Honor Guard Academy and Regional Honor Academies

[Eaker Guy]

Then why isn't there a CAPR or CAPM for regulation of SDA's? The world is not perfect.

That is because CAPR 52-16 makes reference to CAPP 52-14:

Cadets' achievements in the Staff Duty Analysis program are measured through reports and staff service, as explained in 5-10b and 5-11b and in CAPP 52-14, Staff Duty Analysis Guide

Therefore, it is regulatory as CAPR 52-16 is making it regulatory.

Ok, I understand. By this logic, there should be a regulation that gives 52-8 some weight. I'll ty to find it.

Thanks!

[Fubar]

Did I miss something?  Did someone suggest we shut them down?

I don't remember saying that.

Just said from my point of view.....value added is not very high.

Having said I don't like the HGAs.....I would never dissuade one of my cadets from going if that is what they wanted to do.

My apologies for the hyperbole, I didn't mean to suggest anyone wanted the activities shuttered.

[DoubleSecret]

The "Honor Guard" salute is not IAW AFI 36-2203. AFI 36-2203 is the standard that we train to.

Re "the standard we train to":

If people would simply teach and enforce the established cadet program "by the book" and not invent their own amped-up programs and practices,  we'd have one CAP instead of a plethora of petty fiefdoms.

Just one example:  I recently encountered a rash of "by your leave, sir" from cadets in a different squadron, whose trainers somehow missed that the phrase is a Navy/USMC custom not practiced by the Air Force or Civil Air Patrol.  One day some of those cadets may interact with cadets, seniors, or Air Force personnel who were trained properly, and may be embarrassed when they bust out with that phrase and fail to impress.

[SarDragon]

Re: "by your leave:, I spent almost 21 years on AD in the Canoe Club, and used that phrase exactly twice. Both times were at the insistence of "legends in their own minds" Lieutenants, junior grade, in the dark, in somewhat inclement weather, as I was walking home on the base at Yokosuka. Schmucks.

[PA Guy]

The "Honor Guard" salute is not IAW AFI 36-2203. AFI 36-2203 is the standard that we train to.

Re "the standard we train to":

If people would simply teach and enforce the established cadet program "by the book" and not invent their own amped-up programs and practices,  we'd have one CAP instead of a plethora of petty fiefdoms.

Just one example:  I recently encountered a rash of "by your leave, sir" from cadets in a different squadron, whose trainers somehow missed that the phrase is a Navy/USMC custom not practiced by the Air Force or Civil Air Patrol.  One day some of those cadets may interact with cadets, seniors, or Air Force personnel who were trained properly, and may be embarrassed when they bust out with that phrase and fail to impress.

Yes, yes a thousand times yes. The problem is there are an increasing number of seniors who don't know the standard and can't be bothered to learn. They think their job is to just stand there and hold the cadet's hand's.

[Spam]

BITD ('90s) my second command was a unit in MDWG (St. Marys Comp Sqdn), and I had a number of cadets who participated in the seminal HGA under then-MAJ Jett Mayhew, whom I think very highly of for her efforts on that activity. That activity and the standard of care that they put into it was excellent in my opinion, given the very specific goals and guidelines of that program, plus the conditions of the national capital area environment. IF, and that's a big IF, the same standards can be adhered to with a Regional focus, I'd support it, yet having a staff diffused amongst numerous units, coupled with other factors has the potential to water down the program.

Now, I mentioned the "environment" up there... the ceremonial nature of so many events in the DC area may suit the generation and maintenance of a "critical mass" of honor guard cadre and students, but the week to week CP goals of most of the rest of the nation don't seem to do so (my opinion). If the nascent Region Honor Guard Academies were to shift their focus towards maintaining a very high quality standard for a subset of the entire HGA program that fit with regional needs (say: keeping a core business of training cadets how to do a Color Guard for common events such as funerals, parades, sports events, etc.) I would be full on in support. As is, I'm worried that in attempting to do all the elements, they will be defeated in detail on a Regional level.

So, it is in that context that I share the concern that we will see cadets (and adults) who will flock to get the bling for and come home from Regional HGA activities with the unusual trimmings (non standard salutes, attempts at cords and neck kerchiefs, et al) but without the appreciation for keeping those activity-specific items and practices segregated for use within an HG context. Mal-training, in short, for the day to day program.


V/R,
Spam