AM
Quote from: Ned on August 08, 2007, 01:45:28 AMI know COS is always looking for new blood to work as a seminar leader.

As an aside, this is one of my personal dreams as a CP officer. Yes. Now to see if the Army will ever allow me to realize this dream.

They give you 30 days leave every year.

mdickinson · August 08, 2007, 02:20:18 AM

Quote from: trekkindave on August 07, 2007, 08:20:27 PM
What about NBB?? Are seniors just cadet sitters, or do they do their fare share of work?

I attended NBB in '99 as a senior. At that time (and I assume today) there were three different types of senior positions at NBB.

1. TAC officer. This senior shadows a flight all week, acting as a mentor to the flight commander and keeping an eye on all the cadets to be sure they are safe (not dehydrated, not sunburned, etc.) and having a good time. I did this and enjoyed the interaction with the cadets.

2. ES staff. There are several seniors doing ES duty (tracking down the dozens of ELTs that go off at Oshkosh).

3. Command/administrative staff. The folks run the show and those who are in the Blue Beret Office making everything happen behind the scenes (logistics, finance, safety, admin, etc.).

Quote from: trekkindave on August 07, 2007, 08:20:27 PM
I know NYWG encampments use seniors as mentors in all positions, including a TAC officer as a mentor for the flight staff, and a kinda "deputy" safety officer?

I just finished my second NY WG encampment. There is a TAC officer as mentor to each flight's staff, a mentor in each of the "exec staff" positions (PAO, Training, Stan/Eval, Logistics, Admin, Flight Ops, etc.), and a senior command staff, who mentor the cadet command staff. There is also a group of seniors known as "senior support staff" who do the many miscellaneous tasks required to make the encampment first rate.

There is not, however, any cadet safety officer. The encampment has one safety officer and it is a senior.

Personally, I would recommend encampments, NESA, NBB, and any NCSAs as fun activities for seniors. And IACE would be the ultimate experience - go for it, but don't feel bad if you aren't accepted. I applied 3 times and never made it beyond "alternate escort." I think part of it may have been with my lack of a specialty track rating in Cadet Programs.

IceNine · August 08, 2007, 03:54:48 AM

your best options if you are recently turned senior, and still want the warm a fuzzies of doing (as I did) are

NBB, NESA, Hawk, IACE, and thats about it.

If you want to feel as if your opinion matters on a large scheme you will need to get into the "dark" mentality. Trust me its not as bad as it seems. You should start off as an assistant Tac or some other non-invasive position at wing encampment, It is much more difficult to distance yourself from running a flight, to the new found position of Teacher, Adviser, and Counselor (TAC). You will find that you are biting your tongue because "I can do that better". So I would highly recommend that you go to activities where you duties do not directly include cadet supervision at least for a year or 2. You will appreciate it in the future.

trekkindave · August 08, 2007, 06:05:22 AM

I did not mean to imply that there was a cadet safety officer at the NY wing encampments.... just that the Tacs sometimes act a the eyes and ears of the safety officer....

I think i will start to work on my CP rating now then so I can apply for IACE next year then.

I havent found that the "dark" positions where that bad. Last year I spent two encampments in such roles and it was pretty fun. I did the PAO mentor for NY 06 (my staff was great... and we turned out a great yearbook and collage for the commander, not to mention the organization that my Cadet OIC had with files....) and I worked as a TAC officer for CTwg in 2006... Tac is a great position.. especialy since i was such a long time cadet.. its worth being able to pass some wisdom down to the cadets of now days...

The possibilites are starting to mount up.. CAP senior member after long time cadet really isnt that bad....

AlphaSigOU · August 08, 2007, 11:11:49 AM

Quote from: Briski on August 08, 2007, 12:46:49 AMBut, as previously mentioned, escorts have to be 25 years of age and, if I recall correctly, must have a Masters Rating in CP. Which kinda makes sense, as they're representing the adult supervision of our CP to other air cadet programs from around the world.

Gotta be at least 25 and have a minimum Senior rating in CP to be considered an IACE escort. I'm seriously considering going to IACE as an escort (I never did as a cadink), but I've gotta finish my year as Worthy Patron of my Eastern Star chapter.

Becks · August 08, 2007, 03:23:15 PM

At NBB if you're a TAC you work right with your flight, so you end up being more than just a "cadet sitter".

SJFedor · August 14, 2007, 06:21:17 AM

NESA was a jolly good time, especially mission aircrew school, because it's really a "senior" school, although there are some 18+ cadets that do join the fun, and they're always mature and high speed enough to get into the fun.

ladyreferee · August 14, 2007, 02:50:57 PM

I second the comment about the 18+ cadets attending who are mature and high speed. I attended the Ground Team Leader's course and we had a few cadets and even one flight officer. Everyone who attended as an adult wanted to get as much out of the experience as possible. Our groups clicked, whether in the large group or the small teams. You don't get the childish 'I can't get along with so and so because....'. Because we worked so hard, I didn't feel like 'the stuffy adult' but one of the ground team - equal to anyone else there! It was hard, dirty, smelly, and a blast!

Pylon · August 14, 2007, 02:51:48 PM

Quote from: ladyreferee on August 14, 2007, 02:50:57 PM
I second the comment about the 18+ cadets attending who are mature and high speed. I attended the Ground Team Leader's course and we had a few cadets and even one flight officer. Everyone who attended as an adult wanted to get as much out of the experience as possible. Our groups clicked, whether in the large group or the small teams. You don't get the childish 'I can't get along with so and so because....'. Because we worked so hard, I didn't feel like 'the stuffy adult' but one of the ground team - equal to anyone else there! It was hard, dirty, smelly, and a blast!

That does sound like fun!

SJFedor · August 14, 2007, 09:18:53 PM

Quote from: ladyreferee on August 14, 2007, 02:50:57 PM
I second the comment about the 18+ cadets attending who are mature and high speed. I attended the Ground Team Leader's course and we had a few cadets and even one flight officer. Everyone who attended as an adult wanted to get as much out of the experience as possible. Our groups clicked, whether in the large group or the small teams. You don't get the childish 'I can't get along with so and so because....'. Because we worked so hard, I didn't feel like 'the stuffy adult' but one of the ground team - equal to anyone else there! It was hard, dirty, smelly, and a blast!

Absolutely. The piddly drama (for the most part) ceases to exist when you have either the older, more mature cadets, or the senior officers as the primary players.

It goes from "So-and-so made out with so-and-so in the portapotty after lights out" to "Who's buying the next round?"

floridacyclist · August 14, 2007, 09:42:23 PM

I haven't been to Hawk itself yet (Only to Glades), but my kids tell me that the Officer students do most things the cadets do including PT and ropework; this makes sense because we did at Glades too. I know that when we have our local Ranger Training Weekends, I work the Officers just as hard because A) Someone has to be the leader, and B) The only way to gain the trust of a 17yo Ranger cadet is to train just as hard as he does. I'm looking forward to Hawk next year so I can work on my Advanced.

Stonewall · August 17, 2007, 03:27:32 AM

Should NESA really be considered a National Cadet Special Activity? It isn't exclusively for cadets. In fact, there are courses offered at NESA that are almost only attended by seniors.

Just curious. Should there be a new classification of activities? National Special Activity. Hey, maybe we can make a new ribbon... :angel:

JC004 · August 17, 2007, 05:07:10 AM

Quote from: Stonewall on August 17, 2007, 03:27:32 AM
Should NESA really be considered a National Cadet Special Activity? It isn't exclusively for cadets. In fact, there are courses offered at NESA that are almost only attended by seniors.

Just curious. Should there be a new classification of activities? National Special Activity. Hey, maybe we can make a new ribbon... :angel:

New ribbon?! ::runs screaming::

ladyreferee · August 20, 2007, 07:07:25 PM

Hmmm. Are there any other NCSAs where the cadet doesn't have to interview first before he/she can attend? I could be wrong but wasn't NESA started as just for cadets and it just has grown with more layers of classes? GTL didn't start until 3 or 4 years ago.

Stonewall · August 20, 2007, 07:12:09 PM

I didn't attend but I visited the first NGSAR (before NESA) when it was at the Miller School in Virginia back in 1996. I think it was '96. Anyway, it was only ground team member training. No barracks, a field chow trailer, and from what I remember (11 years ago), the only seniors there were staff.

Actually, after a quick search on the NESA website, I found a link to the first NGSAR. Yep, it was 2 weeks long and the entire 2 weeks was in your tent or temproary "hooch".

http://www.pbase.com/pathfindar/nesa1996

FYI: The Miller School is where they filmed the movie Major Payne.

SJFedor · August 21, 2007, 10:15:46 PM

Quote from: ladyreferee on August 20, 2007, 07:07:25 PM
Hmmm. Are there any other NCSAs where the cadet doesn't have to interview first before he/she can attend? I could be wrong but wasn't NESA started as just for cadets and it just has grown with more layers of classes? GTL didn't start until 3 or 4 years ago.

That's up to your individual wings. They have to rank cadet NCSA applicants to national, that's how they decide who goes. Most wings choose to do interviews to ensure they're sending the high speeds. In TN, however, the Wing Director slots them according to recommendations from the Group Cadet Prog Officer who usually knows the cadets and can speak for their character.

I personally think the interview process is a good idea. It gives the cadet opportunities to work on interview skills as an interviewee, allows the wing director to get face to face with who they're slotting for which activities, and usually gives the cadets at the interviews a good chance to co-mingle with one another. Lets say you have 2 cadets applying for 1 SUPT-FC slot (fictionally). They're both C/1st Lts, about the same time in CAP. One comes in with major uniform issues, ribbons out of order, hair out of reg, etc, and interviews poorly. The 2nd is the poster boy of what CAP cadets should be, high and tight hair, good attitude, spotless uniform. Wouldn't you, as the Wing director, want to send the best, most deserving cadet that will reflect positively upon the wing, and moreso, yourself?

Duke Dillio · August 22, 2007, 01:01:39 AM

I'm thinkin I might want to try Hawk sometime before I get too old. It's kindof a long flight though. I have heard some pretty good things about it and then some not so good things. Has anyone here ever been to the actual Hawk?

Stonewall · August 22, 2007, 03:08:06 AM

I only spent a long weekend at Winter Hawk and you can read about it

here: http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000086.html#000086

and

here: http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000087.html#000087

I was part of an "advanced" course and had a good time. I learned a little about the mountain and honed some skills, but to be honest, I mainly humped my CFP-90 up and down the mountain while staying the night somewhere on side of the mountain. It was fun and the instructor, Captain Gibbons, was awesome. A real professional and dedicated to the program. Truly one of the most professional Hawk types I've ever encountered. Not sure why he was so different.

Anyhoo, it may be fun for you, but of course, there is NESA. I'm considering NESA as a future activity for something other than Ground Operations. Maybe rekindle my observer skills or something. But I'm really hoping to get my hand in the Cadet Survival School out in California.

Duke Dillio · August 22, 2007, 05:30:45 AM

Hey, if you head to the Survival School, lemme know. I want the hook up too!!! *begins sharpening his huge Rambo style knife while turning the rabbit on the stake over the fire in his back yard, slowly humming the Marine Corps Hymn*

SJFedor · August 22, 2007, 11:49:51 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on August 22, 2007, 03:08:06 AM
I only spent a long weekend at Winter Hawk and you can read about it

here: http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000086.html#000086

and

here: http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000087.html#000087

I was part of an "advanced" course and had a good time. I learned a little about the mountain and honed some skills, but to be honest, I mainly humped my CFP-90 up and down the mountain while staying the night somewhere on side of the mountain. It was fun and the instructor, Captain Gibbons, was awesome. A real professional and dedicated to the program. Truly one of the most professional Hawk types I've ever encountered. Not sure why he was so different.

Anyhoo, it may be fun for you, but of course, there is NESA. I'm considering NESA as a future activity for something other than Ground Operations. Maybe rekindle my observer skills or something. But I'm really hoping to get my hand in the Cadet Survival School out in California.

And if you decide to come to NESA, let me know. I plan on being an instructor in the MAS for at least the next few years. It's a super fun time.

Stonewall · August 23, 2007, 12:03:01 AM

I was commandant of the advance NGSAR course in '99 and had a pretty good time. This time, I'd like to relax a little. Play the role of a senior member instead of a bush beating ground ops dude.

I am definately considering spending some time doing something worth while in CAP over the next couple years.

winterg · August 31, 2007, 07:52:43 PM

I have done NBB twice. In my 15 years in CAP it is probably one of the greatest experiences in CAP. As a TAC officer you are definitely more than a "cadet sitter". TACs are right there with their flights getting the job done and making sure it is done right. From Flightline duty, where the TAC walks a few miles per 2 1/2 shift) to crowd control (more walking) to working the ES shifts. On ES shifts, your flight is broken up to work the two towers and two mobile ES carts. This is golden duty for TACs since it is the one post you get to ride!

The days are extremely long and the weather is usually hot. And every year, at least one storm blows through. This year we spent two days soaked to the bone, but still did our job cheerfully!

The operational tempo is high, the days are very long, and the weather never cooperates. But NBB is a very rewarding experience which I highly reccomend for Officers as well as Cadets.

BBATW (Blue Beret All The Way)

flyguy06 · September 03, 2007, 06:19:06 PM

The events are called National Cadet Special Activities. Why should a Senior member have the same experiences? Then it wouldnt be a cadet activity. It waould be a CAP activity.

I used to be a cadet also, but sooner or later you have to move on. I know its hard but you gotta do it. When I became an officer in the army from being enlisted, I couldnt do the same things I did when I was enlisted eventhough I was used to them.